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Sad day for me a ZT lover...
- Thread starter Gideons
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And it's just the tip.
Grind a new tip on it.
Make it a thicker tip if you like prying. :thumbup:
Can do a chisel tip on it now, I guess. Oh and here's a hard use test of another Elmax ZT, complete with prying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmH5M6brwRk
I swear the steel inserts make the lock slip.
Everyone seems to have forgotten the fact that he was comparing the lock and tip strength of a knife that's "built like a tank" to another that's less than 1/2 the price. Sure batoning and prying are abusive, not saying that they are not, but car crash tests are abusive to the car too.
I seen a lot of hypocrisy in this forums. If ZT passed with flying color and out-baton/pry everything else, the conversation would be very different, and some people would not be calling this thread silly.
Just because people have different opinion on what their knives need/should be able to do doesn't you should condescend & belittle them, even tho they might be the minority.
The key is, he is comparing one knife vs the other for a particular task(whether you need it or not), one failed, and it happens to be 2x more expensive and marketed as a tank.
I seen a lot of hypocrisy in this forums. If ZT passed with flying color and out-baton/pry everything else, the conversation would be very different, and some people would not be calling this thread silly.
Just because people have different opinion on what their knives need/should be able to do doesn't you should condescend & belittle them, even tho they might be the minority.
The key is, he is comparing one knife vs the other for a particular task(whether you need it or not), one failed, and it happens to be 2x more expensive and marketed as a tank.
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Hasn't happened to me with my 0561, but I guess it's possible. Still, in real life there's really no chance you'll need to do a spine whack. I can see prying being needed in an emergency, but can't really picture any situation that would require a spine whack. Even if you need to use the knife as a hammer, can always use the side or bottom of it.
I just wonder during a task, if it requires me to stab something, and I get the angle wrong meaning hitting the spine slightly first, would it close on my hand and possible mangle some digits.
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And some others would...remember this thread?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1286779-You-can-t-do-THAT-with-a-ZT
Some folks turned into downright dicks in it.
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Well then, don't stab things. Also, you might consider toning the language down, this side of the forum is family friendly:thumbup:
Higher price does not mean higher performance. A $10 Mora would have probably outperformed them both.
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Wouldn't the flipper act as a guard to prevent the knife from closing on your hand? As long as your fingers are all the way up to the guard, it won't be able to close.
I think beside geometry, steel type and heat treat does play a major role in this case.
I have ever do some test by stabbing wood with the tip of my ZT0180 with full force and pry off like hundreds time with out any damage at the very tip. I know 180 does have thicker geometry than 620 but I'm sure if it wasn't Vanadis4E it will failed long time ago.
(Don't let the picture fool you the block of wood in the pic is 4"x 4" and the hole is very deep)
The another knife was a custom made of W1 clay hardening and it failed after about 10 stabbed.
I have ever do some test by stabbing wood with the tip of my ZT0180 with full force and pry off like hundreds time with out any damage at the very tip. I know 180 does have thicker geometry than 620 but I'm sure if it wasn't Vanadis4E it will failed long time ago.
(Don't let the picture fool you the block of wood in the pic is 4"x 4" and the hole is very deep)
The another knife was a custom made of W1 clay hardening and it failed after about 10 stabbed.
To baton or not baton, that is the question. I have a couple of ZT knives. And no, I am not going to baton with either of them. Back in the day we were instructed to use the right tool for the job, and in this case, an axe would have been a wonderful solution. Or what about a really study fixed blade?
So why is it we want to push our tools beyond their normal range of use? Probably because we as humans can never be satisfied. We just have to push the envelope and then delight in the complaint session that surely follows such folly.
So why is it we want to push our tools beyond their normal range of use? Probably because we as humans can never be satisfied. We just have to push the envelope and then delight in the complaint session that surely follows such folly.
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This is my EDC, I carry a dedicated prybar, besides my SAK, and an Esse 4 in my car, the right tool for the job
Charr
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That's unlikely to be honest, because the repeated smacks from the batoning and the single impact from stabbing are very different in terms of how much stress they put on the blade but you should try it out if you're worried. You might have to get somewhat creative with the way to hold the knife, or use a chain-mail glove if you have one (no seriously, I know a bunch pf people here who do...) and see if the knife fails. I personally doubt it will, but that would be a much better gauge of the performance of the knife for it's intended use, and if it failed there, then I would be worried and it might be worth a talk with ZT...that is of course after you get the current damage to the blade fixed
I think beside geometry, steel type and heat treat does play a major role in this case.
I have ever do some test by stabbing wood with the tip of my ZT0180 with full force and pry off like hundreds time with out any damage at the very tip. I know 180 does have thicker geometry than 620 but I'm sure if it wasn't Vanadis4E it will failed long time ago.
(Don't let the picture fool you the block of wood in the pic is 4"x 4" and the hole is very deep)
The another knife was a custom made of W1 clay hardening and it failed after about 10 stabbed.
The 0180 is a BEAST of a knife. I have one too, and a lot of the difference is in the Vanadis 4E, but that steel isn't really in the same category as Elmax anymore either. It's a tool steel, very similar to 4V, and its got performance between M4 and 3V in terms of toughness/wear resistance ratio, which puts it very high up in terms of performance in blades.
That very thick tip is a lot of the difference too though. I have had a few knives with 4V and Vanadis 4E, but the 0180 is one of the toughest in terms of beating on it just because the edge geometry is thicker in general as well. I have yet to manage to damage my 0180, but I also wouldn't take it out to go hunting personally. Just a little too thick for that. A good beater knife for most general tasks though.
This is my EDC, I carry a dedicated prybar, besides my SAK, and an Esse 4 in my car, the right tool for the job
Do you worry that if you stabbed something your knife may close on your hand? I am surprised my ZT even failed the spine whack test...
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No, I'm not worried, I edc a Seb 25, Strider SNG and Hinderer XM 18, and have use them hard and never one single problem, Im pretty sure I can stab at a cars door and they would all go thru, never had a problem and I use them for everything, except prying, that's what the titanium pry bar is for
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What would involve stabbing full-force, besides a made-up/fantasy scenario?
If lock strength is so important, then carry a fixed blade. But again, steel will play a big role in performance.
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Exactly this or if a folder is necessary, get a Cold Steel.
Charr
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If it is failing, then it is because the lock is not set right, and because it has a steel lockbar interface. That's the downside to steel interfaces. They don't wear over time and your lock won't travel, but you lose the natural ability of titanium to gall, or "stick" to steel that keeps titanium lockbars from slipping on their own most of the time.
If the lock is set in the right place, then it usually isn't a problem, but with the recent trend of everyone wanting early lockup on their knives, most companies still try for that even though you really don't want an early engagement with a steel insert.
And I also have a Sebenza 25, and have had an SNG and XM-18, and have never had a problem with any of them.
I also regularly EDC a Shirogorov 95T, which has a steel insert, but much better overall geometry in the lock (though not particularly late lockup either), and have never had a problem with it either.
And yeah, if it's as much of a problem as it sounds, then you honestly should look into a Fixed blade for EDC instead. There are a lot of good companies that make fixed blades in Elmax and other good steels as well.
You beat me to a very good point again there, Blues
What does hard use exactly entail?
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Yeah, Blues B uses his knives, beats on them, and I haven't read a single post from him that his knife failed, pretty sure he stabbed at least some pretty hard surfaces