Reasonable Knife Evaluation

[3Guardsmen]

:thumbup:
That's what I've been trying to express all along! This thread, in my opinion, is all about Phil's desire to personally define what "reasonable knife evaluation" is, and therein lies the problem. Anybody else see a contradiction there?

When you have to resort to childishness of this type, you have lost before you begin. Your emotional issues are yours. They do not concern me.

Notice how, when one states an opinion that contradicts Phil's, one is labeled as "childish" and having "emotional issues". Also take note at how, in addition to offering no proof to the contrary of my claim, the OP has specifically ignored very relevant questions (here's just one: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6364730&postcount=169) that are essential in helping people to be better able to understand his position. That is what one does when they simply cannot answer pertinent questions and cannot defend their position.

You're not interested in a legitimate response.

Please provide one for a change.

Regards,
3G

 

[Phil Elmore]

I do.

So you admit you're commenting on my video, but you haven't watched it? I suggest you try to be more informed in the future, before you interrupt others who have seen the material being discussed.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Notice how, when one states an opinion that contradicts Phil's, one is labeled as "childish" and having "emotional issues". Also take note at how, in addition to offering no proof to the contrary of my claim, the OP has specifically ignored very relevant questions (here's just one: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6364730&postcount=169 that are essential in helping people to be better able to understand his position. That is what one does when they simply cannot answer pertinent questions and cannot defend their position.

Regards,
3G

Notice how, whenever you post to this thread, you confine your comments to personal attacks and have nothing whatsoever to substantiate your opinions?

One gets the respect one offers.

 

[SPXTrader]

Actually, I think the whole argument is moot. The Noss dude obviously has something to hide or fears retribution of some sort (or is on America's Most Wanted). Why he doesn't take off the stupid mask and lend some credibility to his actions is beyond me and detracts from what could be a useful service.

I understand Phil's desire to create a standard of sorts for testing, like putting the blades in a hydraulic bending machine, etc. and actually measuring forces and the like. But I do disagree with the liberal use of the term "abuse". Why does the Master Knifemakers' group demand in order to certify someone a Master, his/her knife must pass a 30 degree bend test. Surely, that standard is way beyond what any reasonable person would consider "normal" use.

Anyway, my 0.0228 cents worth (exchange). BTW the view from my side of the ditch is okay, if you can see past the freeking snow plows.

KW

_______________________________________________________
Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was considered a suspect.

Other than Phil's OP, and my replies to date, that is the most intelligent thing said.

 

[Vivi]

So you admit you're commenting on my video, but you haven't watched it? I suggest you try to be more informed in the future, before you interrupt others who have seen the material being discussed.

I did watch the video in question, and a few others, and after seeing the one of you sitting in a parking lot ranting about Noss I couldn't take them seriously any more. I no longer view them, or the ones in Prac Tac.

The video spent four minutes saying what I'll say in two seconds, "Use a tool for it's intended purpose." Great, you're screwing screws with a screwdriver. That raises two questions:

1. People constantly use screwdrivers to pry and that is not their intended use, yet they handle it fine. How does this fit in to your view of the universe?

2. Noss has never, to my knowledge, tested a multitool. He has tested large fixed blades marketed as "tough knives" and "survival tools." Are you saying that it's 100% unrealistic that in a survival scenario one might need to baton wood, or hack through a car / plane to escape, or something else that you don't typically do in day to day life outside of survival scenarios? How then do you suggest such overbuilt knives that are clearly, as my last few years of testing shows, not intended for pure cutting and slicing of softer materials, be tested?

 

[Phil Elmore]

I did watch the video in question, and a few others, and after seeing the one of you sitting in a parking lot ranting about Noss I couldn't take them seriously any more. I no longer view them, or the ones in Prac Tac.

So you admit you were lying? That doesn't support your case very well, I'm afraid.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Notice how, whenever you post to this thread, you confine your comments to personal attacks and have nothing whatsoever to substantiate your opinions?

One gets the respect one offers.

Ever notice how you seem to perceive contradicting opinions to be "personal attacks", yet don't mind dishing out personal attacks in so doing? That is what is known as 'crying wolf', and it really takes away from your credibility. Heck, in another thread, you accused a member of making a "death threat" against you when he invited you to train with him and compare techniques:

Phil, any time you would like to train with me, I am open for a visit. You can practice your technique on an animate object. We can even take a cool YouTube video.

Making threats is silly and childish. It says you've lost the argument before you've begun.

You could post some of your own videos; that would be more productive than vague death threats. Oh, wait, you previously said you thought you might post some pictures but you didn't want to risk being criticized.

Yes, Phil, your arguments are firmly rooted in reality and reason.

3G

 

[ADD]

IMO, the use of the term ''reasonable" in the title acts to contrast (elevate) his testing methods to something with which he views with scorn.



... soon, if history repeats, some here will be put on "ignore" and the opening
poster will close the thread...

Before that happens, in the interest of disclosure, (and since I was put on this ignore list ) will somebody query Mr. Elmore if Sharp Phil Inc. is or has been compensated in any way by the companies whose knives he is reviewing here for thousands to view?

 

[Phil Elmore]

Ever notice how you seem to perceive contradicting opinions to be "personal attacks", yet don't mind dishing out personal attacks in so doing? That is what is known as 'crying wolf', and it really takes away from your credibility. Heck, in another thread, you accused a member of making a "death threat" against you when he invited you to train with him and compare techniques:



Yes, Phil, your arguments are firmly rooted in reality and reason.

3G

Actually, "crying wolf" would be repeatedly and nervously pressing your "report post" button, only to post to Service and Support when you don't get the attention you want, ultimately to find that nobody cares.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute to this thread? So far all you've done is make irrelevant personal attacks. It impresses no one, least of all me.

 

[Vivi]

So you admit you were lying? That doesn't support your case very well, I'm afraid.

It's only lying if you're drawing more conclusions than is rational from my post. I said, "I don't," then explained in my next post that means "I don't after having watched this one and a few others and making a judgment of their value to me." I did not lie, I did not contradict myself. "I don't" refers to the present, and has a distinct meaning from the quote "I have never viewed your videos."

I could of been more specific originally, but that you'd even wish to exchange words over something so petty that was explained a while ago, while ignoring the bulk of my statements and questions, says something about your agenda here. I.e., even if this specific argument of yours had merit, you're still ignoring the main content of my posts.

 

[MVF]

You're not interested in a legitimate response.

That's just weak.

 

[Phil Elmore]

No, that's just the truth.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Before that happens, in the interest of disclosure, (and since I was put on this ignore list ) will somebody query Mr. Elmore if Sharp Phil Inc. is or has been compensated in any way by the companies whose knives he is reviewing here for thousands to view?

Unfortunately, ADD, that is a direct and valid question. I doubt, however, that an answer would be forthcoming. Furthermore, the person asking would then be labeled a troll, an emotional wreck, and would be accused of personally attacking to whom the question was posed.

Regards,
3G

 

[Phil Elmore]

It's only lying if you're drawing more conclusions than is rational from my post. I said, "I don't," then explained in my next post that means "I don't after having watched this one and a few others and making a judgment of their value to me." I did not lie, I did not contradict myself. "I don't" refers to the present, and has a distinct meaning from the quote "I have never viewed your videos."

I could of been more specific originally, but that you'd even wish to exchange words over something so petty that was explained a while ago, while ignoring the bulk of my statements and questions, says something about your agenda here.

First you said you don't watch my videos and you watch his. Then you said, wait, you did watch my videos. Please, don't try to parse your way out of it. You didn't originally say, "Well, I used to, but..." You were lying to make a point, and I caught you at it.

As I've said, this thread is about reasonable knife evaluation. That and the cult of knife breaking are mutually exlusive.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Unfortunately, ADD, that is a direct and valid question. I doubt, however, that an answer would be forthcoming. Furthermore, the person asking would then be labeled a troll, an emotional wreck, and would be accused of personally attacking to whom the question was posed.

Regards,
3G

A point you are proving out right now.

 

[Vivi]

First you said you don't watch my videos and you watch his. Then you said, wait, you did watch my videos. Please, don't try to parse your way out of it. You didn't originally say, "Well, I used to, but..." You were lying to make a point, and I caught you at it.

As I've said, this thread is about reasonable knife evaluation. That and the cult of knife breaking are mutually exlusive.

I wasn't lying, and it was a minor point at best. I don't does not refer to the past, so there was no lying involved. If I say "I don't drink pop," it's true, because I don't. I have in the past though. It seriously does not get any simpler. As far as my memory can tell, this is the dumbest "discussion" I've had on this website, so I'm going to ignore anything else you have to say about my "lying" you "caught" me in.

I would, however, extend an invitation to you, again, to respond to my posts, in which I would have an earnest discussion with you, should to stop avoiding it.

 

[Phil Elmore]

When I look at your contributions to this thread, I do not see someone who wishes an earnest discussion. If I have misjudged you, that would, I suppose, be my loss.

 

[Vivi]

When I look at your contributions to this thread, I do not see someone who wishes an earnest discussion. If I have misjudged you, that would, I suppose, be my loss.

It might be easy for you to see things that way, considering you're concerned over my "lying" and have so far wholly ignored such paragraphs as the following:

Or how about my own "destructive testing" I do with nearly all my EDC's. Grinding the edge thinner and thinner until it starts to chip out in normal use, then put on a microbevel on them and the edge is then optimized for my uses, offering me an extremely thin edge with superior cutting ability that remains stable. If I did not push the edge to it's limit, I would not know how thin to take it.

Likewise exploring the capability of different steels, grinds and heat treatments to take damage during harder uses is good to know. If I carry a long fixed blade, like a kuhkuri, I want to know it can be batoned through logs all day without any problems, and chop hard, knotty wood without chipping or bending at the edge. That's what I carry them for (Same with axes). Noss tests primarily fixed blades marketed as "tough" knives, so it's within proper context if you ask me, making this debate moot since it is reasonable to test the toughness of a knife marketed as such. I don't care how well the Chris Reeve GB slices cardboard, because I would use a super thin ZDP189 knife for that. I do care how tough it is compared to less expensive alternatives.

When I look at your responses to me and others in this thread, I do not see someone who wishes an earnest discussion. If I have misjudged you, that would, I suppose, be my loss.

How about you start by explaining the proper context and usages to test a "tough survival knife" as you see it.

 

[Phil Elmore]

We all must accept responsibility for the tone of our posts. You will have to accept yours.

 

[Vivi]

We all must accept responsibility for the tone of our posts. You will have to accept yours.

So the "tone of my posts" makes them unworthy of a response? I guess we see who earnestly wants to discuss knives rather than the trivialities of personalities as interpreted by strangers on the internet.

I can accept that my tone might be abrasive to you.

I can't accept you calling yourself earnest and reasonable, while being unable to ignore such a minor aspect of what I wrote, then completely ignoring the main points involved.