Requesting Gareth Bull Shamwari Advice

[Lance Leon]

Decide to keep your money for non-shady makers*

 

[craytab]

Decide to keep your money for non-shady makers*

This. I don't get why people get upset at not being able to give their money over to someone with character issues.

 

[Victorian Squid]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

Personally, I don't get the hype train. Just like Holt Specters going for $8k on auction. In the end, it's just a nice $700 CNC production knife. You can dress it up, but it doesn't make it better. I'd rather own a Black Snow and an Efros and have beer and pizza for a year. I love Joe and Angie, but this irks me more about the community than most makers. Some guys take a month to build an incredible knife, and might sell it for $2-4k depending on materials. The Shamwari in the end is really just a $600-800 front flipper. Possibly one of the nicest actions out there, but that's it. I sold 2 of my shams, kept one (boomerang CF liner lock), and they've made me one with some gorgeous wood I gave Jason at Blade last year. Sadly, they've not been able to ship with the lockdown in effect. There's so many on the secondary though, I'm hard pressed to figure out why anybody would want a WE copy. Jason has an incredible knack for tuning knives, I don't see how it's possible - I sure haven't seen it yet.

Also remember, a lot of these guys will be hurting thanks to Blade moving. They count on the sales they'd make in a few days. Many have been making knives like crazy since fall, expecting to sell for top dollar at Blade. Even worse, they count on the materials, since customs screws them - if they can get the materials. That's why I (and friends) supply our maker friends with everything we can. I could go on and on with horror stories, but will spare you! If they cancel Blade in August - and TBH I have no idea why they did that instead of just telling people to go to Blade West in 2 months - a lot of these guys will be in trouble. Many already won't be able to make the new schedule. Plus, Blade East in August is 3 weeks away from the USN Gathering, and I can tell you which I'd rather be at.

3.3" Shamwari, gray mango wood, damascus collar and M390.

 

[rxavage]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

Personally, I don't get the hype train. Just like Holt Specters going for $8k on auction. In the end, it's just a nice $700 CNC production knife. You can dress it up, but it doesn't make it better. I'd rather own a Black Snow and an Efros and have beer and pizza for a year. I love Joe and Angie, but this irks me more about the community than most makers. Some guys take a month to build an incredible knife, and might sell it for $2-4k depending on materials. The Shamwari in the end is really just a $600-800 front flipper. Possibly one of the nicest actions out there, but that's it. I sold 2 of my shams, kept one (boomerang CF liner lock), and they've made me one with some gorgeous wood I gave Jason at Blade last year. Sadly, they've not been able to ship with the lockdown in effect. There's so many on the secondary though, I'm hard pressed to figure out why anybody would want a WE copy. Jason has an incredible knack for tuning knives, I don't see how it's possible - I sure haven't seen it yet.

Also remember, a lot of these guys will be hurting thanks to Blade moving. They count on the sales they'd make in a few days. Many have been making knives like crazy since fall, expecting to sell for top dollar at Blade. Even worse, they count on the materials, since customs screws them - if they can get the materials. That's why I (and friends) supply our maker friends with everything we can. I could go on and on with horror stories, but will spare you! If they cancel Blade in August - and TBH I have no idea why they did that instead of just telling people to go to Blade West in 2 months - a lot of these guys will be in trouble. Many already won't be able to make the new schedule. Plus, Blade East in August is 3 weeks away from the USN Gathering, and I can tell you which I'd rather be at.

3.3" Shamwari, gray mango wood, damascus collar and M390.

That’s a very pretty knife

 

[OMCHamlin]

Good news so far everyone! I was able to buy a shamwari second hand (admittedly at a pretty high price). I contacted Mr. Bull via Instagram messager to get it refinished and have another pivot and lock bar stop made and he responded very quickly and said it shouldn’t take more than a day of actual work and the shipping will be the only thing that will take some time. I will update here once it’s done if anyone is actually interested. It seems like he made some mistakes but is not overwhelmed anymore and wants to help all his customer. People make mistakes and we shall see if he has corrected his.

Okay, okay... truth? I mostly come to Blade Forum to cruise Feedback and watch this kind of stuff. It's like watching a digitized, remastered Hindenburg crash every visit. How can people be so mesmerized by a crap sack of a knife maker that they literally go into a zombie like trance over the notion of the opportunity to be literally raped by said "maker"? How can the mere act of gazing upon a custom knife render some people instantly lobotomized?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I have never dealt directly with the man, but I do like the Shamwari-very clean look to it. I seemed to be drawn to these makers of bad repute. Maybe something for my shrink to work out

 

[Lance Leon]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

Personally, I don't get the hype train. Just like Holt Specters going for $8k on auction. In the end, it's just a nice $700 CNC production knife. You can dress it up, but it doesn't make it better. I'd rather own a Black Snow and an Efros and have beer and pizza for a year. I love Joe and Angie, but this irks me more about the community than most makers. Some guys take a month to build an incredible knife, and might sell it for $2-4k depending on materials. The Shamwari in the end is really just a $600-800 front flipper. Possibly one of the nicest actions out there, but that's it. I sold 2 of my shams, kept one (boomerang CF liner lock), and they've made me one with some gorgeous wood I gave Jason at Blade last year. Sadly, they've not been able to ship with the lockdown in effect. There's so many on the secondary though, I'm hard pressed to figure out why anybody would want a WE copy. Jason has an incredible knack for tuning knives, I don't see how it's possible - I sure haven't seen it yet.

Also remember, a lot of these guys will be hurting thanks to Blade moving. They count on the sales they'd make in a few days. Many have been making knives like crazy since fall, expecting to sell for top dollar at Blade. Even worse, they count on the materials, since customs screws them - if they can get the materials. That's why I (and friends) supply our maker friends with everything we can. I could go on and on with horror stories, but will spare you! If they cancel Blade in August - and TBH I have no idea why they did that instead of just telling people to go to Blade West in 2 months - a lot of these guys will be in trouble. Many already won't be able to make the new schedule. Plus, Blade East in August is 3 weeks away from the USN Gathering, and I can tell you which I'd rather be at.

3.3" Shamwari, gray mango wood, damascus collar and M390.

I can forgive almost everything Bull has done in the past. The delays and build issues are understandable. Things happen, and it’s not an uncommon with custom makers. But I can’t excuse not communicating with buyers - at least tell them there will be a delay or change of plans and just not go dark for months. I personally don’t feel that a good knife makes up for bad experience with a maker. That said, you’re free to buy from whomever you please.

And Brian Nadeau didn’t give up on customs. He has been/still is making them. Just saying.

 

[Steven65]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

I have a close friend here in South Africa that has been waiting 8 years for a pre-paid knife.
This guy was a friend of Gareth's and helped him design and market his knives in the early days. Although Gareth has had repeated requests to rectify this matter he has never made this knife or refunded my friend.

When I saw Gareth (in person) at the Cape Knifemakers Guild Show in 2017 I specifically asked him to make our friend whole and he promised me unreservedly that he would.
To date.......no response, no contact, no attempt to rectify the matter.

Gareth saw me and many other South African's at the Blade Show last year. All he had to do was walk up to me and say
"Steve, please arrange to get this cash to our friend that I owe a knife to" or simply give me one of the knives off his table to deliver in compensation.
He did neither preferring to sell everything for cash and pocket it.

My friend is still out his knife and cash after 8 years.

As for the South African's forgiving him........Gareth has been thrown out of the Knifemakers Guild of South Africa for taking peoples money and not delivering knives. They will not have him back.

I do not know one single serious South African collector who owns his knives or wants them.
No-one I know will take a chance and order one for fear of either getting screwed in a prepayment scam or getting delivered some sub-standard piece of trash.
He only can sell his knives outside South Africa because of his local reputation.
Even well known International dealers who sell a lot of South African knives refuse to do business with him because of his reputation.

Eventually you, and apologists like you will come here to complain after you get screwed.
Then you will say........
"I supported him, how could he do this to me?? Please help me get my money back!"

You have been warned.

 

[Lance Leon]

I have a close friend here in South Africa that has been waiting 8 years for a pre-paid knife.
This guy was a friend of Gareth's and helped him design and market his knives in the early days. Although Gareth has had repeated requests to rectify this matter he has never made this knife or refunded my friend.

When I saw Gareth (in person) at the Cape Knifemakers Guild Show in 2017 I specifically asked him to make our friend whole and he promised me unreservedly that he would.
To date.......no response, no contact, no attempt to rectify the matter.

Gareth saw me and many other South African's at the Blade Show last year. All he had to do was walk up to me and say
"Steve, please arrange to get this cash to our friend that I owe a knife to" or simply give me one of the knives off his table to deliver in compensation.
He did neither preferring to sell everything for cash and pocket it.

My friend is still out his knife and cash after 8 years.

As for the South African's forgiving him........Gareth has been thrown out of the Knifemakers Guild of South Africa for taking peoples money and not delivering knives. They will not have him back.

I do not know one single serious South African collector who owns his knives or wants them.
No-one I know will take a chance and order one for fear of either getting screwed in a prepayment scam or getting delivered some sub-standard piece of trash.
He only can sell his knives outside South Africa because of his local reputation.
Even well known International dealers who sell a lot of South African knives refuse to do business with him because of his reputation.

Eventually you, and apologists like you will come here to complain after you get screwed.
Then you will say........
"I supported him, how could he do this to me?? Please help me get my money back!"

You have been warned.

Well that's a new one. 8 years is a lot harder to overlook than the ~2 years I'd heard about in the past.

 

[craytab]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid.

I can confidently say I never did this in my youth:

I have a close friend here in South Africa that has been waiting 8 years for a pre-paid knife.
This guy was a friend of Gareth's and helped him design and market his knives in the early days. Although Gareth has had repeated requests to rectify this matter he has never made this knife or refunded my friend.

When I saw Gareth (in person) at the Cape Knifemakers Guild Show in 2017 I specifically asked him to make our friend whole and he promised me unreservedly that he would.
To date.......no response, no contact, no attempt to rectify the matter.

Gareth saw me and many other South African's at the Blade Show last year. All he had to do was walk up to me and say
"Steve, please arrange to get this cash to our friend that I owe a knife to" or simply give me one of the knives off his table to deliver in compensation.
He did neither preferring to sell everything for cash and pocket it.

My friend is still out his knife and cash after 8 years.

As for the South African's forgiving him........Gareth has been thrown out of the Knifemakers Guild of South Africa for taking peoples money and not delivering knives. They will not have him back.

I do not know one single serious South African collector who owns his knives or wants them.
No-one I know will take a chance and order one for fear of either getting screwed in a prepayment scam or getting delivered some sub-standard piece of trash.
He only can sell his knives outside South Africa because of his local reputation.
Even well known International dealers who sell a lot of South African knives refuse to do business with him because of his reputation.

Eventually you, and apologists like you will come here to complain after you get screwed.
Then you will say........
"I supported him, how could he do this to me?? Please help me get my money back!"

You have been warned.

 

[braillediver]

The direct connection between a knife makers skill, craftsmanship, integrity and scruples are inseparable to me.

 

[Quiet]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

Personally, I don't get the hype train. Just like Holt Specters going for $8k on auction. In the end, it's just a nice $700 CNC production knife. You can dress it up, but it doesn't make it better. I'd rather own a Black Snow and an Efros and have beer and pizza for a year. I love Joe and Angie, but this irks me more about the community than most makers. Some guys take a month to build an incredible knife, and might sell it for $2-4k depending on materials. The Shamwari in the end is really just a $600-800 front flipper. Possibly one of the nicest actions out there, but that's it. I sold 2 of my shams, kept one (boomerang CF liner lock), and they've made me one with some gorgeous wood I gave Jason at Blade last year. Sadly, they've not been able to ship with the lockdown in effect. There's so many on the secondary though, I'm hard pressed to figure out why anybody would want a WE copy. Jason has an incredible knack for tuning knives, I don't see how it's possible - I sure haven't seen it yet.

Also remember, a lot of these guys will be hurting thanks to Blade moving. They count on the sales they'd make in a few days. Many have been making knives like crazy since fall, expecting to sell for top dollar at Blade. Even worse, they count on the materials, since customs screws them - if they can get the materials. That's why I (and friends) supply our maker friends with everything we can. I could go on and on with horror stories, but will spare you! If they cancel Blade in August - and TBH I have no idea why they did that instead of just telling people to go to Blade West in 2 months - a lot of these guys will be in trouble. Many already won't be able to make the new schedule. Plus, Blade East in August is 3 weeks away from the USN Gathering, and I can tell you which I'd rather be at.

3.3" Shamwari, gray mango wood, damascus collar and M390.

BLEEP BLEEP Defender Drone detected.

 

[Steven65]

As a result of my previous post Gareth e-mailed me yesterday telling me that he was going to contact my friend and resolve this.

He did and today he refunded him..........it only took 8 years.

I want to make it clear that this in no way absolves Gareth of his larcenous behaviour and I told him so in my reply. Frankly he should be ashamed that he essentially stole money from a friend only refunding him after 2900 days because of pressure brought to bear here on BF.

I have no ill will towards Gareth but his behaviour in the past speaks volumes.

I say it again............you have been warned.

 

[Punisher252]

I'm glad your friend finally got his money back. Gareth should also have sent him the knife as well as a refund after 8 years.
THAT would have been the right thing to do.

 

[utahsam]

Meh...people “grow up” at all different ages. If this is a turning point for Mr. Bull, it will take years of consistency but he can earn a better reputation through his actions.

 

[JohnWE]

First, tell me about how you've never done really stupid stuff when you were a kid. A lot of knife makers I know - and most creative types (myself included) do dumb stuff. Some just dumber than others. And not necessarily malicious. Yeah, I've heard it all. I also know Gareth and Jason, and am happy to cut them some slack. It's hard to run your own business when you've got no idea how, all the while still being a crazy kid. At least they've attempted to turn things around, do things "by the book" and fulfill agreements. Heck, they're almost timely now! A good friend just got his dress sham this last fall after 2 years. Either you deal with it or don't. There's plenty of makers out there who say "You're up, 2 weeks" and that's how it is.

If the rest of the SA community can forgive, I'd think you could as well. I've talked in my group about just why G & J would want to do a production knife, since the price difference isn't that great and it could eventually affect their own knives. All we can figure out is that they probably make more money lending their name out. Sort of like how Brian Nadeau gave up on making customs and went full Reate. I also can't think of an "in demand" production knife that had a seamless first launch. There's been quite a few that went just like this. I actually thought it was hysterical that it went exactly like one of their own drops. Just sit back and enjoy it, or wait to buy on the secondary. There will be plenty, rest assured. People will buy one because of the hype, then notice they've never used a front flipper, and don't like them.

Personally, I don't get the hype train. Just like Holt Specters going for $8k on auction. In the end, it's just a nice $700 CNC production knife. You can dress it up, but it doesn't make it better. I'd rather own a Black Snow and an Efros and have beer and pizza for a year. I love Joe and Angie, but this irks me more about the community than most makers. Some guys take a month to build an incredible knife, and might sell it for $2-4k depending on materials. The Shamwari in the end is really just a $600-800 front flipper. Possibly one of the nicest actions out there, but that's it. I sold 2 of my shams, kept one (boomerang CF liner lock), and they've made me one with some gorgeous wood I gave Jason at Blade last year. Sadly, they've not been able to ship with the lockdown in effect. There's so many on the secondary though, I'm hard pressed to figure out why anybody would want a WE copy. Jason has an incredible knack for tuning knives, I don't see how it's possible - I sure haven't seen it yet.

Also remember, a lot of these guys will be hurting thanks to Blade moving. They count on the sales they'd make in a few days. Many have been making knives like crazy since fall, expecting to sell for top dollar at Blade. Even worse, they count on the materials, since customs screws them - if they can get the materials. That's why I (and friends) supply our maker friends with everything we can. I could go on and on with horror stories, but will spare you! If they cancel Blade in August - and TBH I have no idea why they did that instead of just telling people to go to Blade West in 2 months - a lot of these guys will be in trouble. Many already won't be able to make the new schedule. Plus, Blade East in August is 3 weeks away from the USN Gathering, and I can tell you which I'd rather be at.

3.3" Shamwari, gray mango wood, damascus collar and M390.

EVERY thief has an apologist...every one of them.

 

[trebuh]

Hello !

A few years later, are there any new Shamwari equivalents (quality and aesthetics) ?

Thank you !

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Hello !

A few years later, are there any new Shamwari equivalents (quality and aesthetics) ?

Thank you !

Since this thread, i have owned a few shamwari knives, and consider them top notch(love the blade grind) but expensive(IMO). Other makers of at least equal quality front flippers that I have owned are Pena(USA) Trevor Burger(SA) and Steenkamp(SA). There are likely others, but I like the designs of those I mentioned.

 

[trebuh]

Thank you Peter !

Indeed, they offer beautiful models but I don't recognize the simplicity and elegance of the Shamwari.
So, i need a Sham ^^.

Could you tell me if drops are still only on Instagram ?
And which group should I join ?
(I'm not familiar with this site)

Thank you very much.
Hubert

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Thank you Peter !

Indeed, they offer beautiful models but I don't recognize the simplicity and elegance of the Shamwari.
So, i need a Sham ^^.

Could you tell me if drops are still only on Instagram ?
And which group should I join ?
(I'm not familiar with this site)

Thank you very much.
Hubert

All mine have come from the secondary market. I don't do fb & IG, so someone else will have to answer that.