Scenario-Based Training: Commercial Plane Crash

What voltage does a plane use ??? is it 12-24-48???? There must be some light bulbs left that still work... A few of them at night time would be a great signel for miles... and they should also help working on dismantling the plane as long as possible with the cold

Sasha

i was writing my second post when you posted that. voltage conversion will be relatively easy with all the electronics around. Even if you don't know much about it, a lot of laptop motherboards have voltages labelled here and there.

And you don't have to match exactly- a 5v DC source will run a 6v lamp just fine.
 
keeping busy in days after that first night is important. with 30+ adults, a longhouse lodge isn't going to be out of the question. There's at least one axe on the plane, if I'm lucky there's someone like me packing a hatchet in luggage. (gotta figure out why I'd be flying, and a knife or survival related event is about the only thing I can think of. Family is all within west coast driving except my mother, but that would involve me doing demo of my work, too.)

Even with rain, wood is going to be fine for fuel, you can dry wood near the fire, split and keep a main fire going constantly.

I didn't mean to pass over the triage and medical care lightly, i'm just trying to limit response space.

Food becomes a problem early on, all I can say is that the likelyhood of an available firearm helps, I *can* make serviceable bows, and I've made and hunted with slingshots.

fall is going to be a less than ideal time for foraging, but should be doable. chokecherries and currants and whatnot are going to be crappy, but you may find some late ones. Juniper, mushrooms. Man, you picked a rough time of year for a non specialist. I'd be in heaven out here in the seirra or foothills.

superglue- incidentally, that's way up high on the list for medical use. As is clean clothing and tape.

Electric light should last days, maybe even weeks. Electricity is electricity, if you have the know how (I do, yay) just about anything will power flashlights for a while. laptops are really easy to cannibalize since they have the voltage conversion electronics needed for powering most any light bulb or LED you'll find.

If we're stuck for a month, I have to assume my HT and the plane's radios are irreparable. But in a general case I'd get an antenna WAY up and start boradcasting on 2m. I *do* travel with a portable directional loop, I should put the satellite data into my notebook so I can use that.

Koyote,

Dude, I am taking you with me when I fly from now on.:thumbup:

Yes, I picked fall on purpose. I was hoping someone would raise the foraging challenge. In the Rocky Mountian wooded environment, what kind of natural resources are we likely to find?
 
Koyote,

Dude, I am taking you with me when I fly from now on.:thumbup:

Yes, I picked fall on purpose. I was hoping someone would raise the foraging challenge. In the Rocky Mountian wooded environment, what kind of natural resources are we likely to find?

Coors Light???:p Sorry I couldnt resist
 
Im telling you leave some guys on there own and they are back to drinking beer. Everything is falling apart people are droping dead and they are drinking beer....
 
Okay, so we've worked the psychology to get everyone working towards a common goal, we're assisting the injured, and have started to make preparations. What are the priorities now and how would you go about meeting them for this amount of people? Specifically what items would you address and in what order? What materials would you use? Would your chosen materials be best suited for the task or should they be saved for a better use? Let's dig in now...
 
Well now I think we need to look at a more long term survive. I mean, chances of rescue decrese dramaticly over time, so I think signal fires need to be maintained, and ready to light, and keep one burning. Long term food procurement is starting to come into play.

Waste management as well, this amount of people is gonna need a plan set into place for it....

Need to keep up on changing dressings, too. Try to avoid infection.
 
Well now I think we need to look at a more long term survive. I mean, chances of rescue decrese dramaticly over time, so I think signal fires need to be maintained, and ready to light, and keep one burning. Long term food procurement is starting to come into play.

Waste management as well, this amount of people is gonna need a plan set into place for it....

Need to keep up on changing dressings, too. Try to avoid infection.

Excellent. So how and where do you set up latrines and cooking/eating areas, and where do you put them in relation to each other (consider sanitation AND curious clawed wildlife...).

Water sources? What if all the water on the plane evaporated in the fire?
 
Waste needs to be away from camp, and out of danger from contaminating water sources. A trench type latrine, and burning waste is an option. There is plenty of fuel, and hydrolic fluids to aid in this. You just dont want it too far away so people get lost going to and from, and keep in mind peoples limitations as far a travel might be limited due to injury.

Cooking. Well you dont wanna attract all sorts of wildlife, but I think its unavoidable while cooking, just maybe burning garbage and carefull storage and preservation of foods will help alot. No matter what humans will make garbage, so That will have to be burned or buried to keep scavengers at bay....
 
The food attracting animals is where working in shifts comes in handy. Guys like me stay up all night and sleep all day. Have them keep ready watch at night. Others during the day. With all of the options we have discussed you should have no trouble keepin critters at bay. Waste needs to absolutely be downhill from your location. Downwind may not always be a viable option, but I'd rather smell it than taste it...
 
YAY! SKILLS!!!

Assess the immediate danger, either from the plane, the environment, or other people in your party. Quickly spitball an initial action plan, such as moving people away from the crash site to a temporary rallying location. Bonus points if it provides some measure of natural shelter.

Although it is easy to blast the "Type A a**holes," there is a reason that law enforcement agencies teach their officers "command presence." This means portraying confidence and persisting, not necessarily sreaming orders at scared people. "Relax Francis. We have scared and injurred people here. We're NOT going to do a forced march up to the top of the mountain to wave at passing planes." We have a lot we need to do and not a lot of time. I'm counting on you to help these people through this."

Everybody needs a job. Start assigning people tasks. Assess who has medical or other useful training.
"Please help carry that injurred lady over to those trees. This guy will help you."
"You - I need you to walk Steve over to those trees and make sure he doesn't try to light a cigarette."

"Ladies - Pleas gather those children together and move them over that way. Let them know we'll be okay."


After the immediate situation has been addressed, (We are no longer in immediate danger of some yahoo igniting the plane and we have some idea of how many passengers are injurred and how severe those injuries are.) We can start looking to other issues. Fire and shelter will be priorities, given the weather conditions of this scenario. the plane may not offer much in the way of shelter, at least initially, if there is significant risk of explosion. Fuel might be helpful in lighting a fire, however.

Again, you have multiple survivors that will come from all walks of life. Some may be crew members who will either feel obligated to "lead" or at least feel some obligation to "hold it together" for the sake of the passengers. They may also possess useful information regarding equipment and material that may be available on the plane. They may also have some idea of what the airline and FAA actions will likely be and what the timeline looks like.

With the current wars in Iraq and Afganistan, a large number of active duty military personnel are traveling on commercial flights. there is a good possibility that you will have one or more among your survivors. These people have useful training, know how to handle stressful situations, are used to taking orders, and working as part of a team to accomplish a goal. They may be among your most helpful assets.

Rather than having everybody clustered together or working on the same task, it is much more efficient to have various teams working simultaneously. Teams can be assigned fire, shelter, water, scavenging the wreck, caring for the injurred, dealing with bodies, gathering firewood, etc. Make sure to set parameters. People should know when to be back by, and for those teams tasked with venturing out, they should have a clear idea of how far to go as well.

That's enough for now. I'll pick this up again in a bit.

-- FLIX

FLIX nailed down a lot of important stuff right away at the beginning of the thread. Awesome post, brother!

Mentioned here is people venturing out and coming back by certain times. Others mentioned people venturing out. as we all know from encountering clueless dayhikers, a lot of people have no idea how to "stay found" in the wilderness. how do manage this possible problem? A big bummer is having to mount your own SAR operation when you are already dealing with the major catastrophe at hand. People wandering off in these situations is very likely. Thoughts?
 
I missed flixs post. There is soome great approaches in it. I agree with all of it:thumbup: Nice one bro!!
 
Brian, I would love to see regular critical thinking scenarios like this. It really gets the gears turning, and is a great training tool. :thumbup:

Glad you like them, jw! Me, too -- I learn so much from everyone on these threads. Great brainstorming tools and the closest we can get to actually training in an online forum IMHO. If you have any scenarios that come to mind, folks, please put them up for discussion!!! :thumbup:
 
I agree. I think we see alot on steel(Im not complaining;)), but not enough of these types of things, that will really come into use in a real situation......

People on here bring alot to the table, and I love seeing both sides of the gun so to speak:thumbup: We have some really awesome contributers here, makes this place great!
 
36 miles of wire? That's a lot of snares. Move from crash site to treeline, better chance of shelter from a downed fuel leaking aircraft. If the aircraft is safe to approach, remomve the food stores, blankets, water, alcohol, wire, cushions, life preservers etc. The type A's? Ignore them and get the job done. Priorities are shelter, first aid, fire, signalling, water and food. Give people jobs, sheep respond better to commands than requests. Even assign someone to watch the catatonic ones, they might wander away causing more stress. Just hope the zombies don't show up. Waca waca
 
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