If it's Phil's child, they stop the war so the kid can go buy a crowbar.
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Reasonable Knife Evaluation
- Thread starter Phil Elmore
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If it's Phil's child, they stop the war so the kid can go buy a crowbar.
Nice points.
How is the view from the ditch?
The other TV commercial of hard use/abuse I recall was the Timex watch that was frozen in a chunk of ice yet "kept on ticking".
I might add a decent pen can also be used, in a pinch, as a wonderful tactical weapon to the eyes or neck of a canine or human.
Actually, I think the whole argument is moot. The Noss dude obviously has something to hide or fears retribution of some sort (or is on America's Most Wanted). Why he doesn't take off the stupid mask and lend some credibility to his actions is beyond me and detracts from what could be a useful service.
I understand Phil's desire to create a standard of sorts for testing, like putting the blades in a hydraulic bending machine, etc. and actually measuring forces and the like. But I do disagree with the liberal use of the term "abuse". Why does the Master Knifemakers' group demand in order to certify someone a Master, his/her knife must pass a 30 degree bend test. Surely, that standard is way beyond what any reasonable person would consider "normal" use.
Anyway, my 0.0228 cents worth (exchange). BTW the view from my side of the ditch is okay, if you can see past the freeking snow plows.
KW
_______________________________________________________
Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was considered a suspect.
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never could get this. his name and face don't change the weight of the hammer, the size of the 2x4s, or the color of the vice. It's all on video, what's lost, where's the smoke and mirrors that makes you think the knife didn't really break the way it was shown in motion? Is there a grassy knoll behind his air compressor?
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Hiding behind a mask removes any accountability he might otherwise face. A man who stands behind what he does stakes his real reputation on it.
Hi. My name is Phil Elmore. My phone number is 315.391.1626. I think that anonymous guy in the hockey mask is wrong and I think his videos are silly. Until he takes off the mask, that's all he'll ever be. But -- and this is important -- this thread is not about him. This thread and those who support him are mutually exclusive, in fact -- because this thread is about reasonable evaluation of a knife in context.
Hi. My name is Phil Elmore. My phone number is 315.391.1626. I think that anonymous guy in the hockey mask is wrong and I think his videos are silly. Until he takes off the mask, that's all he'll ever be. But -- and this is important -- this thread is not about him. This thread and those who support him are mutually exclusive, in fact -- because this thread is about reasonable evaluation of a knife in context.
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you conclude from a video can withstand some hammer blows and take some abuse, but if used for cutting a lot and he ain't much on sharpening, might be dull as heck when he really needs to cut something.
Or
Give him a knife that may not withstand as many hammer blows, but will hold an edge a lot longer or be more corrosion resistant (thus a better cutting tool when an emergency situation arises), versus the "tougher" knife.
It really all depends on what qualities (or really what mixture of qualities compared to cost) you think are most important.
I'd bet most soldiers, in dire emergencies, reach for their knife and want to cut something. fast. So do you want to maximize this quality, or sacrifice some of it to increase the abuse it could withstand? There are some knives that can do most of it pretty well, but they are not cheap. And if you do abuse any of them, you are going to have to spend some time sharpening it if you expect to be able to cut something with it in an emergency. To me the most important knife to have in a combat or survival situation is a sharp one that will be ready to cut when I need it.
What the whole thing boils down to is level of comfort. I personally have a trust issue dealing with someone who won't show me their face and eyes. Does this mean that what he is doing doesn't deserve some merit? No. Would I personally buy a knife from him, probably not. You obviously, have no issue with his disguise and give it no weight in terms of credibility...because it falls within your comfort level.
I'll bet, though, given enough time, I could find some sort of getup to have him dress up in that would make you uncomfortable with him as a person, but not necessarily the work he is doing. For example, if he shot those videos wearing a black neglige, or you saw him beat his kid on video, would you still be so objective? Food for thought.
KW
IMO, this thread and like most threads you start are about Sharp Phil, Inc. and using BladeForums to promote that venture...
your man in the hockey mask is merely competition for the side show.
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Did you really just give out your name and your phone # on a public access internet forum? Not a very sharp move in my opinion at all. I'd call that a self destructive test.
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It's the "in context" part that myself and many others here are trying to better understand, Phil. Would you be so kind as to specifically state what you mean when you say, "in context?" Do you mean "in context" with the type of work the manufacturer states the knife being reviewed was designed for and can handle, or do you mean "in context" with what you as the end line user deems is reasonable?
Would you be so kind as to pick a specific knife, any knife you want, and give your criteria for "reasonably evaluating" it? I figure that shouldn't be too arduous of a task, as you do online knife evaluations.
Thanks,
3G
Hockey mask aside, Noss's videos are a lot more interesting to me than yours.
I don't understand why you seem to feel the need to crusade against Noss. He is providing us information that would otherwise not be available to us. If weak minded people take it the wrong way it should not be your concern. If it doesn't apply to you and your knife use, then ignore it for the same reason I'd ignore a balisong review.
I don't plan to ever pound my knives through steel or concrete in real use, but I like seeing what would happen if I did. For example once I batoned a stainless Mora through an old street sign and the edge held up fine, which surprised me and made my expectations of the knife more realistic, seeing what it was capable of. A lot of things that make people cry "abuse," many knives are perfectly capable of doing, and unless we test tools to the limits how are we to we know their capabilities?
Or how about my own "destructive testing" I do with nearly all my EDC's. Grinding the edge thinner and thinner until it starts to chip out in normal use, then put on a microbevel on them and the edge is then optimized for my uses, offering me an extremely thin edge with superior cutting ability that remains stable. If I did not push the edge to it's limit, I would not know how thin to take it.
Likewise exploring the capability of different steels, grinds and heat treatments to take damage during harder uses is good to know. If I carry a long fixed blade, like a kuhkuri, I want to know it can be batoned through logs all day without any problems, and chop hard, knotty wood without chipping or bending at the edge. That's what I carry them for (Same with axes). Noss tests primarily fixed blades marketed as "tough" knives, so it's within proper context if you ask me, making this debate moot since it is reasonable to test the toughness of a knife marketed as such. I don't care how well the Chris Reeve GB slices cardboard, because I would use a super thin ZDP189 knife for that. I do care how tough it is compared to less expensive alternatives.
Yes, his methods could be made more consistent and so forth, but the notion that his videos are worthless because things aren't meticulously measured, or that the hockey mask has any worth in even being discussed in relation to the validity of his work, is ignorant.
His tests, or anyone elses, are not the end all be all of judging a knifes performance. Take it for what it's worth. If you want to see some toughness testing, you can read up on Cliff's or Noss's work for a start. Vassili and some others have done edge retention tests (Dog Of War did some I believe?). Many here have given their experience sharpening different steels with various equipment. I've personally explored how well various modern steels do at extremely acute edges. Read what applies to you and the knife you're looking to buy, that's all.
I don't understand why you seem to feel the need to crusade against Noss. He is providing us information that would otherwise not be available to us. If weak minded people take it the wrong way it should not be your concern. If it doesn't apply to you and your knife use, then ignore it for the same reason I'd ignore a balisong review.
I don't plan to ever pound my knives through steel or concrete in real use, but I like seeing what would happen if I did. For example once I batoned a stainless Mora through an old street sign and the edge held up fine, which surprised me and made my expectations of the knife more realistic, seeing what it was capable of. A lot of things that make people cry "abuse," many knives are perfectly capable of doing, and unless we test tools to the limits how are we to we know their capabilities?
Or how about my own "destructive testing" I do with nearly all my EDC's. Grinding the edge thinner and thinner until it starts to chip out in normal use, then put on a microbevel on them and the edge is then optimized for my uses, offering me an extremely thin edge with superior cutting ability that remains stable. If I did not push the edge to it's limit, I would not know how thin to take it.
Likewise exploring the capability of different steels, grinds and heat treatments to take damage during harder uses is good to know. If I carry a long fixed blade, like a kuhkuri, I want to know it can be batoned through logs all day without any problems, and chop hard, knotty wood without chipping or bending at the edge. That's what I carry them for (Same with axes). Noss tests primarily fixed blades marketed as "tough" knives, so it's within proper context if you ask me, making this debate moot since it is reasonable to test the toughness of a knife marketed as such. I don't care how well the Chris Reeve GB slices cardboard, because I would use a super thin ZDP189 knife for that. I do care how tough it is compared to less expensive alternatives.
Yes, his methods could be made more consistent and so forth, but the notion that his videos are worthless because things aren't meticulously measured, or that the hockey mask has any worth in even being discussed in relation to the validity of his work, is ignorant.
His tests, or anyone elses, are not the end all be all of judging a knifes performance. Take it for what it's worth. If you want to see some toughness testing, you can read up on Cliff's or Noss's work for a start. Vassili and some others have done edge retention tests (Dog Of War did some I believe?). Many here have given their experience sharpening different steels with various equipment. I've personally explored how well various modern steels do at extremely acute edges. Read what applies to you and the knife you're looking to buy, that's all.
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Who's we??? Aint no me in your we.
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:thumbup:
That's what I've been trying to express all along! This thread, in my opinion, is all about Phil's desire to personally define what "reasonable knife evaluation" is, and therein lies the problem. Anybody else see a contradiction there?
Regards,
3G
"I am the only one who knows how knives should be evaluated, and if you don't agree, you're being unreasonable, you're personally attacking me, and are a troll!"
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I will have to disagree with you there. The mono-uchi while the most important region of the blade for striking the target could be and was repaired regularly when a "chunk" was taken out, as long as it didnt go into the shin-gane or wasnt very large. Yes ashi and yo were used to lessen damage.
Dont unserstand the sarcasm though...perhaps you thought I insulted you or gave a shit....lol...Thats humor.
busselover
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That is perhaps the most reasonable thing in this whole thread....
I think most people would agree that destructive testing is not only reasonable but required for proper evaluation of the limits of a product marketed for extreme use. I have never heard anyone, except Sharp Phil, call destructive testing "abuse"....
I think it is blatantly clear to most why the one man war is being waged: Sharp Phil Inc.
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Then watch his videos and not mine. This thread need not concern you.
:thumbup:
That's what I've been trying to express all along! This thread, in my opinion, is all about Phil's desire to personally define what "reasonable knife evaluation" is, and therein lies the problem. Anybody else see a contradiction there?
When you have to resort to childishness of this type, you have lost before you begin. Your emotional issues are yours. They do not concern me.
The Answer to this for me is simple.
I would send my son with my fathers Geneva Forge MK 1, issued to him for his TOD in Europe during WWII, And then sent with my brother for his 2 TOD's in VIETNAM. This Great knife was used (not abused) quite well by both men in both theatre's of operation and even went into Cambodian territory at times. Both men knowing how to use their tools, and use them with respect and common sense, it is still a fine and sharp knife as it sits here with me today. I would have no problem taking this knife into a survival situation with me now, as it has been used as it was intended to be used.
MVF
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Thanks Vivi, well said!
See Phil, this testing stuff is really meant to help us learn things! If you never push something past it's limits, how do you ever find out what they are? (Remembering that we're not talking about just Noss's test, but destructive tests in general, so not liking his mask or the size of his hammer is not a valid argument)
I would really like to hear a response from you on this and not some remark about my emotions.
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You're not interested in a legitimate response.
I do.
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