Rick Hinderer sent Cease and Desist to Youtuber for saying the steel was soft in his knife?

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3D Anvil said:
I don't think Brian's statements were false or misleading, so I don't see any reason for him to retract them. I mean, what is Hinderer going to do, sue every reviewer who says something negative about one of his knives? Because Brian certainly isn't the only one who has done so. Why doesn't he go after Nick Shabbaz for trashing the XM-18 3"? I mean, that guy has almost 150k followers on Youtube! Think of the damage to poor Rick's reputation!
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Saying someone’s knives are “overpriced” because of poor heat treat is a damaging statement when broadcast on social media, whether you care to admit it or not.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Nervous has nothing to do with it. If someone harms my business and I get pissed off and send a C&D, why would you assume I’m “nervous”?
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I’m not gonna argue with you, it’s pointless.

Why in anyone’s right mind would they send a C&D if they weren’t concerned that it may/or has hurt their business??
 
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3D Anvil said:
He actually did say something like that. He said that (paraphrasing) the flipper tabs on Hinderers are ridiculously large "pocket peckers," among other things. Regardless, you just can't sue someone because they say they don't like your product, or some aspect of your product.
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Disliking a feature of a knife isn't the same as saying "your stuff is made wrong", which is what TK is doing, and then getting his followers to spread around.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I’m not gonna argue with you, it’s pointless.
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Cool, then stop responding. It’s voluntary.
Sharp & Fiery said:
Why in anyone’s right mind would they send a C&D if they weren’t concerned that it may/or has hurt their business??
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You said “nervous”… and I’m trying to tell you that just because someone sends a c&d doesn’t mean they’re “nervous”. The word “nervous” assumes guilt or anxiety around a known misdoing.. and your use of it demonstrates that you think Hinderer knowingly pushed out faulty product and used the C&D to cover it up. Is that what you’re implying?
 
Elgatodeacero said:
One reason could be that the sender is a thin skinned bully with a short fuse…….

The only thing hurting RHK’s business is his ridiculous letter to this TK person.
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So if you made a living selling knives, and some clown with a side business in his garage did a hardness test in your knives, and then made a video about how your knives suck and are overpriced, and that you’re misleading people.. you would just shrug your shoulders at that?

Well.. that could be the beginning of the end for your business. Then you could stare yourself in the mirror the rest of your life kicking yourself over not taking legal action because “it was the chill thing to do, dude”.
 
Quiet said:
Disliking a feature of a knife isn't the same as saying "your stuff is made wrong", which is what TK is doing, and then getting his followers to spread around.
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Again, I disagree. Because Brian's real complaint isn't that one of 12 blades was ever so slightly below 59hrc. His complaint is that he thinks knife makers, including Hinderer, should be running M390 harder than the target 59-61 range, and that range is a feature of the knife.

And for anyone interested, running M390 higher than 61 *does* make a huge difference in edge retention, as shown by Spyderco:

 
3D Anvil said:
Again, I disagree. Because Brian's real complaint isn't that one of 12 blades was ever so slightly below 59hrc. His complaint is that he thinks knife makers, including Hinderer, should be running M390 harder than the target 59-61 range, and that range is a feature of the knife.

And for anyone interested, running M390 higher than 61 *does* make a huge difference in edge retention, as shown by Spyderco:

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Doesn't the testing at knife steel nerds show 1 hrc only makes a 15 tcc (total cards cut) difference when tested on CATRA? I can't believe it makes that much of a difference honestly
 
Paratrooper06 said:
So if you made a living selling knives, and some clown with a side business in his garage did a hardness test in your knives, and then made a video about how your knives suck and are overpriced, and that you’re misleading people.. you would just shrug your shoulders at that?
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You're grossly exaggerating what Brian said. He's owned multiple Hinderers and his main complaint applies to nearly all big producers. But to answer your question, I wouldn't have shrugged my shoulders. I would have said, "I'm sorry if you got an out-of-spec blade. Send it in, and if we can confirm on our equipment I'll replace it free of charge." And you know what? If he had done that, I'm quite sure Brian would have made another video praising Rick's excellent customer service and lauding RHK for standing behind their product.
Paratrooper06 said:
Well.. that could be the beginning of the end for your business. Then you could stare yourself in the mirror the rest of your life kicking yourself over not taking legal action because “it was the chill thing to do, dude”.
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Quite the opposite. Instead of looking like a thin-skinned ahole, I'd come off looking like a class act and it would only serve to improve my bottom line.
 
3D Anvil said:
Again, I disagree. Because Brian's real complaint isn't that one of 12 blades was ever so slightly below 59hrc. His complaint is that he thinks knife makers, including Hinderer, should be running M390 harder than the target 59-61 range, and that range is a feature of the knife.

And for anyone interested, running M390 higher than 61 *does* make a huge difference in edge retention
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Higher hardness also leads to easier chipping of blades.

A friend of mine was pissed off that a Benchmade blade he got was getting chips from the same use that the same model of knife had no issues with before...because they run the blades harder now.

They run the blades harder now because of people whining about it on the internet, mainly.
In real life application, where real life people use real knives for real work (rather than just edge retention cardboard cutting tests and whatnot), harder is not always better.
 
TickTock said:
Doesn't the testing at knife steel nerds show 1 hrc only makes a 15 tcc (total cards cut) difference when tested on CATRA? I can't believe it makes that much of a difference honestly
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I believe that's a projected result, versus this real-world test. Also, as he states, in reality most M390 is actually at 59 hrc or below.
 
3D Anvil said:
Again, I disagree. Because Brian's real complaint isn't that one of 12 blades was ever so slightly below 59hrc. His complaint is that he thinks knife makers, including Hinderer, should be running M390 harder than the target 59-61 range, and that range is a feature of the knife.

And for anyone interested, running M390 higher than 61 *does* make a huge difference in edge retention, as shown by Spyderco:

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Right, and the way he went about it was trash, hence the C&D so he'll shut up and stop trashing Hinderer's products. Nobody appointed TK the arbiter of the "correct" way of doing things. His fans seem to think he is, well I say he isn't. "Who are you to say that?" My response: who is he to say that?

TK's big mouth and trashbag attitude is why we're here now. Dude thought that the cheering of his IG feed fans was more than it is.
 
stabman said:
Higher hardness also leads to easier chipping of blades.

A friend of mine was pissed off that a Benchmade blade he got was getting chips from the same use that the same model of knife had no issues with before...because they run the blades harder now.

They run the blades harder now because of people whining about it on the internet, mainly.
In real life application, where real life people use real knives for real work (rather than just edge retention cardboard cutting tests and whatnot), harder is not always better.
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Yep, I totally agree. But Brian's point is that, in his opinion, M390 is the wrong choice of blade steel if you're mostly concerned with toughness, because it's strength is edge retention -- not toughness. If you run it around 59 you're getting neither good toughness nor edge retention, but you're still paying extra for it.

I can't say if he's right or wrong, but at least one actual test supports his view.
 
Quiet said:
Right, and the way he went about it was trash, hence the C&D so he'll shut up and stop trashing Hinderer's products. Nobody appointed TK the arbiter of the "correct" way of doing things.
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True, and likewise, no one appointed Rick Hinderer the arbiter of the right way to do things. They can each have their own opinion and they're entitled to express them.
 
stabman said:
Higher hardness also leads to easier chipping of blades.

A friend of mine was pissed off that a Benchmade blade he got was getting chips from the same use that the same model of knife had no issues with before...because they run the blades harder now.

They run the blades harder now because of people whining about it on the internet, mainly.
In real life application, where real life people use real knives for real work (rather than just edge retention cardboard cutting tests and whatnot), harder is not always better.
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Exactly what I was saying. This TK guy sounds like an absolute doofus, and only his fans would really disagree. The towering arrogance to suggest that every production knife should be run at a high RC is absolute clownshoes. TK clearly grinds his blades for IG nitwits who think that lightsaber slicing through phone book paper is the only use for a knife, they couldn't possibly need it for anything else.
 
3D Anvil said:
Yep, I totally agree. But Brian's point is that, in his opinion, M390 is the wrong choice of blade steel if you're mostly concerned with toughness, because it's strength is edge retention -- not toughness. If you run it around 59 you're getting neither good toughness nor edge retention, but you're still paying extra for it.

I can't say if he's right or wrong, but at least one actual test supports his view.
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If you run it harder it will have more edge retention; that much is true.
I'd be interested to know how much easier it would make edge chipping. On a pocket knife it is usually edge chipping that is the issue, not blades snapping, especially with the stock thickness and grind used on Hinderer knives, or other knives in the same genre.
 
3D Anvil said:
True, and likewise, no one appointed Rick Hinderer the arbiter of the right way to do things. They can each have their own opinion and they're entitled to express them.
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I'm sorry, what? Rick Hinderer is the guy who decides how to build his knives, not Brian Kim. Brian Kim's opinion is just that, an opinion. Rick has been building knives for how long now?

Let me clear something up for you: if Rick had been doing it wrong all this time, you wouldn't know who Rick Hinderer is. Simple as that.

Who is Brian Kim? Some bum knife modder on IG that nobody knew about before this week.
 
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