Respect for this forum.

[unky_gumbi]

Please do not take offence.... but a Basic Membership at $10/year shouldn't be a matter of whether or not you can afford it... but rather, if you feel it is worthy of support.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to spend $10 on an endless resource for something that I love to do. Not to mention all the great folks I have met here(and Sam, too). That's 83cents/month... I lose more change than that in my couch every year.:thumbup:

Yes Rick for what one can learn here, $10 is a drop in the bucket. I started with a Gold membership because I got hours of entertainment and knowledge from the forum as a whole, then I stumbled into this part of the forum and couldn't believe how much knowledge sharing goes on in here, all free of charge. I upgraded to a knifemaker membership not because I think I am one (the wannabe thing is being honest), but because I felt it was worth supporting the forum at this level, and the knifemaker membership shows why I want to support the forum. If for some reason I can't swing the money to maintain my current membership level I would scrape up the $10 for a basic at least.

 

[Drew Riley]

I definitely see where Frank is coming from. To me (soley regarding what was covered in the first post). the biggest problem isn't so much that so many new makers are asking the same basic elementary questions, but more so the tendency for EVERYONE to want to give an answer or opinion on things they know little or nothing about.
The area I probably cringe most about is heat treating, but I'm not going to get into that here.

Now that being said, I think the BIGGEST downfall to this forum is not too many "foolish" questions (or even answers), but continually allowing and entertaining those whose posts and threads are 99% just downright foolish, and were created for nothing else than to insight arguments and anger.

The ignore button is a great feature for instances where one or two people (or even a group of people) have problems with each other or continual indifferences. But when it's readily apparent that a member has created an account for the sole purpose of trolling the community, the ignore button just doesn't cut it.

Thankfully, it appears that one such member who continually monkeyed around finally got the appropriate response from the moderators, and I think this forum will be a noticeably better place because of it.

 

[Drew Riley]

"heat to 1476.8 then soak for 3 minutes 39 seconds in your heat treat oven for every millimeter of thickness then quench in parks #50 that is gheated to 127.3 degrees and hold quench for 11.421 seconds or until temperature of knife blade is 924.43 degrees. Remove from quench and shake it 3 times to the west, 2 times to the north and twirl it 4 revolutions facing east".

first of all, it's 3 mins and 29 seconds per millimeter, and lastly, it's only 3 revolutions while facing east. Let's not be dramatic here....

 

[Frank Niro]

Well, I did read it all and I admit to the fact I can forget about the "ignore button". Perhaps it's because like many of the older group, I was self taught. And when you are a learner like I am whatever I learned was very slow in coming. Now you come here and the answers pop up in minute. I don't get upset that one person or several may disagree with my points of view or way of doing something. What upsets me is to see all these fine makers treated like they are just some sort of machine that you ask and they must respond. If they don't get the answer or one they don't like well, just keep on asking. I feel the need to tell them to "shut down" but don't. I guess for me that's where I use up my "ignore button" time . I must learn to be more forgiving and understanding. Yes Stacy, you did say it all a few days ago,and you are a moderator. Seems like some didn't even wait for the wind to blow the "smoke" away. For them it's a "why should I read that stuff?"
I guess the need to know right now is the thing of the day. If you answer well okay, if you don't, someone else will . That's the way this works isn't it?
I love this forum !!! The people here are good people who share freely and willingly. I've learned all sorts of good stuff that I've used. I just figure a little common ordinary respect for them is their due. Frank

 

[Stag & Steel]

I like it here because there are many people here with the same sickness that I have, an incurable need to make knives. I learned a long time ago, self taught and in many, many ways self taught wrong if analysed by other makers here, but that is how I do it. At the end of the day, however I get there, I make knives and dang good ones by mine and others as wells standards. I read some of the responses to questions with a myrid of diverse answers and see that there truly are many ways to get to that completed knife. Aside from proper heattreat of the particular steel, it does not matter how you did it. One may use a 4" angle grinder, one a 2 X 72 another a hatchet....you get my meaning....none wrong really, just different. I have been making for 25 years and I still learn tips and tricks here and am the better for it. I do get a kick out of some of the noobs (to knifemaking, not the site) with their willingness to tell someone how to do something and I think to myself, good go try that and see how it works for you....that's how I learned, by many screwups I didn't want to repeat. Had there been this site when I started, I would have been a real knifemaker much faster....well if I could have afforded a computer and had half my house at the time set aside to house it in I do see some folks getting pissy because someone else does something different than they do it and that is too bad, if it is truly a bad way to do it, they'll figure out it dosen't work eventually. I had to leave knifemaking for a few years for for personal reasons and I tried to stay on this site because it pleased me to belong to such a great bunch of guys, but I got so depressed because I couldn't make knives, I just quit coming here to help ease that pain....out of site, out of mind. I am glad to be back and hope to make new friends as well as renew friendships. I make joking remarks every once in awhile when I see something funny in a thread, but mean no harm...just trying to be friendly. I am not well known here but if I keep posting and try to be helpful and friendly, you all will get to where you recognise my name and hopefully are glad I am a part of this great forum. I know sometimes with some type of folks there is no other way out but to ban them, but for as many people as there are on this site, that really isn't that large of number and the mods seem to do a great job of caring for this site. Assumed emotions seem to pop up on the internet... I wish there was a hard fast rule that you have to tell someone that you are pissed or being a smart a$$ and that they can't just assume it.....that would solve many problems, but won't happen. I have to work real hard at not assigning emotions to responses or lack of responses...and I fail sometimes. Being opinionated is not neccasarily bad as long as you let others be opinionated as well. There has been a great deal of good advice on this thread for noobs and the rest as well. I just stay focused on that next knife I'm going to make and hope it is as good if not better than the last.

 

[Bruce Bump]

this makes good sense. Well said.

I run an airgun forum and it is a rough an tumble speak your mind type of place where there is a ton of information but if you act like a Asshat you will get dogpiled into submission. It does not have a lot of rules but does have one I enforce....."If a question is asked you can do one of 3 things 1. Answer the question 2. Ignore the question 3. Post a link to the answer the question" But never scold or complain about the question being asked. Not every post or thread needs to meet the approval of certain members.

New members are the life blood of a forum and provides growth, discussion and interest. If a forum is mainly a place for Old Timers to hang out and socialize the forum will wither and come to a crawl because you have already said everything there is to be said.

If a newbie asks a question no one wants to answer then on a busy forum like this one it rolls off the first page in a day.

Think of it this way. When you go to church they do not say "Stop asking about Jesus, just read the bible, we have answered and discussed this topic a thousand times" People at church are excited to discuss religion because they like to share the good news to poor lost souls

 

[chainring]

this makes good sense. Well said.

Ditto.

 

[ERIK KNIVES]

+1 Avgil and Bruce.

Online text is one of the worst forms of communication; messages can be mis-interpreted and feelings or ego's can be hurt. People can be frustrated and leave this forum. Good bye. I'm sorry the community no further met your needs. Expectations are planned disappointments and if some new guy is pissing you off, too bad. Without most of the new blood, the old blood doesn't mean anything. It's like when the younger generations forget history. It hurts everybody. Use the ignore function if someone gets your goat.

But, this is still a community and it exists because it does more good than bad. Way more. I'm sure I've offended some as new and all with my advice - but it's from my experience. I don't chime in when I know nothing. I've done my best to be a valuable member. Take and give. I even ponied up the $50 before my time as a maker because I want to support the good this forum does and how I have benefited from it. I'm not selling a damn thing.

I'm pretty conservative, but I'm also pretty libertarian. Mean comments are not good and should not be tolerated by the community. We don't need a law about it. I would not have banned BMK, he had a value, it was just covered in controversy. The controversy was his fault.

I've been very complimentary in the past to those who have helped me, and truly appreciative. I make a good knife today thanks to them and hope to make a really good one before I die.

Thank you blade forums and the online friends I have met because of you. This is not a rant, I'm just in a blunt mood and every other member seems to have kicked in here. Ha.

EA

 

[james terrio]

In all honesty, I'm pretty sure I would have never completed a knife from raw barstock to finished product, if it weren't for the unselfish mentors here in Shop Talk. After several years of study and struggle, I've found my calling and am making a big chunk of my living with my knives. There is no end in sight as to how much I have to learn, and that excites me. I find a certain quiet joy in sharing what I've learned, whenever I can. I call baloney when I see it, but honestly that doesn't happen as often as it might seem. I do my best on every project and I don't think I'll ever be 100% satisfied in my work... there is always room for improvement.

That's my way of showing respect and gratitude. I thank you all for your advice and guidance.

 

[dms p.a.w.]

All I can say is please don't go anywhere. I believe I have read a post for every question I have had, and only posted when my caveman computer skills have failed me. Without you guys I would still be making those knife shaped objects. Some of us are truly thankful of everything you guys do here, but we still sometimes ask stupid questions out of our own ignorance. I think I can speak for alot of newbies when I say that this is the most instructive, and helpful site on the web.

 

[RyanW]

I started making knives because of people that inspired me on this forum, most of those makers are not very active or vocal. They keep their head to the grind and put out amazing knives. I am grateful to the ones that do share knowledge here, when I run into a problem along the way I know I have a brain trust that I can reach out to for answers. I would say that 100% of what you need to know to make a quality knife is already here. Fortunately and Unfortunately we are dealing with individuals with personalities. Not everyone is familiar with online forums or even computer savvy which makes navigating BF difficult. The amount of information is overwhelming here.

I try to treat encounters in this forum like I do in life, if I don't agree or like something I avoid it. I sometimes find myself enjoying the wreckage as I drive by and even get caught up in the carnage. This is where the forum suffers due to its members. I have been working on moving on the the positive stuff as well as only give positive feedback.

 

[Tai Goo]

I would not have banned BMK, he had a value, it was just covered in controversy.

Agreed.

He had a twisted sense of humor which was very misunderstood. That's all. I think many of us acted like school yard bullies.

Too Bad.

 

[Tai Goo]

I think the respect thing should work both ways. We should also show some respect for the noobs and try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[tryppyr]

Agreed.

He had a twisted sense of humor which was very misunderstood. That's all. I think many of us acted like school yard bullies.

Too Bad.

I wouldn't say that's all there was to it.

 

[Drew Riley]

I wouldn't say that's all there was to it.

I agree.

While I think many of his threads and posts did come from a twisted sense of humor that was indeed misunderstood, I think just as many, if not most, were simply created to stir the hornets nest.
Many of them became downright rude and disrespectful, and ultimately led to the closing/locking of thread after thread after thread.

 

[sunshadow]

I agree.

While I think many of his threads and posts did come from a twisted sense of humor that was indeed misunderstood, I think just as many, if not most, were simply created to stir the hornets nest.
Many of them became downright rude and disrespectful, and ultimately led to the closing/locking of thread after thread after thread.

Troll. Pure and simple. I think the only sense of humor he displayed was playing Abbot to Tai's Costello. Most of his presence here was kicking the hornet's nest and throwing it at someone, or trying to sell something outside of the selling forums. Good riddance!

-Page

 

[AVigil]

I met Tai Goo over 20 years ago at a couple knife shows. I have tremendous respect for him and his work. I do not think he is anyone's "Costello".

 

[Tai Goo]

Inflammatory remarks usually lead to more inflammatory remarks, and escalation. Where it starts and where it ends we may never know. I’m pretty sure of this though,… if a group of people want to create a troll and then use him as a scapegoat, they usually can,… unless that person just leaves the forum on his own.

Conventional thinking does rule the board, but it’s not always for everyone. It takes all kinds to make this art/craft/science what it is. We need the “outside the box” guys just as much as we need the “inside the box” guys… noobs and old timers… that’s how we all learn.

We need to embrace our differences and our diversity, and be thankful we’re not all the same.

 

[1066vik]

"heat to 1476.8 then soak for 3 minutes 39 seconds in your Heat Treat Oven for every millimeter of thickness then quench in Parks #50 that is heated to 127.3 degrees and hold quench for 11.421 seconds or until temperature of knife blade is 924.43 degrees. Remove from quench and shake it 3 times to the West, 2 times to the North and twirl it 4 revolutions facing East".

first of all, it's 3 mins and 29 seconds per millimeter, and lastly, it's only 3 revolutions while facing east. Let's not be dramatic here....

My heat treat oven says Magic Chef on the front -- is this farenheit or centigrade and am I supposed to twirl clockwise or widdershins, overhead, to the side, or in front?

 

[12345678910]

Troll. Pure and simple.

Most of his presence here was kicking the hornet's nest and throwing it at someone, or trying to sell something outside of the selling forums.

I agree

Part of what you read above is not well received among some in the knifemaking community. My opinion that knifemaking is relatively simple is offensive to some. The reason some find my opinion so repulsive, though no one will admit it; is that it somehow dimishes what they do and undermines the arcane nature of knifemaking that some have created. Simplicity is antithetical to self-aggrandizing false idols and their sycophants.

Sadly, the internet is the ideal environment for Bush Monkey Derangement Syndrome (BMDS) to flourish. I encourage you to Google "BMK Bladeforums" where you can read what some of your favorite and most prominent (groupthinking) knife makers had to say about how Bush Monkey Knives, me and my military service, are abject frauds. Look at my work, educate yourself, and make an independent and informed decision to purchase or not purchase a Bush Monkey knife.

In this quote from his website, you can see he chooses to "be different" as a marketing strategy.

He disputes being called a fraud, yet I don't believe he ever answered a question in a forthright, truthful way that would be consistent with a man, military officer, or knifemaker.
That sort of double talk really puts me on guard.
He didn't even produce his own name (yes I see the irony- But I am selling nothing here)
With the use of "special forces" and military service being used to market knives, I think we are all wary of that. (Mick Strider as an example)

He noticed that those threads were active & it boosted his Google search rankings.
Although threads were shut down and he was warned to be reasonable, he kept bringing up phrases like "arcane" and "engineered" to stir the pot again.

He wanted to be thought of as different, yet just ripped off pieces from many others.
He wasn't outside the box, he just stole bits from other people's boxes.

• The first sawsall blade knife came from a maker on the survival board.
• The use of kit blades, not only without disclosure, but active attempts at deception.
• His website uses the "No Hype" symbol - taken from the Hype Free Blades site- too bad he didn't read the info there instead.
• The photo-shopped "Pimp/gangsta" with one of his knifes - smacks of Snody
• He was limited to a jig ground scandi grind- any attempt at a different grind type would no longer be "simple"
• Why would a maker spend the $$$ on a Paragon kiln, then not only skip using a pro quench oil, but champion it superiority? Controversy=posts= increased google search results.

(not contesting the use on canola on O1, just his blind promotion of it)