Real Loveless? Food for Thought!

Kevin Jones said:
So it seems there's more of a noticable difference in the feel of the knife than the look.

Great stuff.. :thumbup:
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The shape of the lugged guard on the Big Bear/Subhilt is a HUGE area of variation from maker to maker.

Not very much on a Loveless.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Doesn't this all beg the question: "Why not do your own thing?"

I am certainly not one of those morons that says something that's already been done is easy and presents no challenge. This could be quickly twarted by saying, "Go make a copy of the Sistine chapel."

Obviously guys like Mike Lovett are talented... to produce the knives that he is.

But why not use that talent to make your own mark... rather than trying to hit somebody else's mark???

Just wondering :)
 
NickWheeler said:
Doesn't this all beg the question: "Why not do your own thing?"

I am certainly not one of those morons that says something that's already been done is easy and presents no challenge. This could be quickly twarted by saying, "Go make a copy of the Sistine chapel."

Obviously guys like Mike Lovett are talented... to produce the knives that he is.

But why not use that talent to make your own mark... rather than trying to hit somebody else's mark???

Just wondering :)
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Extremely talented, interesting and fair question :confused:
 
Nick, this is a very fair question! And I have no Idea if my answer(which only fits my situation for me), will make any sense to you guys or not. But I will try. Nick, I just went to your site. I didn't see a single original idea there. Now before you get upset at me. let me say that that there is very little of practical value out there that hasn't been done in the cutlery world. You do fine work, and it isn't necessary for you to be a top level designer to make a good looking, quality product. Last time I looked at the market, just about every car out there had 4 tires and a steering wheel. But they all sell. Some are better made than others. Same with knives. If the quality is there. It will sell. In knives just as cars, I see a lot of styling cues. Does tis make the car perform better? Most times not. Except for in the market place. Same for most knives. This is what really set the Loveless knives apart. Bob was able to design knives around the need for them to be able to perform a function. And to fit the hand in an almost unreal way. A most talented designer, and maker! I to have been in the same boat as you for decades. As to making my mark, I've been making knives for a living for over 30 years. Ever heard of me? Probably not. I was never interested in being famous. I just wanted to make a good using knife, that would serve its user well. And a knife that the owner could take pride in. And a Knife that I could take pride in making. I never bothered advertising, or putting my pic's up for the Mag's to do an article. Nor did I join any organizations. All of which would have gotten out the Lovett name to the masses. I would have been much better known in the Knife collecting world. To this day, my wife and I can go to a Texas gun show, and see many knives by many makers represented there. Especially older knives. When I ask it thy have ever heard of Lovett Knives, ofter I hear back, Oh yes. I have a few, but I don't bring them out. They aren't for sale. Never will be. Well this makes me feel good, but again keeps my name out of circulation. I guess it is what it is. I have always had a Love for the Loveless knives. It was my love for them that got me into knife making in the first place. I have always leaned toward the Loveless philosophy of knife making. Every time I try to making something really different, It still has that Loveless influence to it. I guess it must be sub-conscious. Fast forward many years! When I finally got the opportunity to go out to the Loveless shop for the first time, naturally I carried a few Lovett Knives. Bob and Jim liked what they saw, but more importantly, why I was making them the way I was. We became friends, and as they say, the rest is History. I have made several thousand knives by now I'm sure. They all sold well, None have been returned. So I guess the customers have liked them. (Many repeat customers always feels good!). But is does get boring. I made the mark I wanted to make. Good product. Happy Customers. What more could I want? Now I make the Loveless Connection Knives. And I love doing it. It is hard enough to make good clean knives, but when you work to another's specs, you have to get into their head to really understand where you are going. If you want to make something more than a pale imitation, you really have your work cut out for you. You want to keep doing every thing your way. This is the natural way of things. To have to deep all the parameters of another artist, or maker in your mind as you work is a real challenge. I'm no longer bored. When Bob Loveless ask if I was really serious about keeping the Loveless knives alive, I was very honored. We came to an understanding. And the Lovett-Loveless knives were born. Bob, and Jim, just as we all, will not live forever. Bob wants to see his designs live on in some one that understand them. And the why of them. Jim feels the same way. How could I possible be more honored? To be reconigsed by the very person who's influence got me interested in hand made knives all those years ago. And to hear Jim say that I could walk into the Loveless shop and turn on the lights and make a Loveless Knife, with no one else there is the biggest compliment I have ever gotten. At least to me personaly. Make my mark? I would say that I have gone futher than I ever dared dream!!! There are hundreds of famous makers out there. So what? But just look at what I get to do!!! It just doesn't get any better than this. Mike
 
I will not read those posts until you start writing with paragraphs.
 
Joss said:
I will not read those posts until you start writing with paragraphs.
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Michael Lovett said:
Nick, this is a very fair question! And I have no Idea if my answer(which only fits my situation for me), will make any sense to you guys or not. But I will try.
Nick, I just went to your site. I didn't see a single original idea there. Now before you get upset at me. let me say that that there is very little of practical value out there that hasn't been done in the cutlery world. You do fine work, and it isn't necessary for you to be a top level designer to make a good looking, quality product.
Last time I looked at the market, just about every car out there had 4 tires and a steering wheel. But they all sell. Some are better made than others. Same with knives. If the quality is there. It will sell. In knives just as cars, I see a lot of styling cues. Does tis make the car perform better? Most times not. Except for in the market place. Same for most knives.
This is what really set the Loveless knives apart. Bob was able to design knives around the need for them to be able to perform a function. And to fit the hand in an almost unreal way. A most talented designer, and maker! I to have been in the same boat as you for decades.
As to making my mark, I've been making knives for a living for over 30 years. Ever heard of me? Probably not. I was never interested in being famous. I just wanted to make a good using knife, that would serve its user well. And a knife that the owner could take pride in. And a Knife that I could take pride in making. I never bothered advertising, or putting my pic's up for the Mag's to do an article. Nor did I join any organizations. All of which would have gotten out the Lovett name to the masses. I would have been much better known in the Knife collecting world.
To this day, my wife and I can go to a Texas gun show, and see many knives by many makers represented there. Especially older knives. When I ask it thy have ever heard of Lovett Knives, ofter I hear back, Oh yes. I have a few, but I don't bring them out. They aren't for sale. Never will be. Well this makes me feel good, but again keeps my name out of circulation. I guess it is what it is. I have always had a Love for the Loveless knives. It was my love for them that got me into knife making in the first place. I have always leaned toward the Loveless philosophy of knife making. Every time I try to making something really different, It still has that Loveless influence to it. I guess it must be sub-conscious.
Fast forward many years! When I finally got the opportunity to go out to the Loveless shop for the first time, naturally I carried a few Lovett Knives. Bob and Jim liked what they saw, but more importantly, why I was making them the way I was. We became friends, and as they say, the rest is History. I have made several thousand knives by now I'm sure. They all sold well, None have been returned. So I guess the customers have liked them. (Many repeat customers always feels good!). But is does get boring. I made the mark I wanted to make. Good product. Happy Customers. What more could I want?
Now I make the Loveless Connection Knives. And I love doing it. It is hard enough to make good clean knives, but when you work to another's specs, you have to get into their head to really understand where you are going. If you want to make something more than a pale imitation, you really have your work cut out for you. You want to keep doing every thing your way. This is the natural way of things. To have to deep all the parameters of another artist, or maker in your mind as you work is a real challenge. I'm no longer bored.
When Bob Loveless ask if I was really serious about keeping the Loveless knives alive, I was very honored. We came to an understanding. And the Lovett-Loveless knives were born. Bob, and Jim, just as we all, will not live forever. Bob wants to see his designs live on in some one that understand them. And the why of them. Jim feels the same way. How could I possible be more honored? To be reconigsed by the very person who's influence got me interested in hand made knives all those years ago. And to hear Jim say that I could walk into the Loveless shop and turn on the lights and make a Loveless Knife, with no one else there is the biggest compliment I have ever gotten. At least to me personaly.
Make my mark? I would say that I have gone futher than I ever dared dream!!! There are hundreds of famous makers out there. So what? But just look at what I get to do!!! It just doesn't get any better than this. Mike
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:)

Someone called me recently to challenge me to "branch out" and try to make some different handle designs for my Bowies. I think he wants me to make "ABS style" handles. I don't like a good share of the ABS handles. Just my opinion, but they don't look comfortable to me. Although I'm a smith, most of my designs are influenced by stock removers, like Loveless and Brend. Their handles are comfortable, and look good (To me. Others mileage may vary)
Also, there's already lot's of people making the kinds of knives he was advocating, and I want to do something different.
 
Good answer Mike to a Good question :thumbup:

Don't you just lovett when that happens?

Sorry Mike, I couldn't resist :D ;) But seriously, good answer.
 
Mike-

Thanks for your reply. :) (I have to agree it would be easier to read if you used your return key though :p ).

I think it boils down to a difference in opinion and personal drive at the end of the day. Just as much as you are driven to make an identical copy of Loveless's work because you love his designs, I am driven to draw out my own stuff and make it as clean as I can.

Not to get all defensive, but my web-site hasn't been updated for 3 years (MY fault) and is not a very good representation of my current work.

One of my Js test knives was a clay-hardened and polished 10" fighter with sculpted handle. There are only a handful of guys producing anything like that, and I take a great deal of pride in that fact.

I do think that Loveless designs are classic/timeless and if there's anybody you want to emulate his stuff would be a great choice.

One more disagreeing point ;) I see a vast and definitive difference between "original ideas" and "outright copies"

Onto some of the other points in the thread, I am curious where the templates and instructions are for these "ABS handles"

They must sell those at the same place they sell the "ABS knives."

There's no doubt that many makers in the ABS appreciate a bowie with oval guard, ferrule, and dropped handle... But to say they all look the same is silly to me.

I'm sure you can point at my work and lump it into that group. But I do not make a knife without sitting down and drawing it out first. I draw out what I like, reflecting my style and construction techniques.

A knife does not leave my shop if I don't feel it is extremely well balanced, ergonomically friendly, and super clean.

:)
 
BTW-

In case any of you thought I was picking on Mike, I'm not. I'd say he's got to be doing some of the best Loveless style work I've seen out there... super clean and crisp. :thumbup: :cool:

The question was just something I was wondering about, especially after reading this thread.
 
Thanks Nick, and every one. Nick, I too haven't changed anything on my site for years In fact, I shut it down because the fellow taking care of it charged me an arm and let to post a pic. The more up to date loveless Connection Knives can be seen at http://knifelegends.com/ The wright up under Featured Artist explains a lot of what The Loveless shop and I are doing. And why. There are also some beautiful Loveless Knives there. Check under archives on Loveless and Lovett as well. Joss, I'm very tired. My arms hurt, as do my shoulders and neck. Not to mention I have severe dyslexia. Knife making is very hard and dirty work. My computer will not allow me to make spaces for the paragraphs. Try to over look the fact that I'm a Knife maker and not a scholar. So stop whining! If I can go on here to try to answer a few question, you can stop being an uppity lazy prick and read the post. Just kidding. Do what you want! I will. Mike
 
LongRifle said:
This is not intended as a slight, however I was not aware that ergonomics could be appreciated based on sight.


Matt
Click to expand...

It can't entirely, of course, but I think sharp corners are less comfortable than curves, and that's something you can see...

BTW, my post was not meant as a slight, either, just an observation.
 
Michael Lovett said:
Joss, I'm very tired. My arms hurt, as do my shoulders and neck. Not to mention I have severe dyslexia. Knife making is very hard and dirty work. My computer will not allow me to make spaces for the paragraphs. Try to over look the fact that I'm a Knife maker and not a scholar. So stop whining! If I can go on here to try to answer a few question, you can stop being an uppity lazy prick and read the post. Just kidding. Do what you want! I will. Mike
Click to expand...


See, I can read that - this is a manageable length. :thumbup:

You call me an "uppity lazy prick". :thumbdn: I'm not going to go down to your level (and I don't care about the "just kidding", as this is just a cheap & easy way for you to throw insults without taking responsibility for them). I'll tell you that how you write & talk to people in a public forum doesn't go unnoticed. I'm sure you don't need my business, and that's great.

Knifemaking is a hard business, but to say that you're so tired that you cannot hit the return key when writing a 20 line paragraph is just taking us for absolute fools. As to being, or not, a scholar, that's not the issue. The issue is one of basic penmanship (middle school level), and more importantly politeness & respect for your readers. Your injurious and arrogant manners in this post and many others previously show that what you lack is not the basic penmanship part...
 
NickWheeler said:
Onto some of the other points in the thread, I am curious where the templates and instructions are for these "ABS handles"
Click to expand...

Who said anything about templates and instructions? I didn't. It's just a fact (ok, just to be safe, I'll say that it's just my opinion) that "many" (I never said "all") look "similar" (not identical).



They must sell those at the same place they sell the "ABS knives."
Click to expand...


I'm far from the first person to make these observations.... And I never used the words, "ABS knives". :)


There's no doubt that many makers in the ABS appreciate a bowie with oval guard, ferrule, and dropped handle... But to say they all look the same is silly to me.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they all look the same...


I'm sure you can point at my work and lump it into that group. But I do not make a knife without sitting down and drawing it out first. I draw out what I like, reflecting my style and construction techniques.
Click to expand...

Actually, Nick, I don't lump yours into that group. I like your work, it's different, and "looks comfortable". I've never seen one of yours in person, so I can only form an opinion based on the pictures I've seen.
In all honesty, I haven't examined very many knives with oval guards either, that's why I said in my original post "Just my opinion, but they don't look comfortable to me."

A knife does not leave my shop if I don't feel it is extremely well balanced, ergonomically friendly, and super clean.
Click to expand...

Excellent! Same here. Well, I try, and I'm still learning. ;)

:)[/quote]
 
Josh, my computer doesn't have a return key. my typewriter does! So rather than run me down, why not tell me the correct key to use. I'm not computer savvy. And in all seriousness, I do think your a prick. For what its worth, I'm in this thread to talk about Loveless Knives. Not you! So get the hell off my Ass! If you are not here to discuss the Loveless Knife, go somewhere else to cut people down. As far as I'm concerned you can go to hell. And I'll say the same to your face any time, any where. I don't need to hide behind anything or anyone . I was just joking with you. But now I'm dead serious. Your about to piss me off. Friggen jerk!
 
Michael Lovett said:
Josh, my computer doesn't have a return key. my typewriter does! So rather than run me down, why not tell me the correct key to use. I'm not computer savvy. And in all seriousness, I do think your a prick. For what its worth, I'm in this thread to talk about Loveless Knives. Not you! So get the hell off my Ass! If you are not here to discuss the Loveless Knife, go somewhere else to cut people down. As far as I'm concerned you can go to hell. And I'll say the same to your face any time, any where. I don't need to hide behind anything or anyone . I was just joking with you. But now I'm dead serious. Your about to piss me off. Friggen jerk!
Click to expand...

Lovely. You're coming across like one really nice guy.
 
Michael Lovett said:
Josh, my computer doesn't have a return key. my typewriter does! So rather than run me down, why not tell me the correct key to use. I'm not computer savvy. And in all seriousness, I do think your a prick. For what its worth, I'm in this thread to talk about Loveless Knives. Not you! So get the hell off my Ass! If you are not here to discuss the Loveless Knife, go somewhere else to cut people down. As far as I'm concerned you can go to hell. And I'll say the same to your face any time, any where. I don't need to hide behind anything or anyone . I was just joking with you. But now I'm dead serious. Your about to piss me off. Friggen jerk!
Click to expand...

The Enter key is what you're looking for. I usually hit it twice to put a blank line in between my paragraphs.:thumbup:
 
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