SanRenMu 710

[effer]

ATS-34 is a Japanese steel, and I am pretty positive that you wouldn't see it in any Chinese knives. The best steel you can get is 9Cr18MoV.

I know that ATS-34 is Japanese, but if Spyderco can import S30V to China from US (even if cost of the steel is doubled), don't you think that ATS-34 can be imported too (at doubled price). Japan is somewhat closer to China, and I believe ATS-34 is cheaper than S30V. Just a theory... I know nothing for sure... just speculating....

 

[richdkao]

Well unfortunately this kind of thing has always happened and will probably continue to happen on into the future. A few years ago when I was making for the first time some mini titanium pry bars a company rep got in touch with me interested in looking at them after seeing one. I sent him one at his request only to notice shortly after that they were now offering a mini ti pry bar. When I asked him about that,since it looked similar to mine his answer was rather telling. I later learned that the quote response he gave me was a few lines from a somewhat famous song by RUSH, Entre Nous. "Just between us, I think its time for us to realize the spaces in between leave room for us to grow". Basically I took from that that he was suggesting there are enough differences between the two to make them unique thanking me for the influence or inspiration to come up with his own version and like the song seems to indicate we are two planets to each other, drifting in our orbits to a brief eclipse, alone and yet together like two passing ships. Influencing each other as we roll through our routines and so on.

Later when I submitted a proto-type folder to a company for potential it was rejected as others have been when I had some bold idea (or at least it seemed that way at the time) and later noticed some new knife in their line up that sure seemed pretty dang close there is not much one can do about it but snicker and move on you know? It happens. Such is life I guess. So if we look at the 710 and the Sebenza we can see one was influenced by the other but when you compare them and really compare them there are a lot of spaces inbetween. At least that was what I got out of a response from a corporate entity when I dealt with something like this. When you look at that Land copy of the 14205 there are not many spaces left because it seems to be pretty much neck and neck apples to apples the same dang knife with a different name stamped on it. But that is Land, not Sanrenmu. So that was my point.

STR

For your information
Land is a subsidiary of Sanrenmu

 

[MikeC]

I tried to go Chinese free a while back, well in truth about 9 years or so ago, rounded up everything in the office and house that I could find made in China or any other country than US or USA on it and boxed it up. Tried to start over YOU CAN"T DO IT, unless you want to live in a hole in the ground probably dug by hand. Try it for a while like say 3 days and see how far you get. Problem is with all the outsourcing your fridge may have been assembled here in the United States but is comprised of components from all over the world, etc.

The knife and china thing sucks without a doubt, but we collectively as a nation have made poor choices at the ballet box for years on both sides of the isle and now were collectively paying for it and its only going to get worse. This knife issue is just a microcosm of something so much bigger.

 

[effer]

I tried to go Chinese free a while back, well in truth about 9 years or so ago, rounded up everything in the office and house that I could find made in China or any other country than US or USA on it and boxed it up. Tried to start over YOU CAN"T DO IT, unless you want to live in a hole in the ground probably dug by hand. Try it for a while like say 3 days and see how far you get. Problem is with all the outsourcing your fridge may have been assembled here in the United States but is comprised of components from all over the world, etc.

The knife and china thing sucks without a doubt, but we collectively as a nation have made poor choices at the ballet box for years on both sides of the isle and now were collectively paying for it and its only going to get worse. This knife issue is just a microcosm of something so much bigger.

Welcome to Capitalism and Globalization.
Stopping this train is next to impossible. Need to adapt.

 

[STR]

For your information
Land is a subsidiary of Sanrenmu

Yeah I know. As I said earlier I mistook the name in err going by memory. I meant to say Ganzo and for all I know they are a subsidiary also but whatever the case, they appear to make different knives and to be the one doing the more actual clone copies.

STR

 

[Sep]

I tried to go Chinese free a while back, well in truth about 9 years or so ago, rounded up everything in the office and house that I could find made in China or any other country than US or USA on it and boxed it up. Tried to start over YOU CAN"T DO IT, unless you want to live in a hole in the ground probably dug by hand. Try it for a while like say 3 days and see how far you get. Problem is with all the outsourcing your fridge may have been assembled here in the United States but is comprised of components from all over the world, etc.

The knife and china thing sucks without a doubt, but we collectively as a nation have made poor choices at the ballet box for years on both sides of the isle and now were collectively paying for it and its only going to get worse. This knife issue is just a microcosm of something so much bigger.

Have we really made poor choices? I'm going to put it a different way.

Let's say we collectively refuse to buy cheap imports, and let's assume a conservative estimate that local goods sell for 4 times the price of imported goods. This effectively means that to maintain our current standard of living we have to spend 4 times as much money. To put it a different way, with your current earning you can only afford a quarter of what you currently own.

The easiest way to picture it is by taking a quarter of your current income and imagine your standard of living with that amount. What can you afford if you only earn a quarter of what you earn today?

 

[J85909266]

For the record, I do not care about country of manufacture. I do not care about intellectual property.

Knives are awesome, and it bothers me to see people disrespecting them by praising and endorsing obscure knock-offs.

I do not get the minimalist mentality. Knives are not just some junk I buy to get by. They are something I take pride and pleasure in. They are a hobby and an interest. When I hold and use my knife, I want to love it. I want to be impressed by what I'm using, and know that it is legitimate. It's not some lame hand-me-down design with sub par materials, built to function. I want it to be the real deal.

Threads like this severely hurt my opinion of this community. I wish I could articulate better my sentiments, but all in all, I'm just disappointed.

 

[STR]

For the record, I do not care about country of manufacture. I do not care about intellectual property.

Knives are awesome, and it bothers me to see people disrespecting them by praising and endorsing obscure knock-offs.

I do not get the minimalist mentality. Knives are not just some junk I buy to get by. They are something I take pride and pleasure in. They are a hobby and an interest. When I hold and use my knife, I want to love it. I want to be impressed by what I'm using, and know that it is legitimate. It's not some lame hand-me-down design with sub par materials, built to function. I want it to be the real deal.

Threads like this severely hurt my opinion of this community. I wish I could articulate better my sentiments, but all in all, I'm just disappointed.

Seems you insist the 710 is a knock off when I've pointed out how it is nothing of the sort but just a knife obviously different even from a distance to anyone that knows both models. This and the 939 are the only two I own so I don't know what knock offs you accuse me of buying exactly but I do not consider myself to be the purchaser of a knock off as you said earlier. For one the size of this 710 is smaller than the Sebenza. Its a different material, with a different stop pin which is smaller and a shoulder type free floating pin as opposed to a screwed down type in the Sebenza, slightly different handle shape, two spacers in the rear in the way of fancy stand offs instead of one like the Sebenza and its heavier than the Sebenza and does not sport a bushing in the pivot, or an S30V, BG42 or ATS34 blade but a Chinese steel instead and it comes with a tip down carry clip only not a tip up carry pocket clip.

How can it possibly be a knock off when it has all these differences? There are distinct differences between the two and more than a few. Are you suggesting that just because it looks similar that its deemed a knock off in your eyes? If so then you must be disappointed in general with many many other knives out there because the Sebenza and the Sanrenmu 710 are about as similar as the Martin Tejas and Caswell EDC are to each other and I could site many many more. There are more similarities between the Buck 110 and the Schrade LB7 than there are these two knives. To my knowledge the other 939 I own currently from SanRenmu is not a copy of any knife out there that I've seen. I believe its one they did themselves.

STR

 

[Sal Glesser]

There's a book out called "a year without China". They couldn't do it either.

sal

 

[00max00]

There's a book out called "a year without China". They couldn't do it either.

sal

Just wonder how did people around world live their life when China shut their door tight under Mao's iron hand dictatorial regime? Had the people of USA staved to death,wandered on the street naked and hungry or something like that?

 

[Sal Glesser]

The people of China feel that Mao saved their country. From 500 million starving to a world leader in 60 years. He is revered like some of our great historical leaders.

China is not very communistic now, more like the US / Europe.

sal

 

[Sep]

Just wonder how did people around world live their life when China shut their door tight under Mao's iron hand dictatorial regime? Had the people of USA staved to death,wandered on the street naked and hungry or something like that?

No, but we were poorer because we could afford to buy less stuff.

 

[Sep]

The people of China feel that Mao saved their country. From 500 million starving to a world leader in 60 years. He is revered like some of our great historical leaders.

China is not very communistic now, more like the US / Europe.

sal

The credit for bringing China to market economy belongs to Deng Xiaoping, whose ideology is so different from Mao's that he was purged twice by Mao during the cultural revolution.

In many ways China is more capitalistic than the western world. Since you are familiar with how business is done in China (just about anything can be had for a price), you should agree.

China remains nominally communist because people on top doesn't want to give up their power. Simple as that.

 

[effer]

I do not get the minimalist mentality. Knives are not just some junk I buy to get by. They are something I take pride and pleasure in. They are a hobby and an interest. When I hold and use my knife, I want to love it. I want to be impressed by what I'm using, and know that it is legitimate. It's not some lame hand-me-down design with sub par materials, built to function. I want it to be the real deal.

Just wondering where do you draw a line regarding that minimalist mentality. It seems to me that one of the knives that you own was produced by great USA company in 3rd generation with stainless steel handles and 3" AUS-6 blade (and also with frn handles and VG-10 blade). So, are you sure that 8cr13mov is sub par to AUS-6. You can't really comment on quality of that minimalistic knife, if you never handled one. I was very impressed with the quality and consistency of that minimalistic knife (and I do own Sebenza). I would say it is definitely not worse (if not better), than that other 3rd gen AUS-6 folder. So, if it is not about the materials and not about the quality, than is it just about the price? If it is 3 times cheaper it can't be good? Is something inside turning when less than $50 is spent on the purchase?

There is a joke: One snob comes to another and says, "Look here, I bought this suit for $30K". Another replies, "You're a loser, I have spent $45K on mine and it is just like it".

Who says what you can't buy a cheap knife and expensive one at the same time. As I have said, I own Sebenza and 710. Is this bad?

I totally get the thing about the design. I really hope SRM stops being "inspired" by other's work, they have potential to come up with their own designs and they have several of those. Also keep in mind that SRM is not the only one who did that. Quite a number of well respected and loved knife manufacturers have done something like this.

Edit: I meant to put "inspired" in double quotes.

 

[midnight flyer]

I totally get the thing about the design. I really hope SRM stops being inspired by other's work, they have potential to come up with their own designs and they have several of those. Also keep in mind that SRM is not the only one who did that. Quite a number of well respected and loved knife manufacturers have done something like this.

Hmmmm..... so when inspiration stops, what do we have? Should all the fine makers of knives quite incorporating the good design features, handle materials, blades steels or ergonomics they like on other knives into their own designs?

No more frame locks? No more liner locks? No more convex edges? No more thumbstuds? No more lanyard holes? No more serrated blades (OK... that wouldn't bother me ) ? No more flat grinds? No more coated blades? No more swedges? No more nail nicks? No more stainless/man made handles?

Should we all be driving model "T"s ? Should be be flying in propeller driven single seat planes?

Where would you draw the line on that statement? Inspiration is the mother of creation. I cannot imagine an author, artist, mathematician, designer, or craftsman that will not readily admit to be inspired by the works of others.

Simply put, inspiration fuels creativity. Creativity is the father of innovation and invention.

No doubt with a bit of inspection one can see the similarities in patterns of a stockman, soddie, English jack, a copperhead, a peanut, a trapper, etc. While they are all the same, they are all different. How about butcher's knives, skinners, fillet knives, etc. Should they quit making those models until they find out the source of their inspiration?

I don't recall seeing STR make a misstep here on the knife evaluation. And I can tell by his description of how he was treated by the guy he mailed his prybar to that he has "been to the rodeo". I would think that if anyone had a bone to pick with that knife as a "copy" or a "knockoff" it would be his axe to grind. But he didn't; he pointed out the many and significant differences and concluded the knife was no copy.

That's good enough for me.

Robert

 

[Tostig]

For the record, I do not care about country of manufacture. I do not care about intellectual property.

Knives are awesome, and it bothers me to see people disrespecting them by praising and endorsing obscure knock-offs.
I do not get the minimalist mentality. Knives are not just some junk I buy to get by. They are something I take pride and pleasure in. They are a hobby and an interest. When I hold and use my knife, I want to love it. I want to be impressed by what I'm using, and know that it is legitimate. It's not some lame hand-me-down design with sub par materials, built to function. I want it to be the real deal.

Threads like this severely hurt my opinion of this community. I wish I could articulate better my sentiments, but all in all, I'm just disappointed.

I dont have a dog in this fight.

Your post though is a little boggling.

First two bolded sentences do not really go together, unless I'm misreading them.

I do not get the minimalist mentality.

What minimalist mentality ?

Threads like this severely hurt my opinion of this community. I wish I could articulate better my sentiments, but all in all, I'm just disappointed

Hurt your opinion in what way ? What is it you are disappointed in ?

Tostig

 

[Tsujigiri]

Back to the knives, what do the people with the "axis lock" Chinese knives think of them? Like the Ganzo copy of the HK and the SanRenMu 962.

 

[Robert.B]

Back to the knives, what do the people with the "axis lock" Chinese knives think of them? Like the Ganzo copy of the HK and the SanRenMu 962.

i'll be able to comment on that one hopefully by the end of the week...and I have used benchmade axis so at least i'll have something to compare it to.

 

[cziv]

Anyone selling these on the North American side of the pond? I'd like to check out a couple of these controversial knives.

 

[bobusx]

I am stationed in Korea right now, and some of the vendor's here sell San Ren Mu knives. I picked up a 962 for 20,000 won (about 17 bucks), and I am quite impressed with it so far. Its only drawback is its weight. It makes me think of a Benchmade Vex, except with an axis lock instead of a liner lock. Not sure what the handles are made out of, they look like wood, but definitely are not. The website says Micarta.

I was able to get it shaving sharp on my basic sharpmaker after just a couple of minutes. Havn't done to much heavy cutting with it, I just got it 48 hours ago though. I use it for tasks that might damage my Small Sebenza, and if I can find a 710 at one of the vendors here, I will definitely pick one up to carry around in areas where I would be worried about losing the Seb.

So far I am very satisfied with SRM for the price, and their axis lock seems just as good as the original.