Schatt & Morgan?

[mrknife]

Carboniferous thanks, I'd recommend one as it's a burly, stout knife with elegance. As it was one of 600 (compare that with GEC's runs of 25 or less! Mind you, CASE/Bose Collabs are turned out in high numbers too...) it should be easy enough to locate.

Invoice Been very pleased with it thank you.

Here's a Heritage in Ebony. These were a mixed bunch, the quality was certainly variable on these knives which was a pity as Queen could've returned to the top of the tree if they had got this one sorted. They have steel liners and bolster, nice woods, great shield. My experience is that the bone ones, which oddly enough had brass liners, are more problem stricken: non existent snap, gappy, a real shame as they had potential. The wood ones I have seem to have acceptable F&F, snap & pull are quite light but OK, my main criticism is the blades themselves: rather short compared to handle length, big tang reducing the cutting edge and they're really thick and they arrived basically edgeless. However, with some work the carbon tunes up well and get a good one and these are desirable knives.:thumbup:

Coco Spear

ah i see, i got one of those coming, wish i had seen the angle and the comments. i was hesitant cause there werent enough angles provided. i got a gec 15 vibe from it and thought yeah why not lets give it a buy

 

[Will Power]

Neeman That's a grand Wormgroove Whittler you have there

mrknife The GEC 15 is a good bit shorter and slimmer than a Heritage, yet its blade is about the same (thinner stock though). As I said, if you get a good one you are likely to be satisfied.

Thanks, Will

 

[mrknife]

Neeman That's a grand Wormgroove Whittler you have there

mrknife The GEC 15 is a good bit shorter and slimmer than a Heritage, yet its blade is about the same (thinner stock though). As I said, if you get a good one you are likely to be satisfied.

Thanks, Will

thanks for the heads up! also, what can you tell me about that clip, it doesnt look very pointy and i was split between getting the spear point on the clip cause the clip looks a bit sloppy actually, not like the clips im used to

 

[Will Power]

Rather late at night over here, bedtime, so no pic possible. But the Heritage certainly has a good point to it and the blade is wider than a 15's. My main reservation is that the tang is over large thus reducing cutting edge and the blade and backspring are quite thick.

But, patience, you will judge for yourself soon and that's what counts

Regards, Will

 

[mrknife]

Rather late at night over here, bedtime, so no pic possible. But the Heritage certainly has a good point to it and the blade is wider than a 15's. My main reservation is that the tang is over large thus reducing cutting edge and the blade and backspring are quite thick.

But, patience, you will judge for yourself soon and that's what counts

Regards, Will

have a good one! thanks for all the info. gotta be able to put that logo some where

 

[Will Power]

 

[brownshoe]

I love my S&M. Being less than perfect can be endearing, just like their great bone, slick swedges and Ats34 steel

 

[black mamba]

Some of the older S&Ms were among the best factory production traditionals ever made. Great bone, great steel (ATS-34) and solid construction. Here are a few of my "keepers."

File & Wire Series I Large Toothpick

File & Wire Series III English Jack

File & Wire Series V Daddy Barlow

Keystone Series IX Stockman

Keystone Series II Gunstock Stockman

 

[mrknife]

Some of the older S&Ms were among the best factory production traditionals ever made. Great bone, great steel (ATS-34) and solid construction. Here are a few of my "keepers."

File & Wire Series III Large Toothpick

File & Wire Series III English Jack

File & Wire Series V Daddy Barlow

Keystone Series IX Stockman

Keystone Series II Gunstock Stockman

nice! ive been wondering for some time now, what exactly is file and wire tested? does that mean it is tough enough to cut wires?

 

[black mamba]

That was the gist of it, though I don't know if they really would. The F&Ws had the ATS-34 stainless, and it is hard to sharpen, so pretty tough stuff.

One interesting thing about the S&Ms is that so many sellers on the auction sites think the pattern numbers are serial numbers of so many knives. The last gunstock stockman picture of mine shows the model 043150 on the spey blade (04=bone, 3 for # of blades, 150 the pattern number), but was listed as #043 out of 150 made, which was completely wrong. Happens all the time.

 

[mrknife]

That was the gist of it, though I don't know if they really would. The F&Ws had the ATS-34 stainless, and it is hard to sharpen, so pretty tough stuff.

One interesting thing about the S&Ms is that so many sellers on the auction sites think the pattern numbers are serial numbers of so many knives. The last gunstock stockman picture of mine shows the model 043150 on the spey blade (04=bone, 3 for # of blades, 150 the pattern number), but was listed as #043 out of 150 made, which was completely wrong. Happens all the time.

fascinating! i wouldnt try it of course, but to think if the ATS 34 is that good! thanks for the info, now im excited about getting more

 

[rarreola]

F&W

 

[knowtracks]

nice! ive been wondering for some time now, what exactly is file and wire tested? does that mean it is tough enough to cut wires?

Actually the term came into being back in the day when Schatt & Morgan would test their blades by cutting a wire of a certain density and hardness without damaging the edge and then hitting the blade with a file to make sure the blade wasn't so hard that the file wouldn't mark it.
I'm not certain when Rockwell testing came into being (perhaps someone here knows) but I'm guessing that the File and Wire testing method was before Rockwell became widely used.

Oh by the way Jeff, the large toothpick you posted came in the 1st F&W Series, a medium @ 4 1/4" was in the 3rd.

As my signature will attest I've had the S&M bug for a Long time now, I love their history and as has been said here the diversity of patterns they produce plus the steel choices. I got started in 1991 when Queen came out with the Annual Reproduction Series, little did I know then that Bill Howard was the man behind the execution of the wide variety of old patterns. But as we have all come to see with Great Eastern Cutlery, Bill is an old pattern kind of guy!
Anyway that's what got me started and it has been a slippery slope ever since!!
The File and Wire Series is the top of their line and I have only had one that was not except-able. And I have them all. That particular knife was returned and a very except-able knife came back. I also have most of the Annual Reproduction Series sets and the 20th is the only set I have sent back. They were just not up to par and lets face it these knives are their premium knives and carry that price.
I loved the idea of the Heritage Series, with the 2 old catalogs reproduced and I truly do wish Queen had pursued them further. But this was after Bill had left Queen and the knives just didn't have the feel/look or the execution they needed to succeed. As it has been stated in this thread the tangs to blade ratio and the blade to handle ratio is off and they just don't look or feel right when using them. It really is an art form making traditional pocketknives and perhaps that is why we keep looking to the past to see how things were done.

Anyway to the OP, I would say Don't be afraid, find a dealer that you can trust, call him, tell him what you are looking for, ask him to check the knife you are ordering and if it don't cut the mustard SEND IT BACK! That's what I do, production knives, made by anyone, are not perfect, so don't expect them to be, but don't put up with large gaps, weak or over strong springs, wobble in the open position or terrible uneven grinds or burnt tips.
Schatt and Morgan have come to be known as Queens top of the line and I can tell you Queens standard D-2 line is a very good knife for the $. Just ask anyone who has a 2009 Blade forums Barlow. Which I do believe is the 1st pocketknife to carry both the S&M and Queen tang stamp.
If you are having trouble and want a good dealers name PM me I'll be glad to help.

Dave

 

[knarfeng]

The Rockwell tester was patented in 1914 and were first made commercially in the early 1920's.

 

[black mamba]

Oh by the way Jeff, the large toothpick you posted came in the 1st F&W Series, a medium @ 4 1/4" was in the 3rd.

Dave

Thanks, Dave, I made the correction in my post. I had one of those medium toothpicks, and it was very nice. The F&W 3 was my favorite series.

 

[knowtracks]

That's a nice Gunstock you posted Rarreola it came in the 1999 Annual Reproduction Set, Keystone Series they are also called. It was not a F&W Series knife, Queen did make a Gunstock in the F&W series, I'll see if I have a pic! The F&W series sports a Saturn shield and some variation in color but wormgroove bone covers. ( Up until lately, now Queen has started a stag F&W series) here are a few more patterns in that series...

Dave

 

[AusLoX]

 

[mrknife]

Actually the term came into being back in the day when Schatt & Morgan would test their blades by cutting a wire of a certain density and hardness without damaging the edge and then hitting the blade with a file to make sure the blade wasn't so hard that the file wouldn't mark it.
I'm not certain when Rockwell testing came into being (perhaps someone here knows) but I'm guessing that the File and Wire testing method was before Rockwell became widely used.

Oh by the way Jeff, the large toothpick you posted came in the 1st F&W Series, a medium @ 4 1/4" was in the 3rd.

As my signature will attest I've had the S&M bug for a Long time now, I love their history and as has been said here the diversity of patterns they produce plus the steel choices. I got started in 1991 when Queen came out with the Annual Reproduction Series, little did I know then that Bill Howard was the man behind the execution of the wide variety of old patterns. But as we have all come to see with Great Eastern Cutlery, Bill is an old pattern kind of guy!
Anyway that's what got me started and it has been a slippery slope ever since!!
The File and Wire Series is the top of their line and I have only had one that was not except-able. And I have them all. That particular knife was returned and a very except-able knife came back. I also have most of the Annual Reproduction Series sets and the 20th is the only set I have sent back. They were just not up to par and lets face it these knives are their premium knives and carry that price.
I loved the idea of the Heritage Series, with the 2 old catalogs reproduced and I truly do wish Queen had pursued them further. But this was after Bill had left Queen and the knives just didn't have the feel/look or the execution they needed to succeed. As it has been stated in this thread the tangs to blade ratio and the blade to handle ratio is off and they just don't look or feel right when using them. It really is an art form making traditional pocketknives and perhaps that is why we keep looking to the past to see how things were done.

Anyway to the OP, I would say Don't be afraid, find a dealer that you can trust, call him, tell him what you are looking for, ask him to check the knife you are ordering and if it don't cut the mustard SEND IT BACK! That's what I do, production knives, made by anyone, are not perfect, so don't expect them to be, but don't put up with large gaps, weak or over strong springs, wobble in the open position or terrible uneven grinds or burnt tips.
Schatt and Morgan have come to be known as Queens top of the line and I can tell you Queens standard D-2 line is a very good knife for the $. Just ask anyone who has a 2009 Blade forums Barlow. Which I do believe is the 1st pocketknife to carry both the S&M and Queen tang stamp.
If you are having trouble and want a good dealers name PM me I'll be glad to help.

Dave

much obliged, sir will do!

 

[2Dead]

 

[mrknife]

ha! the spear point does look better, shouldve gotten that one