Scenario-Based Training: Commercial Plane Crash

dougo83 said:
The food attracting animals is where working in shifts comes in handy. Guys like me stay up all night and sleep all day. Have them keep ready watch at night. Others during the day. With all of the options we have discussed you should have no trouble keepin critters at bay. Waste needs to absolutely be downhill from your location. Downwind may not always be a viable option, but I'd rather smell it than taste it...
Click to expand...

Manpower is not the issue. Provided you come up with weapons, attracting animals is a bonus. Waste and offal from cleaning is bait. bait + game + projectiles = meat.
 
maybe you could peel up carpet to layer on lean-to's and lots of seat belt strapping and buckles for fastening or home backboards from doors absolutly no telling what you could find in luggage. I friend of mine use to travel for a computer company all over the country and he had a suitcase full of tools. I agree with eating the food, if all else add a fat layer, peanuts for everyone. Jet fuel isn't as bad as gasoline but it might be closer to kerosen than diesel, if you took some rag to make a wick and got some fuel might make small stove or lanterns. maybe you could find some heavy trash bags to store water in. and put the latrine down wind and down hill. there may be more food in the fall to find if it isn't to late. as far as elelectir lights, did the batteries survive the crash.

leadership and appointting people to do jobs is important but assessing the problem at hand is an important skill too.

by the way DOES ANYONES CELL PHONE WORK, got a signal?

how could we put this off. Gee I tanked the obvious there. Pat
 
omniviking said:
by the way DOES ANYONES CELL PHONE WORK, got a signal?

how could we put this off. Gee I tanked the obvious there. Pat
Click to expand...

LMAO!, Pat! :D Very good. Actually, with cell phones these days, the first two things people do in dire situations are, 1) Try to get a signal and call/text someone, or, strangely enough, 2) start snapping pictures with the cell phone camera. ("The folks back home will NEVER believe this...")

The assumption here is that no cell signal is present. However, what about GPS locators on cell phones? Do the authorities have the smarts to ask relatives or co-workers of passengers on the manifest what their cell numbers are in case the location can be traced?
 
Brian Jones said:
LMAO!, Pat! :D Very good. Actually, with cell phones these days, the first two things people do in dire situations are, 1) Try to get a signal and call/text someone, or, strangely enough, 2) start snapping pictures with the cell phone camera. ("The folks back home will NEVER believe this...")

The assumption here is that no cell signal is present. However, what about GPS locators on cell phones? Do the authorities have the smarts to ask relatives or co-workers of passengers on the manifest what their cell numbers are in case the location can be traced?
Click to expand...

umm..oil and water??

On another more relevant note...what about the danged black box? Surely they track those things. And like I mentioned earlier...inflate the raft, they have a beacon...
 
Dougo, you mean the ELT. - Emergency Locator Transmitter that all U.S. commercial aircraft are required to carry. They don;t always make it through the crash, though. However, I was waiting for someone to mention it or something close. Cool!

Koyote, how do we fix it if it's broke? :D
 
Interestingly enough, any cell phone at pretty much any point in the history of modern cell phones would be doable in a situation like this. You fly a search plane with - um, to use non technical terms and simplify a bit- a "cell tower" in it. Any device that registers and matches a missing person, or someone who isn't an area resident or whatever, gets called.

Obviouslyu, it's not quite as easy as one paragraph makes it sound, but it's pretty possible.

I'd personally rather rely on a 40m LSB dedicated voice QRP transmitter with a wideband ssb capable receiver. I'm not aware of any production units, but there are kits and homebrew that get really small. Maybe I should look at projects for this more in depth.
 
Fixing the transmitter could be hard. If it's broken it is likely that it's REALLY broken. Soldering breaks are easy to trace and fix. Burned components can often be seen visually. Power supply issues are also easy to fix. If you've done something like blown the finals you are going to have trouble.

There are a LOT of radios on any plane, once you consider wifi and bluetooth and such. The trick is getting a long enough wave for atmospheric bounce.

These days getting a ham license isn't all that hard, I'd highly recommend it. Here's a few general links to see how a lifesving QRP (low power) transmitter could be built. Something like this you just transmit SOS until someone gets pissed off and decides to triangulate the "illegal" signal. :D If you have a receiver you can do a lot more. Or you could learn morse code, which you don't have to do for any ham license these days.

http://www.aa5tb.com/40mtx.html
http://www.qsl.net/k0kp/hbrew/qrp_tx.html


For hams, a handheld with 6m capability and a good roll up antenna will do okay during a sunspot cycle. But 6m doesn't bounce tremendously well.

As mentioned before, there are ham radio satellites that you can reach from a handheld with nothing more than a good antenna rig. Under 2 pounds extra weight.
 
Damn, Christof, and here i thought you just made wicked cool blades!!! :eek:

This is great stuff. Thank you for the amazing contributions to our thread. :thumbup:
 
Brian Jones said:
The assumption here is that no cell signal is present. However, what about GPS locators on cell phones? Do the authorities have the smarts to ask relatives or co-workers of passengers on the manifest what their cell numbers are in case the location can be traced?
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the cell company get the GPS co-ordinates from triangulation using cell towers? If there's no cell service...living in the West, I can assure you there are plenty of areas where that's the case....then even if you have the number you wouldn't be able to locate the phone. Koyote's idea of a transmitter in planes would work, though if the planes are flying over why not just look for the downed airliner?

I know there are some phones that have GPS built in and get it from a satellite but I'm talking about the average cell phone.
 
BlackHills said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the cell company get the GPS co-ordinates from triangulation using cell towers? If there's no cell service...living in the West, I can assure you there are plenty of areas where that's the case....then even if you have the number you wouldn't be able to locate the phone. Koyote's idea of a transmitter in planes would work, though if the planes are flying over why not just look for the downed airliner?

I know there are some phones that have GPS built in and get it from a satellite but I'm talking about the average cell phone.
Click to expand...

I would assume there are a few business types on the plane. Most use BlackBerrys and my old company used Nex(cough crap cough) Tel and we all had GPS on our phones....
 
Brian Jones said:
The assumption here is that no cell signal is present. However, what about GPS locators on cell phones? Do the authorities have the smarts to ask relatives or co-workers of passengers on the manifest what their cell numbers are in case the location can be traced?
Click to expand...

This is a great thread Brian, and I am really enjoying reading the posts on here. If I thought I could contribute something further that hasn't allready been said I would.

I do have one thought about the about GPS and getting located. Don't all commercial aircraft have a transponder that allways sends a signal on where the plane is? If this has allready been mentioned I'm sorry.:o
 
Duh, I always do that, read the first few pages and make a stupid cooment.

Thanks bro
 
dougo83 said:
I would assume there are a few business types on the plane. Most use BlackBerrys and my old company used Nex(cough crap cough) Tel and we all had GPS on our phones....
Click to expand...

Well, you know what happens when you assume....:D It's certainly a viable option but I wouldn't count it being set in stone.

I would think it would depend on where the plane is going, where it originated, what time of year, etc. If it's a regional airline going from one small town to another the chances of someone with a Blackberry on the plane decreases a lot.
 
Things have slowed down here a little bit so I hope nobody objects to me filling in some of the blanks. I'm taking a few liberties here because some of these facts have to be determined in order to continue with this scenario.

Day Three

OVERVIEW - Okay, we've survived the initial crash and spirited the survivors away to a safe distance. The plane itself is too damaged to provide a shelter, but will provide various useful components. Here is our group make-up: 21 souls survived the initial crash, including one crew member, a flight attendant, two soldiers returning from duty in the Middle East, five children, a police officer, a dentist, and 4 vetrans. Two survivors were travelling to hunt big game in the Rockies (seperately).

CASUALTIES - Of the 21, 6 were seriously injurred in the crash. Another 6 have moderate injuries but are not out of the game. We've lost two of the injurred, and one individual (one of the hunters) chose to strike out on his own. So now we are 18, with four being totally immobilized. According to our medic (the dentist), one of his patients has severe cranial trauma and will not likely survive without immediate rescue. Two other patients have broken bones which have been treated. The remaining injurred patient appears to have internal injuries and a concussion, but no further diagnosis or prognosis has been made.

Bodies recovered have been buried with stones some distance from the wreck in the opposite direction from where we set up our camp.

GROUP DYNAMIC - One member of our group, a high school gym teacher and military vetran, initially vied for "command" of our group. Although initially his efforts spurred the group into action, his might makes right attitude and contradictory orders left the group confused and scared. He tried to persuade the most fit and healthy to take what they needed and leave everybody else. I approached this individual with three other passengers, (the two active duty soldiers and the police officer) and this individual was convinced that being part of a team would be better than the alternative. I let him know that we would NOT descend into the Lord of the Flies, and that if he persisted, he would no longer be around to cause trouble. In the face of strong opposition, he crumbled. Since then, he has been pulling his weight, but certainly bears close observation.

I mentioned above that one of our group, a middle aged man who was travelling to hunt big game, has chosen to head off on his own. This person was disruptive and indicated he would have no part of babysitting a bunch of "pansies." Before leaving, he tried to appropriate the second hunter's firearm for himself but found two young soldiers had other ideas about that.

People are scared, but are startig to pull together. Getting a fire going and giving everyone concrete tasks really helped.

FIRE - Salvaged luggage and the wreck have been gone through and multiple lighters were found. Survivors have been instructed in the gathering of dry firewood from blowdowns and standing dead trees. Although most wood has been gathered by breaking it, a folding saw recovered from the luggage has been helpful. An axe was also recovered, but after an accident that nearly added to our casualty count, its use has been restricted to only three persons.

SHELTER - Two inflatable rafts aboard, one of which was intact and is being used as the roof of a shelter. It also provides rainwater runoff. The other raft was shredded but will be used in other ways. Relatively lage parts of the fuselage and wings have been cut off providing walls. The shelter can barely fit all of us crammed inside, and our medic is concerned that we are crowding the injurred. One of the passengers has suggested building a "Mandan Earth Lodge." This was initially dismissed as too labor intensive and unnecessary as we would probably be rescued right away. Upon discovering the broken remnants of the so-called "black box," we may well be here a while, so the earth lodge may be worth it. It has been looking more and more like snow will be here any day, so this would be a good shelter. Having a fire inside will help as well. A large amount of clothing has been recovered, providing plenty of insulation for our party, but many are lacking adequate rain gear. One of our group has started making ponchos from the ruined liferaft.

WATER - One of the emergency slieds deployed to evacuate the aircraft are being used as a rainwater collector. Several small containers, including a stainless coffee carafe and several metal bins have been pressed into service for water purification by boiling. Numerous disposable plastic water bottles, both empty and full, were recovered. They are being used to store boiled water. The rain has slowed down, so another water source will have to be located.

FOOD - A small amount of food was salvaged from the galley and luggage. We have also been able to gather a lot of berries. Although there are mushrooms everywhere, nobody among us is sufficiently knowledgable to distinguish between the edible and the poisonous. Big game is abundant. We have heard elk bugling, and have seen a large amount of deer sign. Our remaining hunter insists that he can bring down an elk. Deer and bear are also possible. We have a dilemma, however. Our hunter recovered his rifle, which was intact, but the case was significantly damaged. He is not sure if the rifle's scope is damaged, and there are no iron sites on it. The problem is that the hunter only has 12 cartridges for his rifle, and is hesitant to use them resighting his rifle. Dozens of snares have been set up, but it is too soon to know if our efforts will be fruitful. Acording to our flight attendant, the pilot was armed, but we have yet to recover his body or weapon.

RESCUE - As mentioned above, the ELB appears to have been destroyed in the crash. The cockpit was nearly disintigrated in the crash, so none oof the communications equipment there has been salvaged. Several cell phones have been salvaged from survivors, casualties, and luggage. We have not been able to get a signal with any of them, so we have opted to shut them off to preserve battery power. Perhaps we'll find a vantage point wher we can get a signal later. We have not heard or seen any sign of searchers. It is hunting season, so arguably there should be numerous hunters in these mountains, but we have yet to hear or see any sign of them.

Signal fire lays have been prepared and watchers have been tasked with lighting them if an aircraft is heard or seen. Additionally, a large "SOS" was laid out in a clearing nearby by our children. All teams venturing out have improvised signal mirrors and have been instructed how to use them. One of our group, a high school student, is apparently quite a tinkerer with elctronics. He seems to think that he can make an antenna from salvaged wire that will allow us to get a signal out. We have plenty of wire, and keeping him productively occupied certainly can't hurt.

More later,

-- FLIX
 
Okay, here's a real crash that just happened. Cell phone text messaging came in handy:


INCIDENT REPORT:
Vancouver - Plane Crash

LINE 1 - TIME OF REPORT: 1320 GMT 04
AUG 2008

LINE 2 - UNIT / ORGANIZATION: N/A

LINE 3 - TYPE OF INCIDENT: Plane Crash

LINE 4 - TIME OF INCIDENT: Sunday, 03 AUG 2008

LINE 5 - LOCATION: northern Vancouver Island

LINE 6 - CASUALTIES: Five dead, one injured.

LINE 7 - NARRATIVE: A small plane crashed Sunday on northern Vancouver Island, killing five people. Two survivors were found after one sent text messages to a friend giving their locations.

LINE 8 - ADDITIONAL OBSERVATIONS: One of the survivors were injured while the other was in good condition.

The Pacific Coastal Airlines plane was on a 30 minute flight from Port Hardy and Chamiss Bay. It went down 10 minutes into the flight outside Port Hardy.

The plane went down on a hillside dense with foliage, making it difficult to locate. The survivors cell phone is credited for bringing rescue crews to the crash location.

LINE 9 - ASSESSMENT: The airline company did not immediately know the cause of the crash.
 
we just had a plane crash here (Vancouver Island) . Survivorrs (2) used a cell phone, but SAR could'nt locate them right away.

There was lighters and fuel and a ax and plenty of wood around to build a smoky fire (add oil for smoke) . The one survivior that was was NOT injured (just bruises) and was ablebodied.

did'nt make a signal fire for the SAR Plane to see, which was flying overhead of the dense forest trying to spot the plane. Nor did he make use of the onboard survival kit, which had a MIRROR. The sun was out and where the wreckage was there was ample line of sight to the SAR palne flying overhead.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top