Bad Rip off by KEN LEUNG aka “Shadymethods”

[Hta_evo8]

I bought knife from seller via email out of this thread.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...-knife-phantom-steelworks-skinwalker.1553023/
Upon receiving the knife I email seller telling him something is wrong, action is too tight and there’s NO detent.
Here’s the email excerpt

“....I've handle a couple of them, this one is not functioning properly.

BLy

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 24, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

From what I understand, Chris designed that model to be a quick self-defence knife. It's designed to have a light detent so you can shake it out if you need to.

About the action, I'm sorry but that knife is running on Teflon washers. That is the action you get on most Teflon. It's not going to drop shut as if it was running on ball bearings. Teflon tends to be stiffer and a bit sticky but stronger than bearings. It's actually why it has a lighter detent. The Teflon helps keep the blade in place. I've carried it a few times so I know from experience that it will not open in your pocket. If you want a different action, I don't know if you can convert that one to bearings but your best bet would be to contact Chris.”

Closer inspection shows the detent ball doesn’t fall into the hole milled in the blade to accept it, hence NO detent. Blade will fall out on a mild shake. To cover that defect the pivot is tightened, otherwise the blade will not stay shut in the handle.

He refused to accept return on this defective knife and I can’t claim PP FF.
He ask me to do PP FF and because of his stellar 200+ positive ratings, I didn’t hesitate, a perfect setup.

 

[Nautique]

I save friends & family for friends & family. Pretty simple.

 

[SVTFreak]

With a name like that.....

Never use friends and family unless it’s a friend or family, folks.

 

[Ajack60]

SMH, I guess next time you’ll hesitate.

 

[Danke42]

Test drove a knife you're not happy with?

 

[BellaBlades]

Bummer.

Can you get a photo of the lack of detent.

 

[Casinostocks]

I don't think that it would be considered as "nannying" or diminishing the freedom of choice, if Blade Forums stipulates in its Exchange rules that F&F transaction are prohibited and therefore can be reported with the ads removed and infractions handed down to multiple offenders. I know that this is a huge and heavy burden on the Forum's mods but perhaps one dedicated mod just for the Exchanges to both encounter and combat such shady (no pun) practices?

P.S. not taking the OP's side but we see way too many of these F&F transactions gone wrong. Some new comers just think that it's a normal way of doing business here if they don't bother to read the rules or simply skim over them. Again the fault is on them but there are such frauds taking place on the Exchange.

 

[craytab]

I bought knife from seller via email out of this thread.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...-knife-phantom-steelworks-skinwalker.1553023/
Upon receiving the knife I email seller telling him something is wrong, action is too tight and there’s NO detent.
Here’s the email excerpt

“....I've handle a couple of them, this one is not functioning properly.

BLy

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 24, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

From what I understand, Chris designed that model to be a quick self-defence knife. It's designed to have a light detent so you can shake it out if you need to.

About the action, I'm sorry but that knife is running on Teflon washers. That is the action you get on most Teflon. It's not going to drop shut as if it was running on ball bearings. Teflon tends to be stiffer and a bit sticky but stronger than bearings. It's actually why it has a lighter detent. The Teflon helps keep the blade in place. I've carried it a few times so I know from experience that it will not open in your pocket. If you want a different action, I don't know if you can convert that one to bearings but your best bet would be to contact Chris.”

Closer inspection shows the detent ball doesn’t fall into the hole milled in the blade to accept it, hence NO detent. Blade will fall out on a mild shake. To cover that defect the pivot is tightened, otherwise the blade will not stay shut in the handle.

He refused to accept return on this defective knife and I can’t claim PP FF.
He ask me to do PP FF and because of his stellar 200+ positive ratings, I didn’t hesitate, a perfect setup.

ShadyMethods should know about this thread, which this tag will do. Can you provide evidence of the issues you describe? Video of the action? Picture of the detent ball not going into the hole? While it won't help with paypal because you stupidly paid F&F, showing evidence that he sold a knife in the condition you describe will have an impact on his reputation here. If after he knows about this thread and you have communicated with him, he still refuses to take the knife back you should leave him negative feedback.

Also, hopefully you are in contact with a moderate to advise you on what else to do.

 

[TW-Knife]

Same guy sold me a knife listed as 'Factory Custom' that was not and he knew it from what I found out later. So you can't always trust high feedback. In fact I've had more small issues unmentioned and passed to me from high feedback sellers than anyone. I just let it go, although I well over paid/traded for a knife that was done on some guys kitchen table as the factory. Plus I had already left positive feedback.

 

[stonesell]

If you don’t first read about the proper way to use Paypal F&F vs G&S, a person has to learn the hard way.

 

[ooitzoo]

I've traded with Ken (aka Shadymethods) in the past without issue; let's give him a chance to reply before we pile on.

 

[ShadyMethods]

Before this gets too out of hand, let me chime in. First off, I never demand F&F. I understand that it has it's risks and on every thread I say "Prices include all shipping and PayPal fees in the US." That is on each and every sale thread I start, and unless I'm shipping to another country with strict laws, I won't ask for F&F. I offered it since he kept asking for a lower price. I gave him the option and he took it. He had no feedback at the time and I had someone try to scam me by abusing PayPal's buyer protection late last year (https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ng-baf-co-related-from-wilmington-ma.1528847/) so you can understand why I might not object to F&F.

Next, he bought the knife without asking any questions and then complained about the detent and said the action was "stiff and sticky". I explained to him that the knife has a light detent and was running on teflon. Teflon has a different feeling compared to bearings. I wasn't trying to hide anything from him. He just assumed that the knife was going to be exactly to his liking. I didn't know that he didn't like either. He had preferences that he didn't tell me about.

I wasn't rude to him. I explained everything and got back to him within a day or so of each message since I was fairly busy at the time. He kept saying that the knife had no detent and was worried that it would open in his pocket. I assured him that that wouldn't be the case. I keep a small collection of Phantom Steelworks and handled another Skinwalker that was about the same. I had actually carried that exact Skinwalker several times. Even went jogging with it. It never opened up in my pocket so I was skeptical of his claims. The knife was not defective when I had it. It just sounded like he wanted to change the action/detent on the knife so I pointed him toward the maker.

Then, he starts claiming that the frame is out of alignment with the blade. I know that's not the case so I ask for proof on 2/26/18. He never gets back to me and now he opens up a GBU thread over a month later.

 

[Casinostocks]

SM, I'm leaning more toward buyer's remorse in this particular case but that does not exonerate you from the F&F snafu, no matter what your reasons for such rationalization unless the funds issued are truly either from your friends / family for a none transactional matter. A transaction for Goods or Services is strictly that, i.e, a transaction no matter how sanctimonious I may sound!

If someone does not have a long history and is asking for a better price, put the onus on him by offering a discounted price ala F&F, by way of a USPS Money Order.

 

[Hta_evo8]

View attachment 883933

ShadyMethods should know about this thread, which this tag will do. Can you provide evidence of the issues you describe? Video of the action? Picture of the detent ball not going into the hole? While it won't help with paypal because you stupidly paid F&F, showing evidence that he sold a knife in the condition you describe will have an impact on his reputation here. If after he knows about this thread and you have communicated with him, he still refuses to take the knife back you should leave him negative feedback.

Also, hopefully you are in contact with a moderate to advise you on what else to do.

April 10 18, updated picts
I decided to go ahead and take the pivot out. I move the blade just a little bit back and forth, lo and below the detent ball fell right in.
But now you can’t put the pivot collar back on because the front scale, the blade, the back scale are all out of alignment. Now you can see in pict #1 the lock bar sit lower relative to the rest of the knife, fully closed and locked with detent ball in hole in blade.
Can’t leave negative feedback unless you’ve posted on the thread, which I did not do.

One of the pict has a rubber band on it so there’s no questions it is fully closed

AT MY COST and RISK, I will ship this knife to a third party to inspect if there’s a knowledgeable individual who would volunteer for such an undertaking and will include return postage in the form of CASH

 

[Hta_evo8]

Then, he starts claiming that the frame is out of alignment with the blade. I know that's not the case so I ask for proof on 2/26/18. He never gets back to me and now he opens up a GBU thread over a month later.[/QUOTE]

In fact you agree to a return if I can prove that there’s no detent. I sent you the picts in 2 different emails and follow up with a third one asking if you’re going to give me a refund. How convenient that these last 3 emails got lost.
As far as the frame, it MIGHT be out of alignment just from eyeing it, but I could be wrong, I’m not a knife maker
I have 2 knives on Teflon washer, the Lionsteel SR2 and correct me if I’m wrong but the half track is as well. So I know what a proper functioning knife on Teflon washers feels like.
For all I know this one may have something different altogether

 

[SVTFreak]

You can’t see if the detent ball is falling in proper place in those pics. Not even close. Not on the shiro either.

 

[Hta_evo8]

You can’t see if the detent ball is falling in proper place in those pics. Not even close. Not on the shiro either.

not directly, but you can see the detent bar position relative to the rest of the knife. Fully closed the ball should fall into the hole in the blade making the detent bar sit lower as in the shiro comparison
I’ve exceeded my pict limit for this thread, I have 2 more Picts that I’ve tried to capture the detent ball

 

[Boru13]

He refused to accept return on this defective knife and I can’t claim PP FF.
He ask me to do PP FF and because of his stellar 200+ positive ratings, I didn’t hesitate, a perfect setup.

Can you provide proof to either one of these claims ?

 

[Hta_evo8]

Can you provide proof to either one of these claims ?

On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is there any chance you'd be willing to go up just a bit to $665 Goods and Services (or $650 Friends and Family) for the Skinwalker. It was close to $1000 new and it's basically in the same condition. Let me know.

Thanks,
Ken

From: lybodpm LY <LYBODPM@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 3:24 PM
To: Ken Leung
Subject: Re: Skinwalker

I'd like to return it. I'm not going to keep a folder that does not hold its blade in the handle when folded
Neither am I gonna modify the knife, or send it to spa. You can do that upon receiving as a return. Then you can make all that money selling it for a whole lot more.

BLy

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 25, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

I've handled another Skinwalker as well and the action was about the same. I also have a few other Phantom Steelworks as well but those are bearing flippers. I'm sorry and I don't mean any offense but I just don't think I misrepresented the knife.

If you want to modify the knife, I'd recommend contacting Chris Martin. Last time I sent in 2 knives for spa and had them both back in a week. Only had to pay for shipping it there. You could also sell it as well. I sold you a $1000 knife for little over $600. You could probably even make money off of it.

I can forward the rest of the emails which will have headings, timelines
When I try to highlight and copy, not all will show.

 

[craytab]

You can’t see if the detent ball is falling in proper place in those pics. Not even close. Not on the shiro either.

This. You can't see the problems the OP is describing.

On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is there any chance you'd be willing to go up just a bit to $665 Goods and Services (or $650 Friends and Family) for the Skinwalker. It was close to $1000 new and it's basically in the same condition. Let me know.

Thanks,
Ken

From: lybodpm LY <LYBODPM@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 3:24 PM
To: Ken Leung
Subject: Re: Skinwalker

I'd like to return it. I'm not going to keep a folder that does not hold its blade in the handle when folded
Neither am I gonna modify the knife, or send it to spa. You can do that upon receiving as a return. Then you can make all that money selling it for a whole lot more.

BLy

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 25, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Ken Leung <kenleung1995@hotmail.com> wrote:

I've handled another Skinwalker as well and the action was about the same. I also have a few other Phantom Steelworks as well but those are bearing flippers. I'm sorry and I don't mean any offense but I just don't think I misrepresented the knife.

If you want to modify the knife, I'd recommend contacting Chris Martin. Last time I sent in 2 knives for spa and had them both back in a week. Only had to pay for shipping it there. You could also sell it as well. I sold you a $1000 knife for little over $600. You could probably even make money off of it.

All this for $15? That is less than the fees on $665. You could have paid G&S but you chose to save $15 on a $600+ knife. I don't get it. I detest asking F&F as a seller but it wouldn't work if buyers didn't accept paying it.