Russian (Topor) pattern

Square_peg said:
It's a valid question. The A2 is a 3-1/4 pound axe. It would do well on a 28"-32" haft.
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It is a Difficult question for sure.
(it never does get answered in that topic from whence it comes).
To begin with,one would probably need to decide what kind of work would be done with it....
 
Square_peg said:
It's a valid question. The A2 is a 3-1/4 pound axe. It would do well on a 28"-32" haft.
Click to expand...

jake pogg said:
It is a Difficult question for sure.
(it never does get answered in that topic from whence it comes).
To begin with,one would probably need to decide what kind of work would be done with it....
Click to expand...

Many tasks would be better suited with a smaller lighter axe. As a lifelong carrpenter I can say that a short handled 3-1/4 pound axe will not do well for many carpentry tasks. The A1 at 2.4 pounds is more like our broad hatchet and would find wider use.

The A2 might be equivalent to our miner's axe if the haft were better suited for two-handed work. Its thin wide bit would be good for squaring or shaving timbers.

It must have been difficult for Soviet craftsman to have to work with a minimal selection of tools.
 
Agent_H said:
J jake pogg - thank you for the translations/history.
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Actually i kinda owe you all an apology,i probably should of either not gotten into that history at all,or kept on going...:(

There's a LOT of info there,lots more than i bargained for...i simply lack a month or whatever it'd take to do it justice...

It Is a massive historic landmark,these Zlatoust Works.Possibly,a well-written history of that factory alone can explain a lot about that country as a whole.
And some of it may even explain why such a numerous and constructive people were supplied so poorly and with Such crapulous tools.

The story goes on to the end of 18th century/beginning 19th, when the owners go broke and renege on their loans et c. and as a result the Works become the property of the State.(And in practical terms remain so to this very day).

And it just goes on and on and ON about all the marvelous improvements and modernisations,and the wonderful tooling inside the many fantastical shops....(it actually lists the forges and anvils and goes into details of trip-hammers...)....And in the end of nearly 300 years of this we have a pi$$-poor product,of one sort,unchanged for decades and decades and useless to begin with....

Square_peg said:
It must have been difficult for Soviet craftsman to have to work with a minimal selection of tools.
Click to expand...

Difficult verging on impossible,resulting in dysfunction on a massive,grand scale.

I agree with you on the matter of general carpentry use/haft proportions,yet,there was no such animal(unless customised by an individual himself,like Tras Krom's axes above).

Was there not,somewhere in this thread,a video about building a Russian wooden house?It's pure propaganda of course,but still does give a bit of an idea of what used to be the purpose for these axes.
 
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Yep,Ernest,as a log builder i must confess to not having seen any axes around our const.sites either...:(

Square_peg,i tried to to think some more about the nature of the purposing of these axes...What comes to mind i suppose is the English Kent-pattern hatchet.These also,somewhat like the A2,were handled on the shorter side even when reaching fairly significant weight.
Till some point when they'd finally crest into the "mast-axe" type of tool with longer haft...

Here's an example of a kind of work a Russian house-carpenter may've needed to do with such:
(sorry for how boring this'll be for a non-speaker;actually it's boring in any case,the guy doesn't say much of interest).
As one can see the work is not of the finest sort,as in there's no necessity to join seamlessly...It was log-work,essentially,one big Chinese puzzle type of a thing that worked Together,as one complex unit,in terms of settling,drainage,adjustment of adjacent members one to another.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse,we've touched on most of this before here,this is just apropos the haft length.
 
Thanks,Ernest,it's kind of you to say that.

Unfortunately,jobs like that are far and few between.Mine is not the time,or the culture,that has much use for this styles and ideas in general,and i'm pretty much reconciled to it anymore.
I'm but a poor fisherman now....And must be content with it...(and am,for the most part...:)
 
But-MUCH more to the point of this thread-here're some amazing constructions called "belyana".
They were rafts,only a way to raft the logs down the Volga and Kama rivers to the Caspian.
But the way was so long that it was economically practical to construct Such edifices....
The entire construction is logs,hull and deck and superstructures,some already milled,some round,but all to be taken apart at the final terminal.
https://masterok.livejournal.com/2292450.html

(more on the subject of how primitive "topor" was as a tool and how Much got done with it nonetheless...)
 
That's right,those incredible chained-together cigar-shaped rafts,that were then towed to San Francisco...(am i thinking of the right principle?).

In late 80-ies,after the San Francisco earthquake,my friend was working down there on demolishing some of the damaged houses.
He came back with tales of old baloon-frames built out of clear,straight-grained Doug fir 2x4's,40' long....
I think that most of that timber got there in that way,from the Deschutes and Columbia and other PNW rivers...
 
jake pogg said:
That's right,those incredible chained-together cigar-shaped rafts,that were then towed to San Francisco...(am i thinking of the right principle?).

In late 80-ies,after the San Francisco earthquake,my friend was working down there on demolishing some of the damaged houses.
He came back with tales of old baloon-frames built out of clear,straight-grained Doug fir 2x4's,40' long....
I think that most of that timber got there in that way,from the Deschutes and Columbia and other PNW rivers...
Click to expand...

You had me at "Deschutes" lol.

jake pogg said:
But-MUCH more to the point of this thread-here're some amazing constructions called "belyana".
They were rafts,only a way to raft the logs down the Volga and Kama rivers to the Caspian.
But the way was so long that it was economically practical to construct Such edifices....
The entire construction is logs,hull and deck and superstructures,some already milled,some round,but all to be taken apart at the final terminal.
https://masterok.livejournal.com/2292450.html

(more on the subject of how primitive "topor" was as a tool and how Much got done with it nonetheless...)
Click to expand...

Jake I see your pike there that you had mentioned previously in another thread. Good looking side-kick as well.

Here is a postcard representation of a Volga River log raft, since conversation “drifted” that way:

gFbZ9Rq.jpg


XYmYQN3.jpg
 
Sorry,my PNW geography could be better...:)...

It's a neat picture,many cool features present.Those withes are neat,i'd bet it took some work harvest and to raft up the logs using those.....(probably willow bark,or aspen inner bark...).
That "front" sweep is neat too.The raft,because of gravity and air-resistance actually has negative way(going slower than the current,practically going up-stream).That's why that sweep faces "forward",from what is actually the raft's stern:)
 
And pike...YES.The importance of pike-pole CANNOT be overestimated.
It's not just a necessity to get the work done,but a guarantee of safety,indeed your very life,on the raft.One Never steps off onto the raft without it...
I don't often run rafts of any size,does happen occasionally,but really Any water-work demands you always have a pike in your hand,or at least in reach.
https://imgur.com/a/oxLVX
https://imgur.com/a/oqWD6
 
jake pogg said:
Sorry,my PNW geography could be better...:)...

It's a neat picture,many cool features present.Those withes are neat,i'd bet it took some work harvest and to raft up the logs using those.....(probably willow bark,or aspen inner bark...).
That "front" sweep is neat too.The raft,because of gravity and air-resistance actually has negative way(going slower than the current,practically going up-stream).That's why that sweep faces "forward",from what is actually the raft's stern:)
Click to expand...

I believe that about the wind resistance/drag. I grew up running a supply scow for larger rafting parties on the Rogue River during summers.
First one up in the morning to get to the lunch site and then the next camp. You stand all day though. But you also got to eat first since you carry most of the food as well lol. It does allow for people to run kayaks and drift boats higher on the water when your gear is mainly carted for you. A cross breeze can make you work harder though.

Those scows were a smooth ride but ungainly in white water. I’m sure nothing like being perched on one of those log rafts in that picture though. Those wouldn’t stop easily I imagine.

Not to go off too much but one of the guys in that picture has an axe :thumbsup:
 
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