Sebenza 25 Lock up question....

Haze said:
I'm also wondering why you think the blade needs replaced ? There has been very little taken off the useable life of that blade and it is still perfectly functional, I expect CRK will tell you the same thing.
Click to expand...


Uhh...because the OP says he checks the blade centering with a micrometer.;)
 
kidcongo said:
My Sebenza 25 has 75% lock-up from factory. The lock bar comes close to the opposite scale, but the mark from the ceramic ball is about 75%. My Umnumzaan is a little later, at about 85%, with the lockbar sometimes touching the opposite scale under hard use. Neither of these knives ever exhibit any blade play, and I know if they ever do, CRK will warranty the issue because I trust that they stand behind their product. They specifically state this in the information, and it has been repeated countless times that CRK considers you "part of the family" when you chose to purchase their product. In short, I don't let the worry that my lockbar is moving prey on my mind, because at worst, I get a new knife, or new scale, if it ever becomes and issue. I am confident Chris Reeve will not let me suffer having lock-rock on one of his knives.

While, on this subject, my personal belief is knives are mostly assembled and inspected by humans, and as such many will have flaws and mix-up associated with them, including those "perfect" CRKs many of us covet. Also as humans, we have empathy, and usually a person, or company, will stands behind something they have made, as I feel that is second nature for the majority of folks. I do not think any of the knife companies that people fan-boy on this site are trying to steal from the public, or make enemies of humanity by destroying their own product, and providing crappy service out of spite. Most are either struggling to stay in business, or keep up with increasing demand, depending on their popularity.

Time for service also needs consideration. We live in a world where you can live in Indonesia, and buy knives made in Idaho, from a seller in Argentina, and have it at your door in a few days. With this convenience of purchasing choice and location, we sacrifice some waiting that was not in our lives when we just went down to the store to by a BUCK 119. If you want service you wait, if you want warranty, you wait, if you want something different, you wait, and so on. No knife fans I know are ever down to their last blade, to the point that their life is in danger if CRK doesn't get them there small 21 back in two days. Lets face it, we could all pick up a $12 CRKT, that would probably get us through for a few weeks until we were back in the land of Sebenza.

I really do not like how in the modern world of "forums" that the mud is slung and the smear-campaign is started before anyone even gets a chance to "make it right". I often feel like the forums are used as a threat of sorts, and that products are disparaged before the maker or seller even has a chance to react. The truth and particulars of the case of "the destroyed 25" that started these threads is something I cannot ever know, so why am I now part of the jury? Do I need to phone Angela to get her side of the story? How can I be impartial when reading these inflammatory things, without any word from the other side? I see this happen over and over on these forums and it almost never makes any sense when you look at where the situation ends up. A couple months ago someone went on a tirade against knife-art for selling them a bent sebenza. Well guess what? They made it right. Knifeart did what most would do. As another example, if you google "True North Knives", the first hit you get is some dude going on about how he thinks Neil is a bad guy that provides crap service. If this was true, why has my experience with TNK been stellar, and everything they did for me 1st Class? Did I just catch Neil on a good day? Is TNK popular because folks like the abuse? Anyways I digress.......

It just seems we are all forgetting to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which I think is sorely needed in this faceless world of internet forums.

Nuff said......sorry if I ranted a bit.
Click to expand...

^^This in my view pretty much nails it. I am so glad I am not in retail.
 
kidcongo said:
My Sebenza 25 has 75% lock-up from factory. The lock bar comes close to the opposite scale, but the mark from the ceramic ball is about 75%. My Umnumzaan is a little later, at about 85%, with the lockbar sometimes touching the opposite scale under hard use. Neither of these knives ever exhibit any blade play, and I know if they ever do, CRK will warranty the issue because I trust that they stand behind their product. They specifically state this in the information, and it has been repeated countless times that CRK considers you "part of the family" when you chose to purchase their product. In short, I don't let the worry that my lockbar is moving prey on my mind, because at worst, I get a new knife, or new scale, if it ever becomes and issue. I am confident Chris Reeve will not let me suffer having lock-rock on one of his knives.

While, on this subject, my personal belief is knives are mostly assembled and inspected by humans, and as such many will have flaws and mix-up associated with them, including those "perfect" CRKs many of us covet. Also as humans, we have empathy, and usually a person, or company, will stands behind something they have made, as I feel that is second nature for the majority of folks. I do not think any of the knife companies that people fan-boy on this site are trying to steal from the public, or make enemies of humanity by destroying their own product, and providing crappy service out of spite. Most are either struggling to stay in business, or keep up with increasing demand, depending on their popularity.

Time for service also needs consideration. We live in a world where you can live in Indonesia, and buy knives made in Idaho, from a seller in Argentina, and have it at your door in a few days. With this convenience of purchasing choice and location, we sacrifice some waiting that was not in our lives when we just went down to the store to by a BUCK 119. If you want service you wait, if you want warranty, you wait, if you want something different, you wait, and so on. No knife fans I know are ever down to their last blade, to the point that their life is in danger if CRK doesn't get them there small 21 back in two days. Lets face it, we could all pick up a $12 CRKT, that would probably get us through for a few weeks until we were back in the land of Sebenza.

I really do not like how in the modern world of "forums" that the mud is slung and the smear-campaign is started before anyone even gets a chance to "make it right". I often feel like the forums are used as a threat of sorts, and that products are disparaged before the maker or seller even has a chance to react. The truth and particulars of the case of "the destroyed 25" that started these threads is something I cannot ever know, so why am I now part of the jury? Do I need to phone Angela to get her side of the story? How can I be impartial when reading these inflammatory things, without any word from the other side? I see this happen over and over on these forums and it almost never makes any sense when you look at where the situation ends up. A couple months ago someone went on a tirade against knife-art for selling them a bent sebenza. Well guess what? They made it right. Knifeart did what most would do. As another example, if you google "True North Knives", the first hit you get is some dude going on about how he thinks Neil is a bad guy that provides crap service. If this was true, why has my experience with TNK been stellar, and everything they did for me 1st Class? Did I just catch Neil on a good day? Is TNK popular because folks like the abuse? Anyways I digress.......

It just seems we are all forgetting to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which I think is sorely needed in this faceless world of internet forums.

Nuff said......sorry if I ranted a bit.
Click to expand...

Good points, well said.

Tripton said:
Cute use of the word "sheeple" too. Speaks volumes about you.
Click to expand...
What exactly is it speaking?
 
[QUOTE It just seems we are all forgetting to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which I think is sorely needed in this faceless world of internet forums.

Nuff said......sorry if I ranted a bit.[/QUOTE]

No rant. Just plain common sense. Expectations are frequently built beyond reasonable on the forums, maybe due to misunderstanding. It seems to me, that if people are not satisfied with any product, that their first course of action should be to contact the manufacturer. The forum can't make a problem right, but Chris Reeve Knife can.
 
I have 2 currently and just sold my 3rd one.. they are all look about 80% but the ball is probably at 70%.
 
Okay having problems with my Internet so trying to do this on my phone.
So been at work with like no sleep past couple days so I haven't had a chance to update this thread. Let me say this. Another member PM'd me the other day suggesting I close the "destroyed" thread due to the fact that I didn't hear from the company yet. So I closed it.
When I went to go unlock the thread I couldn't find any option to do it so I figured once a thread gets closed it's closed for good. Maybe I was wrong?

In any case I started this thread about the lock up because I was told by CR that 95% was to spec and that all the knives come out of the factory as so.
But, I don't think that is the case as I remember hearing other guys had earlier lockups also. So I figure why not ask others what there's is at lock up wise. The knife is already sent out and Angela told me it would only be a few days most this time, so sent it out. Again, I wasn't able to get pics and wasn't home to try to set up a lightbox or use a buddies camera.
I think there has been a big misunderstanding. In no way at all, did I want to start any trouble, and that is why I closed the other thread in the first place.
I never said that CR is a crap company, or the service stunk, or anything like that. nor did I say I didn't want to remain a fan of their knives.. What I did say was that this is a will occasion it seems, that whoever serviced my knife that day, did a crap job.
Let me say this again, I have been a member here for years. And, I have learned a lot about knives, tools, metallurgy, material properties, etc.
So, when I see a chance to steer clear of a silly argument I always do. I do in fact, know what I'm talking about, whether we are speaking steel, ceramic, whatever. Everything wears over time, everything. And although CR will service it if needed ever, I just felt like I was right in feeling unsatisfied with the service of my knife that again, was brand-new before I sent it in for the washer. As far as lockup goes, I personally like an earlier lock up on my knives, that's it.

As far as the edge and tip, it was badly damaged, with a good deal steel lost in the process of sending it in, and again only to specifically asked them not to sharpen. I have bought and sold many lives over the years, a good deal of those here. And, the way the edge came back to me, I could never sell it saying "never sharpened, "if one day I did decide to sell it.
And furthermore, I don't feel like I should need to fix a problem by removing more steel when again it was a brand new knife never sharpened yet, just needed a washer.

This now, has nothing to do with how often I plan on using my knife, or if I plan on using it, sharpening, or whatever. It so happens that this knife specifically, I plan on keeping, and want to return carrying it on me every day, as I really miss the feel of opening and closing it in my hands.

And yes, it will in fact be sharpened many times in the future but that doesn't mean I want to know I have a knife that isn't new anymore, just because I sent it. Again also, I do not think CR is a bad company. Nor do I think their service is less than par.

Every company in the world makes mistakes sometimes, I just want mine fixed new again, since I didn't even get to bring myself to put the first hard use on her yet. Not even a first scratch.
And I couldn't help but just feel like I regret ever sending it in for the washer in the first place, but I shouldn't have to feel like that, and I am hopeful that CR will make it right.
CR knives aren't for me? That had me laughing. I can take it, it's okay.
Some people aren't happy with their knife so don't buy it? Or whatever? No. I LOVED the knife before sending it in and seeing the changes from whoever worked on it.
When I received it new, I was taken back at just how nice of a knife was.

I hope I clarified things a bit. And again, I don't have anything against CR as a company, in fact I plan on becoming an even bigger fan in the near future.

So, to all, thank you for listening, and no matter how you feel, thanks for your input.

Angela told me that Chris himself will look knife over, so that makes me feel a lot better. UPS label, takes four days for the shipping so the knife is not there yet. I am very anxious to hear the result, hoping that it all works out and that I am again a happy customer in the end.

Really, that is what I want. Thanks again for all the help guys, like always, all opinions are always welcome! And, glad to be in the CR family now.

Dave


edit: typing on my phone, sorry for grammar
 
That was well said. I think everyone needs to just take a step back and cool down a bit. d.weglarz13 may have started a bunch of threads about one central issue, and he may have gotten a bit hyperbolic in his anxiety, but I don't think he ever attempted to speak badly about CRK as a company. At the same time, I think a lot of people overreact to anything they see as criticism towards their knife maker of choice. I'm loathe to use the term fanboy, but I detect hints of it on these forums every now and then. I've read a number of threads where people go and drag a companies name through the mud, before even talking to them, but I don't see that as the case here.
 
These types of threads are always fascinating to me. Generally, someone is unhappy and believes that posting here about an issue will garner them faster service. Definitely not saying that everyone does it..some are just spirited about wanting something they paid so much for. I know I couldn't really afford what I spent on my first Sebenza..that may have something to do with it.
Either way, forums are a way for people to voice their approval as well as disapproval. Most of the time, giving someone a phone call and clearly explaining the situation is going to solve more problems than posting about it on the internets.
I think that alot of people have better eyes than I do lately..I can try to judge my lockup based on such a small surface...I can guess what it is...I could probably measure very accurately if I wanted to take up the time to do so but with minimal returns on the investment in time. I am good with anything over around 70%..Any good engineer would tell you why and it has nothing to do with wear. BTW- wear isn't as much of a factor as is density, hardness and pressure. Pressure isn't that great, so the other two are going to go for a very long time on both steel and ceramic. The ceramic will actually form a trough than wear any significant material.
 
You can unlock your original thread the same way you locked it. On the top of the first post click the administrative tab.
 
Please understand that every person on blade forums could profess about what your lock up OUGHT to be and Chris will have less than zero concern.

If that man deems 95% to be in spec, it is. I generally hold the belief that Chris knows more about what he wants in a knife than anyone here. I'd say he probably knows more about integrated locks than anyone here, also.

Perhaps he will appease your desire for earlier lock up, but honestly, I cannot understand wanting an item with a man's mark on it that is not made the way he wants it, but rather the way you feel it should be made. I'm not sure of your credentials, and I don't care to learn of them, but I'm guessing Chris has you beat when it comes to this topic.

My knives all lock up later than some forum experts might deem ideal, but I have never had a problem. If I do ever have a problem, I will seek the help of those that can actually help me instead of attempting to commiserate in public. I trust this route, which has served me well in the past, will continue to serve in the future;)
 
unit said:
Perhaps he will appease your desire for earlier lock up, but honestly, I cannot understand wanting an item with a man's mark on it that is not made the way he wants it, but rather the way you feel it should be made.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
I am not a 25 expert, but usually CRK lockup specs are within a range-between x% and y% . Chris likes a late lockup and seems to be liking a later one as time goes on. Chris has never struck me as a wasteful person. If late lockups were causing increased warranty repair he would not use them. The early lockup lasting longer theory has been discussed and dismissed many times.
Many of the ?'s asked here will only get you an opinion answer and would be better served with a call to CRK.
 
Last edited:
My two 25s are at 50%. One from last year, one from Blade Show 2014. My Zaans run about the same, and I have four of them.

That is from the wear mark on the tang, where the ball is actually resting when opened. Keep in mind the ball is inset slightly to the channel-side of the lock bar on these knives.

My 21 is at about 70%, and it lacks the ceramic ball interface of course.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top