Restoring a Fadal Vertical Machining Center

Kosa_PL said:
Aaron: Do you will look for the new control hardware ?

Because of you I don't think more about HAAS Super MiniMill 2. And I will look for used VMC in Poland.
This will be faster that collecting 70.000 Euro >.>
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Holy cow! 70K euros for a SMM2?
That's a heck of a markup! They're about 40K euros (equivalent in USD today) in the US.
 
JCaswell said:
Holy cow! 70K euros for a SMM2?
That's a heck of a markup! They're about 40K euros (equivalent in USD today) in the US.
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A SuperMiniMill2 would be about $60k up here in Canada as well if I remember right. That's with no options except probe and toolsetter.
 
aarongough said:
A SuperMiniMill2 would be about $60k up here in Canada as well if I remember right. That's with no options except probe and toolsetter.
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That's not as bad, because the probe/toolsetter is a $5K option alone---and well worth every penny, btw!:thumbup:

That takes it to about $53K USD, plus tax and rigging ... Not that different than down here.

I got a MM2 with a bunch of extras (would have been a Super or VF-1, but I couldn't fit the side-mounted changer in my space.)
After the probe/toolsetter, "high-speed machining w/lookahead" (also important), 20-space toolchanger, rigid tapping, high-power coolant pump, and a few other things, mine worked out to $53K after tax, delivered, leveled and ready to rock. That was 2012.

Been really happy with that purchase, as I'm sure you will be with yours!:)
 
JCaswell said:
That's not as bad, because the probe/toolsetter is a $5K option alone---and well worth every penny, btw!:thumbup:

That takes it to about $53K USD, plus tax and rigging ... Not that different than down here.

I got a MM2 with a bunch of extras (would have been a Super or VF-1, but I couldn't fit the side-mounted changer in my space.)
After the probe/toolsetter, "high-speed machining w/lookahead" (also important), 20-space toolchanger, rigid tapping, high-power coolant pump, and a few other things, mine worked out to $53K after tax, delivered, leveled and ready to rock. That was 2012.

Been really happy with that purchase, as I'm sure you will be with yours!:)
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I definitely plan to fit a probe/toolsetter on my machine once I have some extra cash. It's pretty easy to install one on my machine from what I've seen.

The MiniMills seem like really nice well designed machines. I was looking at getting one but the bank didn't want to give me the money, and leasing didn't work out either which is how I ended up looking at used machines. I'm pretty happy with how it worked out. Certainly would have been a lot faster getting setup with a new machine though!

My new vise showed up from Orange today, super excited about that as it's a really beautifully made piece of kit! Hopefully I'll get the compressor soon (waiting on my tax return) then I'll be ready to rock! Already got a few toolholders from Maritool, and will get some more once my tax return comes in...
 
aarongough said:
I definitely plan to fit a probe/toolsetter on my machine once I have some extra cash. It's pretty easy to install one on my machine from what I've seen.

The MiniMills seem like really nice well designed machines. I was looking at getting one but the bank didn't want to give me the money, and leasing didn't work out either which is how I ended up looking at used machines. I'm pretty happy with how it worked out. Certainly would have been a lot faster getting setup with a new machine though!

My new vise showed up from Orange today, super excited about that as it's a really beautifully made piece of kit! Hopefully I'll get the compressor soon (waiting on my tax return) then I'll be ready to rock! Already got a few toolholders from Maritool, and will get some more once my tax return comes in...
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You put the work in, and it looks like you have a nice machine. Nothing wrong with a solid Fadal. There are shops around there that have been running those things hard for 20 years and they keep going.
 
JCaswell said:
You put the work in, and it looks like you have a nice machine. Nothing wrong with a solid Fadal. There are shops around there that have been running those things hard for 20 years and they keep going.
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I've heard stories like that from a lot of people! Pretty cool how long these machines will keep running if you look after them!
 
Before Haas, it was all Fadal dominating this category of machines. In fact it's probably not too much to say that Haas took up where Fadal left off. They were the standard in this class and EVERYWHERE during the cold war aerospace hay-day here in Southern California. The way I understand it from people that were there, Fadal was bought and pretty much shelved, leaving a big hole for affordable, quality CNC machining centers in particular, which is where Haas stepped up, and have done a great job dominating that segment since.
I visit shops of all kinds, and it almost never fails ... Unless its a really new shop, if there are numerous machines running, there's a Fadal chugging away in a corner somewhere.


I was visiting a really big local shop not long ago. Very well equipped with several 5-axis milling centers, one giant with more than 100-space tool changer and automated rack system floor to ceiling. They boasted they could set it up and run it non stop for a week. Amazing stuff cranking out military aircraft parts, mostly. The latest and best technology in lathes, machining, EDM, you name it!
So...
The owner was walking me through showing me this and that, and tucked away in the corner were 4 old Fadals running. He saw me notice them (they looked a out of place among the new "UFO Technology" stuff I'd been seeing) and said, "We got those when we started. I could replace them ... could really use the space ... but they keep on running."
I said, "run 'em til they blow!" and he said, "I'll be retired by then."

No joke! That's what he said.

It's funny how back in the day, these (and Haas) were derided as "throw-away" machines because they were usually lighter and/or less expensive than "real" machines.
But it's funny which ones are still running 20+ years later.
 
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JCaswell said:
Before Haas, it was all Fadal dominating this category of machines. In fact it's probably not too much to say that Haas took up where Fadal left off. They were the standard in this class and EVERYWHERE during the cold war aerospace hay-day here in Southern California. The way I understand it from people that were there, Fadal was bought and pretty much shelved, leaving a big hole for affordable, quality CNC machining centers in particular, which is where Haas stepped up, and have done a great job dominating that segment since.
I visit shops of all kinds, and it almost never fails ... Unless its a really new shop, if there are numerous machines running, there's a Fadal chugging away in a corner somewhere.


I was visiting a really big local shop not long ago. Very well equipped with several 5-axis milling centers, one giant with more than 100-space tool changer and automated rack system floor to ceiling. They boasted they could set it up and run it non stop for a week. Amazing stuff cranking out military aircraft parts, mostly. The latest and best technology in lathes, machining, EDM, you name it!
So...
The owner was walking me through showing me this and that, and tucked away in the corner were 4 old Fadals running. He saw me notice them (they looked a out of place among the new "UFO Technology" stuff I'd been seeing) and said, "We got those when we started. I could replace them ... could really use the space ... but they keep on running."
I said, "run 'em til they blow!" and he said, "I'll be retired by then."

No joke! That's what he said.

It's funny how back in the day, these (and Haas) were derided as "throw-away" machines because they were usually lighter and/or less expensive than "real" machines.
But it's funny which ones are still running 20+ years later.
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Very cool! Their history definitely shows in how accessible and affordable the parts are for the machines. There are a number of companies that simply supply parts for Fadals and so far they've been excellent to deal with!
 
Aaron, what kind of scales are on the fadal? are they the tubes loaded with ball bearings type? you've done an excellent job giving new life to that beast.
 
mike-E said:
Aaron, what kind of scales are on the fadal? are they the tubes loaded with ball bearings type? you've done an excellent job giving new life to that beast.
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Hey Mike!
Sorry mate, not quite sure what you're referring to there?

-Aaron
 
The problem with a lot of those neat smaller machines (aside from probable rigidity issues and sometimes the need for proprietary tooling and stuff), is the lack of support.
Haas was the only choice for my first machine, because I wanted it to be new (without experience with these machines, I wanted to start with a clean slate), and have support. Haas has excellent support in most places.
Fadal would be OK too, because there are still so many of them in service, there's infrastructure to support technicians and parts inventories should you get stumped on a weird problem.
 
aarongough said:
Hey Mike!
Sorry mate, not quite sure what you're referring to there?

-Aaron
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every cnc ive ever had apart ran on scales. some older ones were made of a brass strip that resembled a circuit, some were just a steel band, some were glass. they have a read head that slides along the scale that gives feedback to the system to make sure axis motor rev's are consistent. i thought all cnc's had scales, but i didnt see them in any of your pics or videos, that's why i asked. i guess as long as all the ball screw thrust bearings are good a cnc can run on motor rev's alone.
 
mike-E said:
every cnc ive ever had apart ran on scales. some older ones were made of a brass strip that resembled a circuit, some were just a steel band, some were glass. they have a read head that slides along the scale that gives feedback to the system to make sure axis motor rev's are consistent. i thought all cnc's had scales, but i didnt see them in any of your pics or videos, that's why i asked. i guess as long as all the ball screw thrust bearings are good a cnc can run on motor rev's alone.
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Ah gotcha! Glad I asked for clarification!

Yeah no scales on this machine. Lots of machining centers don't have them, they just do all their positioning based on encoders/resolvers as you said. The machine won't compensate for thermal growth without scales, but that's not an issue in my application.
 
So I finally got the chance to actually use the machine for something useful yesterday! Had to drill a LOT of holes in some lumber to make parts for my new workbenches, realized the machine could probably do them better and faster!

[video=youtube;zXEtVU6GR-A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXEtVU6GR-A[/video]

It worked out really well, drilled about 400 holes over the course of the day. I've done this by hand in the past and it was certainly much faster and more fun to use the machine!
 
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