Resinol 90C Stabilizing update

I have a set up with a 2.5 gallon paint pressure pot. The only down side that I think it has is its only rated to 80 psi. I think Toms setup sounds pretty good.
 
Do you think that a week is nessasary for total penetration of the wood or is that just what you did? I was just wondering if anyone had done any tests as far as rate at which this stuff penetrates? If this stuff glows under Blacklight you could take out a piece each day and do a test cut hold it under the blacklight to gauge actual penetration. Or would you have to cure it before it will glow under the blacklight? I'm glad Tom and others are passing on what they know about this. While its not for everyone( some just won't go to these lenghts for the small amount of wood which they need) I think its a fasinating process.
 
My tank is built pretty much like Tom's. I use a single vacum/pressure port with a dual guage. One thing that is different is that my liquid feeds from the lid down a tube into a separate resin tank inside my chamber.
I use left over plastic ice cream buckets to actually hold my resin in my tank. This keeps cleanup and cross contamination of dyes from being a problem.
the amount of resin that covers the wood in the bucket outside the tank is what is required inside the tank, with a little kicker for absorption.
I leave mine a week under vacum and a week under pressure. May be overkill but what the hell.
Will try the anilyne dies. More time consumeing experiments.
the quest goes on. mw
 
MW, what types of dyes have you tried so far? what were the results or lack thereof? I also was told to try the aniline dyes by Harry Jensen. He said he prefered the natural look so he never dyed any of his batches, but thought aniline dyes would work. I cant wait to order some of this and start experimenting.
 
I'm using a 1 gal pickle jar and a vessel in side and pulling
about 27 inches I wouldn't recommend glass to you guys though
I'm an accident waiting to happen, :eek:

I have not used pressure yet but I've been thinking about using a pressure cooker to do this for the vacuum and pressure.

do any of you know what the valve on these pop off at?:confused:

before everyone goes to e-bay to get one :(
let me get mine first:D
 
Originally posted by JDSto
MW, what types of dyes have you tried so far? what were the results or lack thereof? I also was told to try the aniline dyes by Harry Jensen. He said he prefered the natural look so he never dyed any of his batches, but thought aniline dyes would work. I cant wait to order some of this and start experimenting.
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JD; I have used Feibrings dye, potassium permanganate, chromic trioxide, strong coffee, and strong tea.
I am very picky about the colors that I am looking for in maple. Looking for that old look of browns and reds with gold highlights. Can get it by staining and finishing but not with stabilization. I get good outside coloration but not the same intensity completely through the block. Looking forward to trying some of these new suggestions. mike
 
How long to leave the wood under dry vacuum then vacuum with resin and then pressure?
I really don't know. I would like to hear someone elses experience in this matter.
The suggestion to have a plastic container inside the pressure chamber is a good one. I intend to start doing it that way.
This forum is really valuable as far as sharing information and learning. I really don't know how I got along before PCs. Tom Lewis
 
Tom,I have tried it several ways. 48 hours of dry vacuum seems to give me better results. One of the keys I think is really dry wood.I also have better luck with warm wood. I put my chamber out in the sun during the day. It gets hot enough you have to have gloves to handle it. But, I live in a very humid area; not a problem for you. I can put a piece of wood in a glass jar, pull a vacuum and leave in the sun for a day or two and moisture will form on the inside of the glass.
I work with vacuum/pressure impregnation dailey. Just not with wood, or colors. Our tank here at the shop has about a 400 gal. capacity up to four feet in diameter. For large electric motors.
Let me know how the dye works and post a picture if you get some good colors. I will do the same. mike
 
I think why your results dying the wood vary is because the wood grain density varies. so therefore the uptake of the dye would vary.Evenly grained woods would be the easiest while burled woods would be the hardest. I would be willing to bet that most of us will be trying to stabilize and dye these highly figured and burled woods. So I guess we will have our work cut out for us. I wonder if different colors will have their own penetration rates or if they will be similar. I wish I would have listened more closely to that physics class now.:confused: Good discussion at any rate lets keep it going. :D
 
Just a thought on the dying process. Has anybody tried thinning the dye to the proper color and putting the wood and thinned dye in a vacuum? The reason I suggest thinning the dye is to make sure that it does not take too much in the vacuum. Perhaps this would dye the wood the color you want all the way through. You might then "cook" it to dry it out and then stabilize as you have suggested.

Don't know if it will work, but if there is no danger or down-side it might be a possibility. I'd like to see Mike Williams keep that color on his maple handles! I don't know how he does it but they are the best looking maple handles I've ever seen.

Jeff
 
hey Jeff;
I have been using the dye cycle separate before stabilizing but in the same vacuum/pressure process trying to get even penetration. so far it has been inconsistant at best.
Why the dye weakens in colors in the center of the wood I haven't figured out yet.
The black light idea I am gonna try. I have a labratory grade light that I have been trying to figure out a use for.
mike
 
Originally posted by m l williams

Why the dye weakens in colors in the center of the wood I haven't figured out yet.

mike
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the wood grain is filtering the color out I'd say
 
Guess what arrived at the house yesterday.:D :D I may have my own insight to add soon.
 
MW,
m l williams said:
Why the dye weakens in colors in the center of the wood I haven't figured out yet.
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As Dan mentioned, it is getting filtered out. The inner wood isn't in contact with the dye as long as the outer wood is, therefore lighter.

There are a few of things I's recommend. Alcohol soluble dyes only to get maximum penetration, and alcohol will be easier to remove from the board prior to stabilization. Make sure it is dye, and not a pigment, as a pigment will only partially penetrate.

Make the boards as close to final using size as feasible to get the thickness that has to be penetrated down (no trying to stablize or dye a board that is 4 inches thick - unless it's really porus...). On pieces that are going to become through tang handles, how about predrilling them (a little undersized)?

No sanding the boards. You don't need the grain filled with grit. Freshly scraped, planed, or saw cut is better, as the grain will then be as open as it's going to get.

The closer the grain, the longer it will take to fully penetrate. Maple is one of those. Now, if you're doing red oak, it can be done in minutes, as it's just like a big straw, and readily sucks up whatever gets near the end-grain...

Now if I didn't have to go out and buy Resinol 90 four gallons at a time, it sure would be nice...

Howard
 
Hi,

I am now offering Resinol 90C on my website in two sizes. Obviously the prices I've seen mentioned here are wholesale pricing and I am selling this at a fair retail price.

You can find out more information or purchase it directly here: http://www.ironwoodknives.com

1 - Quart $35
1 - Gallon $125

Sincerely,
JNR
 
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holy from the dead thread Fred

and as much as i like the thought i think this one will get caned as spam or at the least you ll need a paid membership to post stuff for sale

like i said looks cool but i bet it doesn't make morning til you get an email about it (no im not a mod)
 
Tom Lewis said:
From what I have learned as long as the 90C is kept refigerated it will last indefinately. How long it will last if not refigerated, I don't know. We have two refigerators so keeping it refigerated is not a problem for me. ( I wish I had spell checker for this post)
Tom Lewis
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If you type your thread in a email spell check it then copy and paste it here,works well.

Richard
 
All,

Just to let you know that we have researched all the vacuum/pressure solutions for impregnation of Resinol and any other stabilization solutions and whereas most vacuum pumps alone run over $200 when you add large chambers you are talking about thousands of dollars, which just is not feasible for most knife makers. So we did our own research into alternative solutions and came up with a solution which met the criteria of being relatively inexpensive and simple to setup & operate.

It features the Henkel/Loctite recommended Dry Vacuum/Pressure impregnation system which is a dual chamber system and keeps the Resinol or any other liquid in a seperate chamber, and through the vacuum draws the Resinol into the vacuum chamber where the wood resides. It can then be left at vacuum as long as you like and the process can then be reversed and pressure applied to the chamber which will then fill any remaining air within the wood pores with the Resinol solution and the pressure can be left at any level you require for any length of time you require.

Resinol Impregnation System utilizing the Dry Vacuum/Pressure (DVP) system recommended as the best by Henkel/LoctiteThe Dry Vacuum/Pressure (DVP) Inpregnation System from Ironwoood Knives -

The system includes the following items with which to create a 100% complete dry vacuum/pressure system:
  • Vacuum Chamber Flask 5000ml w/ 2" Mouth Opening x 1
  • Resinol Storage Tank Flask 2000ml x 1
  • 7mm Borosilicate Tubing x 2
  • 8mm Stopcock x 2
  • Check Valve, Non-Return x 1
  • Black Stopper x 2
  • MityVac Selectline Vacuum/Pressure Pump w/Gauge x 1
  • Hydro Aspirator x 1









Currently the DVP System we have for sale will handle up to a 2" piece of wood however, we are working to add a system which will handle pieces of up to 6", the problem is finding a chamber with a wide enough opening without breaking the bank so as to keep it economical for our customers. There are plenty of professional Vacuum Chamber systems around but they will cost you $3,000 and up depending on the size of the chamber, this is not feasible for most knife makers hence our effort to create a simple, economical solution to a complex problem. The Complete System sells for only $350 which is less than most professional vacuum pumps alone!

You can find both Resinol and The Complete DVP System here: (link removed do to political reasons, if interested please email me instead at sales@ironwoodknives.com)


 
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Can you advise what kind of wood you are using for your testing? Anyone can stabilize dry maple (well, almost anyone), but cedar, redwood, thuya, blackwood, take something more.

I'd really like to see a workable system, but it would have to have some repeatable empirical results. I know a lot of places that have sprung big bucks for the professional MMA system - and still had only marginal results. Obviously, this system has the advatage of buying 4 (or 1 Gals) of stabilant instead of a 50 gal drum. That is HUGE. :thumbup: Has it been tested for hardness, penetration, shelf life, resistance to heat when sanding, ..... you get the idea.

Yes, this is a very old thread, but that shows tenacity. Hope it leads somewhere.

Rob!
 
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