Sebenza 25 Lock up question....

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d.weglarz13

Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,944
Okay, Update. Most of you read my thread yesterday about my knife coming back from CR with a completely rounded edge and tip, and the lock up being changed from 50% to 95%, after I specifically asked for them not to change the lock up.....

Well, many of you said to call the company, which of course I did today, and just wanted to give an update and had a question about lockup.

I spoke to Angela on the phone, and she said that nobody there sharpened my knife or touched the edge. I went on to explain that the knife was perfectly sharp when I sent it, as I didn't cut anything with it yet, and now it is dull, and with a slightly shorter tip. I actually had to say a couple times, that I don't want to sound crazy, and yes I was being very nice to her, but the edge came back completely changed. So, she said they will have to look at it.
She is sending me a pre paid label, which is very nice as I didn't want to spend another 30 bucks to send it and insure it! So far so good. And, since she said this is not a spa treatment, but a warranty issue, she said it would not take weeks, but days, so we will see how that goes, but I am trying to be positive about it. I explained that the blade would need to be replaced since so much steel was removed from the tip, and she said Chris will inspect it personally.

Just find it funny that the company is positive that they didn't touch my edge.....And yes, told her as we spoke that I was rubbing the blade on my finger and could never cut myself if I tried, but she seemed to act like I was incorrect some way in saying this, but again she was polite, as so was I, and hopefully they take care of it. Wow, never thought I should take a pic of the edge before sending it in for a NON sharpening job....



Now, I have a question on the lock up on my Sebenza 25.......When I sent it in, the lock up was about 50%, where the ceramic ball was marking the back of the tang of the blade at dead center. I loved this, and again asked them not to change it. Now, its at 95% to where it really looks to my eyes (20/20 vision!) that the ball is so far over now, that it is about touching the washer on the Non Lock side!
Okay, so I tell Angela this........

The company replied to me that every knife that leaves the shop, will always be over 50%, and to spec. She then said that the CR spec for lock up on the knife, is 90-95%, and should NEVER move on me.

So, I politely told her that personally, I wanted to remain at 50-60%, and was not happy with the 95% lockup, as I am smart enough to know from an engineering standpoint, that no matter what earthly material we are dealing with, in an application like this over years, anything will in fact wear away over time. So, she kept saying that she will have Chris look at it, but again the specs for the company is to not let any knife out of the factory with anything less than 90-95% lockup, which I am having a hard time with.


So, can you guys tell me what lock up your 25 is at? I am pretty sure I won't really see this thing move, but I don't want to think about having to send it in in the future again, due to the lock up being at its maximum wear point.
I have read in the past I think I remember most guys say like 70%? I could really use advice on this, because I am not happy with a 500 dollar knife lock bar touching the other slab, but seems this is to spec according to CR?

Any opinions? This can't be right.

Anyways, I am sending her in as soon as I get the shipping label in my email, and will let them take care of it, since she said it won't be average time (4-8 weeks) this time.

So guys, where is the lock up on your 25? And what would you say is "correct" for a brand new knife?

I personally would be happy with 65-70% even, but not 95.....even 98% lockup! So, what say you?

Thanks sincerely for the help AGAIN guys.

Dave
 
That's good to hear that it sounds like they're going to take care of you quickly, and with a personal inspection from the man himself. I like an earlier lockup, too, as my Large 21 sits around 50-60%, but I've not looked into the correct spec for the 25. From what I've read, CRK's are within spec as long as the lock bar/detent make no contact with the presentation side.
 
the 25s I have seen all have a very late lockup. Like they said, it is normal.

The 21s were a different animal.
 
"as I am smart enough to know from an engineering standpoint, that no matter what earthly material we are dealing with, in an application like this over years, anything will in fact wear away over time. "

The 25 has a ceramic ball contacting the tang of the blade. That's why there won't be any wear that will effect the lock-up. It's not a metal/metal contact. Even if there was wear, it's covered by CRK.

I am sure you are "smart enough" but CRK is "in the know." :)
 
I was waiting for you to unlock and update your other thread

I see we have another thread...
 
My 25 is probably close to 90%. My small regular Sebenza that has been carried for 7 years is about 50-60% and I don't think it has changed since new.
 
Mine is 90-95%


Have you considered that maybe Chris Reeve knives aren't for you? Geez.
 
I don't have mine in front of me right now, but I think the ball's contact spot on the tang is about 70%.

brownshoe said:
"as I am smart enough to know from an engineering standpoint, that no matter what earthly material we are dealing with, in an application like this over years, anything will in fact wear away over time. "

The 25 has a ceramic ball contacting the tang of the blade. That's why there won't be any wear that will effect the lock-up. It's not a metal/metal contact. Even if there was wear, it's covered by CRK.

I am sure you are "smart enough" but CRK is "in the know." :)
Click to expand...

You do realize that just because the ball is ceramic doesn't mean there won't be wear. It just means the ball won't wear very much, the tang will. Now is that a higher or lower wear rate than other interfaces? I think lower, but it will still wear. But you are right, I trust (through the many reports of excellent service on these forums) that if it ever gets too bad, then CRK will take care of it.

Tripton said:
Mine is 90-95%


Have you considered that maybe Chris Reeve knives aren't for you? Geez.
Click to expand...

Really? It sounds to me like he's had an unusually bad experience with CRK. They say they'll make it right and expedite it, so that's great. But are you saying that if anyone airs their concerns about something that doesn't sound right, it's really their fault for not just taking whatever a company gives them? I didn't realize that sheeple are CRK's ideal demographic.
 
Hi Dave

I visit this forum regularly but never posted or even registered before because I always found the answer to my questions already posted.
Now I've registered to post my new Sebenza 25 (bought few months ago) has a 60% lock up (more or less, perhaps 65%).

I'll follow this thread up with interest to know what the final solution is.

Good luck.
 
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Muaddib1116 said:
Really? It sounds to me like he's had an unusually bad experience with CRK. They say they'll make it right and expedite it, so that's great. But are you saying that if anyone airs their concerns about something that doesn't sound right, it's really their fault for not just taking whatever a company gives them? I didn't realize that sheeple are CRK's ideal demographic.
Click to expand...

I would guess that the comment was a response to the 3plus threads that have aired the "unusually bad experience" associated with this knife. (I say "plus" because these reports have been documented in other threads as well).

Perhaps the sentiment is ill-placed, but I tend to feel similarly. When someone seems to be complaining about a knife in every thread they post in, it seems that they are unhappy with it...so perhaps the product is not a good fit for them. I mean, golly, life is too short to be so unhappy:)
 
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My Sebenza 25 has 75% lock-up from factory. The lock bar comes close to the opposite scale, but the mark from the ceramic ball is about 75%. My Umnumzaan is a little later, at about 85%, with the lockbar sometimes touching the opposite scale under hard use. Neither of these knives ever exhibit any blade play, and I know if they ever do, CRK will warranty the issue because I trust that they stand behind their product. They specifically state this in the information, and it has been repeated countless times that CRK considers you "part of the family" when you chose to purchase their product. In short, I don't let the worry that my lockbar is moving prey on my mind, because at worst, I get a new knife, or new scale, if it ever becomes and issue. I am confident Chris Reeve will not let me suffer having lock-rock on one of his knives.

While, on this subject, my personal belief is knives are mostly assembled and inspected by humans, and as such many will have flaws and mix-up associated with them, including those "perfect" CRKs many of us covet. Also as humans, we have empathy, and usually a person, or company, will stands behind something they have made, as I feel that is second nature for the majority of folks. I do not think any of the knife companies that people fan-boy on this site are trying to steal from the public, or make enemies of humanity by destroying their own product, and providing crappy service out of spite. Most are either struggling to stay in business, or keep up with increasing demand, depending on their popularity.

Time for service also needs consideration. We live in a world where you can live in Indonesia, and buy knives made in Idaho, from a seller in Argentina, and have it at your door in a few days. With this convenience of purchasing choice and location, we sacrifice some waiting that was not in our lives when we just went down to the store to by a BUCK 119. If you want service you wait, if you want warranty, you wait, if you want something different, you wait, and so on. No knife fans I know are ever down to their last blade, to the point that their life is in danger if CRK doesn't get them there small 21 back in two days. Lets face it, we could all pick up a $12 CRKT, that would probably get us through for a few weeks until we were back in the land of Sebenza.

I really do not like how in the modern world of "forums" that the mud is slung and the smear-campaign is started before anyone even gets a chance to "make it right". I often feel like the forums are used as a threat of sorts, and that products are disparaged before the maker or seller even has a chance to react. The truth and particulars of the case of "the destroyed 25" that started these threads is something I cannot ever know, so why am I now part of the jury? Do I need to phone Angela to get her side of the story? How can I be impartial when reading these inflammatory things, without any word from the other side? I see this happen over and over on these forums and it almost never makes any sense when you look at where the situation ends up. A couple months ago someone went on a tirade against knife-art for selling them a bent sebenza. Well guess what? They made it right. Knifeart did what most would do. As another example, if you google "True North Knives", the first hit you get is some dude going on about how he thinks Neil is a bad guy that provides crap service. If this was true, why has my experience with TNK been stellar, and everything they did for me 1st Class? Did I just catch Neil on a good day? Is TNK popular because folks like the abuse? Anyways I digress.......

It just seems we are all forgetting to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which I think is sorely needed in this faceless world of internet forums.

Nuff said......sorry if I ranted a bit.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
Really? It sounds to me like he's had an unusually bad experience with CRK. They say they'll make it right and expedite it, so that's great. But are you saying that if anyone airs their concerns about something that doesn't sound right, it's really their fault for not just taking whatever a company gives them? I didn't realize that sheeple are CRK's ideal demographic.
Click to expand...


Look around. Unit hit it dead on.



Cute use of the word "sheeple" too. Speaks volumes about you.
 
When you only get one side of the story it's really hard to know for certain if the customer has or had a legitimate complaint and if the companies response was or was not appropriate. Even when the drama has played out with only one side of the story we will never know for certain if it was resolved fairly. Typically companies with a good reputation will act more than fairly usually giving the customer the benefit of the doubt as their reputation and the strength of there brand depends upon it.
 
What Cody said
I have 4 25's, the one I'm currently carrying has a 80% lock up on the lock bar and about 75% on the ceramic ball. I'll have to check the others and my zaans to see where their at. Personally, I prefer a later lock up, it gives me a better sense of security that the lock face will not fail. I also believe early lock up is over rated
 
Well, I've never had a 25, but I've had an Umnumzaan which has the same pivot as the 25 and from what I understand the same ceramic ball on the lock face. It was about 90%.
 
You keep saying you can draw the blade across your hand it is so blunt, you will be able to easily take pictures of the light reflection off that bad an edge. I would like to see that photo as I have doubts it came back from CRK like that.
I'm also wondering why you think the blade needs replaced ? There has been very little taken off the useable life of that blade and it is still perfectly functional, I expect CRK will tell you the same thing.
 
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