S110V at 59 Rc

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Twindog

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The ZT 0560CBCF is your basic awesome. It has amazing fit and finish. The edge is evenly ground at 19 dps, and the point is as sharp as any production knife I’ve seen. I don’t see a single flaw.

But I’m wondering what to expect from the S110V edge steel on the composite blade, which I read in one post is hardened to about 59 Rc. I can’t find where ZT releases and discusses the hardness specs for its knives, but my understanding is that the sweet spot for this steel is quite a bit higher, maybe 62-63 Rc.


The blade is fairly thick: a little more than 0.03 at the shoulders of the 38 degree edge. I’m wondering if the potential of this steel to hold an edge is wasted when run this soft, or whether it matches well to a heavy blade designed to handle light abuse. Usually, I put a 30 degree edge on all my blades, but would a 40 degree edge work better with this steel at this hardness for run-of-the-mill EDC uses.
 
It's a production knife and Kershaw runs slightly on the softer side so that would be expected.

With it being that thick behind the edge I am sure it will be fine, I would see how it does there and after a few sharpenings to remove enough steel refreshing the edge from the factory.

Personally I would sharpen it before using it making sure to remove enough metal to get to fresh metal leaving the angle alone.
 
Thanks, Jim. I'll take your advice. It will be interesting to compare this same knife in Elmax and S110V.
 
I would be sad to spend that kind of money on a knife in S110V to have it at 59 hrc. Now I understand why Kershaw does it being as it is still a production and you have to account for the stupid people who will purchase the knife.
 
It has more to do with the the composite blade and the copper in the joint than concern for the end user. It's just a product of the technology used to make the composite blade.
 
PatrickKnight said:
I would be sad to spend that kind of money on a knife in S110V to have it at 59 hrc. Now I understand why Kershaw does it being as it is still a production and you have to account for the stupid people who will purchase the knife.
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That was my concern, although the knife is so nice that I would have bought it anyway.

But the whole reason to go with S110V is to get the high wear resistance, along with excellent corrosion resistance.

Crucible shows that S110V at 60 Rc has less wear resistance than S90V at 61 Rc. If I'm reading Crucible's chart correctly, my S90V knives (such as the South Fork) will have better wear resistance than my 0560CBCF.

Here's the chart:
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\Datasheet CPM S110Vv12010.pdf

I think Sticktodrum is right about the reasons for running the S110V so soft, but then it shouldn't have been a composite blade.

Still love this knife.
 
It will still be a monster at 59. My GH2 in S90V is run at 61. I'm curious how accurate that chart is. Both steels are still way up there for stainless steels.
 
I may be wrong here but I believe you are right, that S90V at 61 will have better wear resistance than S110V at 59.

I think the reason they went with the composite is more the likely cost. Could you imagine how much a 560 with a pure S110V blade would cost, it would be wayyyyy up there.
 
Well, S90V is pretty darn good, too. But it would be nice to think that S110V wasn't just about marketing.

Here's the knife:

DSC01972_zpsbb4ea887.jpg
 
Personally I would be disappointed. Hitting that low on the hrc is a waste of good steel. Not to mention the shoulder thickness which you think they would correct by now... and let's not try and make the excuse and say its done for strength, cause that's BS.
 
TriviaMonster said:
It will still be a monster at 59. My GH2 in S90V is run at 61. I'm curious how accurate that chart is. Both steels are still way up there for stainless steels.
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Have you tested the hardness of your GH2 yet? Until it's done that is just a WAG.
knifenut1013 said:
Personally I would be disappointed. Hitting that low on the hrc is a waste of good steel. Not to mention the shoulder thickness which you think they would correct by now... and let's not try and make the excuse and say its done for strength, cause that's BS.
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Be sure to write Rick Hinderer a note explaining that. I'm sure he'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
 
RevDevil said:
Have you tested the hardness of your GH2 yet? Until it's done that is just a WAG.

True enough. But, how often do we take the hardness we are told by manufacturers as fact? I will take Peters Heat Treat as good enough until we know further. I mean, do we even know KAI is pumping these out at 59? Their range would vary more than Peters small batch of GH's.
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I've had both a 560 and a 561 in Elmax. Nice knives; solid and not too heavy.
I'm not sure that I want to spend twice the money for the S110V. My EDC needs are much too casual. S30V/S35VN works fine for me in CRK folders. I just cannot place the ZT CBCF in the same class as the Umnumzaan. IMO.
 
RevDevil said:
Have you tested the hardness of your GH2 yet? Until it's done that is just a WAG.

Be sure to write Rick Hinderer a note explaining that. I'm sure he'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
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If he wants to read my thoughts he can look here. It's not like its a new concept, thick steels cuts poorly and when below recommended hardness performs the same as a lesser steel.

As a example you can look at these testing results with HRC values which confirm just that. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope
 
S110v, has more edge retention then 1095 at annealed state due to extreme alloy. So even if the zt was run soft @59 it should still perform well, but s110v is best suited @62.5-64 or even 65 in some cases.
 
+1 to what gine wrote.

TriviaMonster said:
RevDevil said:
Have you tested the hardness of your GH2 yet? Until it's done that is just a WAG.

True enough. But, how often do we take the hardness we are told by manufacturers as fact? I will take Peters Heat Treat as good enough until we know further. I mean, do we even know KAI is pumping these out at 59? Their range would vary more than Peters small batch of GH's.
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Ankerson can confirm via speaking with Phil Wilson that the HT for S90V to get to 61Rc is expensive, time consuming and involves various phases that can last days. No idea what the steel in that knife tests out at, I'm still waiting for some kind of word on the Bowie style blade, but it might take a really long time.

knifenut1013 said:
If he wants to read my thoughts he can look here. It's not like its a new concept, thick steels cuts poorly and when below recommended hardness performs the same as a lesser steel.

As a example you can look at these testing results with HRC values which confirm just that. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope
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I've seen the results of a lot of testing, read the Crucible site a few times on 100V, 90V, etc. your post read a bit condescending though. At any rate, the knives sold pretty well and continue to given the overall grind and thickness. I use mine quite often (regular 0560), and haven't had any real issues. Te knife isn't designed to be a scalpel afterall.
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Sonnydaze said:
I've had both a 560 and a 561 in Elmax. Nice knives; solid and not too heavy.
I'm not sure that I want to spend twice the money for the S110V. My EDC needs are much too casual. S30V/S35VN works fine for me in CRK folders. I just cannot place the ZT CBCF in the same class as the Umnumzaan. IMO.
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FWIW I like my 0560CBCF much better than I did my stock Umnumzaan, and my old 0561 at least as well.
 
Not condescending, just stating facts.

I've owned a few ZT's and have carried a 0551 sense release, sharpened a bunch of 0550's too which had a killer heat treat BTW and a thinner grind. So in some respects they did make moves in the direction of performance but being consistent helps.

Regardless of how S110V performs compared next to a basic carbon steel the fact remains you are purchasing the knife for the premium steel and it should perform as such.
 
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