Round up those Cattle Knives!!

Neal, serpentine is a No-no, as both ends aren't the same, or equal. One end turns up while the other turns down.
 
I'm loving this thread!
I'd say the main difference between a cattle and stockman is size, with stockman being larger. But a serpentine with clip point main and two more blades sharing a spring is a stockman no matter the size.
It's too bad the vintage knife catalog thread has gone to crap with all those broken Photobucket links as it was a great way to settle (or fuel) these debates.
 
waynorth said:
Nice to see them all gathering around the barn!!:D
Great bunch, Arathol! I am guessing that swell-center is a large one - how long Will?
Click to expand...

Actually no Charlie, a 'modest' 3 7/8" I think Queen Cutlery must have had some catalogue pictures of their Heritage series from about 2010 when they came out.

I traded it for a Queen WCSB Canoe which was better finished and had D2 blades but I've never got my head round Canoe patterns, odd as I generally like single-spring kniveso_O

The Heritage Woodlander has a very nice type of light bone that I like very much, rather similar to the bone on an EE Harness Knife that you had a hand in with Queen I think? The other Jacks in that series included a scarce Candy Stripe handle, Stag and Ebony.:cool:

Thanks, Will
 
herder said:
Fantastic cattle knives waynorth and others!!!
Here is one that has been previously posted but will be followed up by some others that haven't.

View attachment 836776
Click to expand...
Great knives guys, love Herder's Ulster the best though. here are a couple of mine. The Excelsior has been posted on BF somewhere else but can't remember the thread. Some think the knife is a Parker remake which it's not!excelsior (1024x683).jpg 2010-07-24 04.02.21 (1024x683).jpg
 
Great knives all!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup: Keep em commin!!:)
The Cattle knives from the Heritage Series made by Queen have been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. These two knives are from the second and perhaps final release of the Heritage Series in 2012. As it so happens I am photographing that set for the Queen thread so I figured....why not post em here as well?? ;) These are 3 5/8" closed.......
IMG_2447.JPG The bone didn't take the dye completely but they put it on anyways.....now it's Unique!!!! :D

IMG_2450.JPG Odd placement for the french pull on sheepsfoot blade.... both the main and SF blades face the mark side, the pen just has a standard nail nick facing the opposite.


Dave
 
Yes Charlie it does!! No problem! The main has a drawn swedge on the back side that runs the full length of the blade but the sheepsfoot still sits higher than I like when closed and using the main blade. Just seemed odd to me that they put the french pull facing the mark when it is usually facing the pile so the sheepsfoot could be set lower in the frame. o_O

Dave
 
Very educational, Charlie, I stand corrected! I thought a cattle knife HAD to have an equal end frame, otherwise it was a stockman.

In support of Levine's definitions above, here is a Eureka cattle knife from 1980 by Robt. Klaas.
It's interesting in that all three blades have long pulls, even the pen.

KTGoUcr.jpg

YDCZLhU.jpg
 
justsomedude said:
I'm loving this thread!
I'd say the main difference between a cattle and stockman is size, with stockman being larger. But a serpentine with clip point main and two more blades sharing a spring is a stockman no matter the size.
It's too bad the vintage knife catalog thread has gone to crap with all those broken Photobucket links as it was a great way to settle (or fuel) these debates.
Click to expand...

Debate is based on facts and research. Can't debate without facts. The book that Charlie quoted is a good reference.

black mamba said:
Neal, serpentine is a No-no, as both ends aren't the same, or equal. One end turns up while the other turns down.
Click to expand...

A stockman is always serpentine. According to Levine, a stockman also has a clip blade. Cattle knives can have either a clip blade or a spear blade. The cattle knives that are serpentine are rare examples. I spoke with Levine about some of these terms a while back. My own opinion, is that some of the distinctions could be debated... like transitional and premier cattle knives.

supratentorial said:
Levine... defines a stock knife as always having a clip main in addition to a serpentine handle. He describes premier and transitional cattle knives as serpentine unlike other cattle knives. ...."Cattle" and "stockman" were terms of art used in catalogs, of course, but I have never seen "premier" or "transitional" used in old ad copy. I guess they are collector terms. It seems a bit odd to call it a "transitional" knife since this example was made 30 to 40 years after 1890 but I guess it could be a long transition. It would seem a lot easier to just drop the requirement of a clip blade and call it a stockman.
Click to expand...

Although some pattern names were terms of art, others are modern collector terms. For example, "sowbelly" is a modern collector term. It is a stockman with a big curve. Some of the old catalogs described the pattern as a cattle knife. Some of the old knives were even etched "Cattle Knife" on the main blades.

As Levine has said, pattern names weren't written on stone. :D
 
black mamba said:
Very educational, Charlie, I stand corrected! I thought a cattle knife HAD to have an equal end frame, otherwise it was a stockman.

In support of Levine's definitions above, here is a Eureka cattle knife from 1980 by Robt. Klaas.
It's interesting in that all three blades have long pulls, even the pen.

KTGoUcr.jpg

YDCZLhU.jpg
Click to expand...
I thought the same thing for a long time, Jeff! Nice Eureka!!
 
I think I'm confused. :confused: If a Cattle Knife can be serpentine and have a clip main, how does it differ from a Stockman? Or is a Stockman a type of Cattle Knife? o_O
 
Can't say I'm not confused but I thought all serpentines were stockman . Cattle knives were usually equal end but not all ways like eureka. Never serpentine though. Is this correct?
 
Levine said that serpentine, or premier cattle knives have spear mains. If they have a clip main, then they are a stockman. See the last paragraph of the excerpted portion in waynorth's post #47.
 
I get confused also! I have to go back and read those Levine paragraphs from time to time.
The "premier" and "transitional" definitions are hard to carry along in my brain cells!
It's good that this is probably true; "at least 90% of Cattle knives are standard equal-ends"!

Just collecting the other less-than-10% would save you money!! And drive you crazy!!
:D
 
Last edited:
black mamba said:
Levine said that serpentine, or premier cattle knives have spear mains. If they have a clip main, then they are a stockman. See the last paragraph of the excerpted portion in waynorth's post #47.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'm feeling quite dense right now. Does this sound right?
Serpentine with clip = Stockman
Serpentine with spear = Cattle Knife
Equal end with clip or spear =Cattle Knife
 
Okay, I'm feeling quite dense right now. Does this sound right?
Serpentine with clip = Stockman.
Serpentine with spear = Cattle Knife. (this one might be arguable, case by case!:rolleyes:)
Equal end with clip or spear =Cattle Knife

Who said life was easy??:eek:
:D
 
So, if I have this straight, my Case/Bose Cattle knife is not a cattle knife, but my Sowbellies may very well have been considered such at one time. It's all starting to make sense now! :eek:;):p
 
r8shell said:
Okay, I'm feeling quite dense right now. Does this sound right?
Serpentine with clip = Stockman
Serpentine with spear = Cattle Knife
Equal end with clip or spear =Cattle Knife
Click to expand...

r8shell, That's a reasonable approximation. This is off the top of my head so if there are mistakes or omissions, please correct them...

Serpentine with clip = Stockman
Serpentine with spear = Cattle Knife ancestor(*1) to stockman (bulky="premier" & slender="transitional")
Equal end or "fancy"(*2) with clip or spear =Cattle Knife

(*1) I think a good question is... What about long after 1890? Can you still have ancestors or transitional patterns 50 years later??
(*2) fancy=jumbo, balloon, surveyor, eureka
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top