Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Without going back through 28 pages
Has anyone experienced any lock failure, or problems in use?
Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary pushing going on -not that it isn't everyone's right to complain if they are not happy with the knife. Now all feel the need to see if theirs has it , when they wouldn't even think about it before. Once they find it, it plays on the mind.
Full disclosure-I have spent days working out blade movement(non CRK), that didn't affect use. It can drive you crazy(or crazier).
No matter what CRK considers normal, there are going to be a few beyond normal that need to be repaired. On this I am not sure where the line in the sand is.
 
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kidcongo said:
No.......you are reading me wrong. Damn netz! I think this whole subject is ridiculous, mostly. I guess my humour was lost.

What I know is all of my CRK frame locks have blades that will move, due to lock bar flex, when I push down on the tip of the blade with the handle on a hard surface.

Do I care about this? Not at all.
Will I care about this with a 31? Likely not.

My only point (barring the couple guys here with defective knives with side-to-side play) is that this so-called up/down lock-Rock is completely subjective.

All CRK framelock knives will do this. Every last one of them, no exceptions. It is only a question of how hard you push. Which is why this thread is mostly bunk. How hard is hard? What’s the baseline?

It’s a fun discussion. I may still throw all my CRKs away. Probably gonna shift over to Cold Steel, cause I do a LOT of spine whacking! :D

Cheers all. Sorry if I wasted anyone’s time in this thread.
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I definitely agree that all framelocks flex. And I’ve said this before, the table test is ridiculous. Haha.
If I cant feel the play with my fingers only, then I would consider the lockup solid.
 
kidcongo said:
My only point (barring the couple guys here with defective knives with side-to-side play) is that this so-called up/down lock-Rock is completely subjective.

All CRK framelock knives will do this. Every last one of them, no exceptions. It is only a question of how hard you push. Which is why this thread is mostly bunk. How hard is hard? What’s the baseline?
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The POINT here is that the 31's seem to require a lot less force to move, somehow you seem to miss that point over and over again.
 
353 said:
The POINT here is that the 31's seem to require a lot less force to move, somehow you seem to miss that point over and over again.
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No I don’t miss that point at all. I have never said anything along those lines.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I definitely agree that all framelocks flex. And I’ve said this before, the table test is ridiculous. Haha.
If I cant feel the play with my fingers only, then I would consider the lockup solid.
Click to expand...
I though we had agreed your knife was defective. I’m not sure it’s a good sample for testing.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Without going back through 28 pages
Has anyone experienced any lock failure, or problems in use?
Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary pushing going on -not that it isn't everyone's right to complain if they are not happy with the knife. Now all feel the need to see if theirs has it , when they wouldn't even think about it before. Once they find it, it plays on the mind.
Full disclosure-I have spent days working out blade movement(non CRK), that didn't affect use. It can drive you crazy(or crazier).
No matter what CRK considers normal, there are going to be a few beyond normal that need to be repaired. On this I am not sure where the line in the sand is.
Click to expand...

Sadly, the fact remains that CRK considers this “lock rock” NORMAL. Lock Rock leads to lock slippage and closure. That is what’s scary, especially when I had a umnumzaan close on my hand and cut it badly. A thinner bladed Sebenza is even scarier. I seriously hope they are able to address the issue.
 
WedgeAntilles said:
I agree, you should throw them all away. I run a halfway house for sad, pathetic, CRKs. PM me for my address and I'll put them into a good home to live out their sad, defective days.
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I wish I had seen this post earlier. Chucked em all in the trash. Gonna focus my collection on various Tri-Ad lock models. You’d be surprised the curious looks you get when you spine-whack your way through an apple.
 
I seem to have become a lightening rod for expressing my scepticism that we are witnessing the end-of-days for CRK due to release of a bunk knife model.

To clarify:

1- I love all you guys. Knife people are good people. It’s ok to disagree, and I like to hear view points that don’t jibe with my own.

2- I am ok with being wrong. No biggy. No one died.

3- I don’t own a 31 for a calibrated comparison against my 21s.

4- I made a decent effort to witness this “up/down” lock-rock in my collection of pre-31 CRKs and lo-and-behold, it was there in all my CRK framelock knives.

5- I am not the least concerned about this phenomenon, if it does not cause the lock to slip.

6- I am quite sure the 31 exhibits this phenomenon more readily than a 21, but question why anyone cares, if the lock remains secure during flex.

7- I have never ever bought into the idea of “bank vault lock-up”. That’s just stupid marketing, and certainly has never applied to any manufacturers frame-locks. Like, just look at any frame-lock.......that is a lock that will fail under extreme conditions, every time. You don’t need Cold Steel to prove that. Framelocks are “convenience locks”, not “safety locks”.

I hope people don’t misinterpret my posts as being on some pro-31 war brigade. I’m just trying to offer another perspective based on this endless post here, discussing at least one defective knife, and maybe a couple others. Sounds normal to me. I hope the 31 knife is a good one in the long run.
 
nyefmaker said:
That is what’s scary, especially when I had a umnumzaan close on my hand and cut it badly.
Click to expand...

Ive seen you tell this story quite a few times so I’m curious:

Was the knife bought new from a dealer?

Was it an old Zaan without the over travel stop?

thanks
 
kidcongo said:
I though we had agreed your knife was defective. I’m not sure it’s a good sample for testing.
Click to expand...

I would say mine isnt up to snuff, yes. Hope CRK agrees. However, I havent gotten another 31 to compare...so the jury is still out for me.
 
It’s normal, just like a ton of new and used Spyderco delicas, enduras, rookies, etc. that I’ve owned and own have ACTUAL lock rock/up-and-down back lock movement unless I over tighten the pivot screw and the close loses its spring. It’s normal, just like a ton of used and new benchmade axis lock knives I have owned and own have side to side play, unless I over tighten the pivot screw, thus losing the intended flowing action that’s supposed to be in an axis lock knife. But they’ve varied in degree from hardly noticeable to horrible or zero movement at all. I don’t like it, but it’s normal in that it happens. I still buy them and use them safely. And those are cases of actual lock rock and side to side play. This isn’t the case here.

Seems only a small group of folks are actually upset about all of this. Like many of you, my collection holds framelocks from various production, semi-production, mid-tech, whatever, and custom makers. With the right positioning and force I can make their blades “bow” or “tip” and their lock arms flex as described/demonstrated. Some 31s - which is a relatively new configuration - exhibit an exaggerated flex phenomenon. That sucks, but that isn’t an intended design feature.

Earlier today I made the blades bow and arms flex on the following framelocks:

-Rockstead Hizen

-Strider LEGO SNG

-Bester Ratel

-Large P, Lg Regular, Lg Classic, and Lg 21 sebenzas Umnum, small regulars, small classic, and small 21 sebenzas, Umfaan

-Spyderco Ti Military

-Spyderco Spydiechef

-Jürgen Schanz dppk

-Strider mini SJ75

The following framelocks barely had any blade bow and/or arm flex or nothing humanly detectable, and my hands and I communicate very well:

-Monkey Edge M. Strider SNG

-Small Cf inlay Inkosi

-Small Cf Insingo Inkosi

-Multiple Mnandis

-Marthinus W. Van Wyk model 2

-Sanremu 710 (someone unsolicitedly threw this in with an eBay purchase a decade ago)

Not much rhyme or reason there.

And those classic “hydraulic feel” and “bank vault like lockup” phrases hold some credence...both phrases were and are nods to the excellent CRK machining and tolerances. To most folks these phrases sounded intriguing, but do they hold much water?, eh not really. Do they make a point, yes they do, as stated just above. By the way, hydraulics can be sensitive, require care and maintenance, and do fail. And bank vaults? I can’t tell you how many of those I’ve ticked open and bypassed in my lifetime ;)
 
I had a small 31. The blade moved easily with light force from my hands. The lock never moved or disengaged. It was noticeable, it was there, and it was light force. This was not the table top thing that was mentioned in another post. It’s hard to explain. The blade moved but it wasn’t the lock bar. Anyways I sent it back assuming it was probably a bad one. I since when and bought a 21. It’s solid compared to what I experienced with the 31.
 
loon#r said:
It’s normal, just like a ton of new and used Spyderco delicas, enduras, rookies, etc. that I’ve owned and own have ACTUAL lock rock/up-and-down back lock movement unless I over tighten the pivot screw and the close loses its spring. It’s normal, just like a ton of used and new benchmade axis lock knives I have owned and own have side to side play, unless I over tighten the pivot screw, thus losing the intended flowing action that’s supposed to be in an axis lock knife. But they’ve varied in degree from hardly noticeable to horrible or zero movement at all. I don’t like it, but it’s normal in that it happens. I still buy them and use them safely. And those are cases of actual lock rock and side to side play. This isn’t the case here.

Seems only a small group of folks are actually upset about all of this. Like many of you, my collection holds framelocks from various production, semi-production, mid-tech, whatever, and custom makers. With the right positioning and force I can make their blades “bow” or “tip” and their lock arms flex as described/demonstrated. Some 31s - which is a relatively new configuration - exhibit an exaggerated flex phenomenon. That sucks, but that isn’t an intended design feature.

Earlier today I made the blades bow and arms flex on the following framelocks:

-Rockstead Hizen

-Strider LEGO SNG

-Bester Ratel

-Large P, Lg Regular, Lg Classic, and Lg 21 sebenzas Umnum, small regulars, small classic, and small 21 sebenzas, Umfaan

-Spyderco Ti Military

-Spyderco Spydiechef

-Jürgen Schanz dppk

-Strider mini SJ75

The following framelocks barely had any blade bow and/or arm flex or nothing humanly detectable, and my hands and I communicate very well:

-Monkey Edge M. Strider SNG

-Small Cf inlay Inkosi

-Small Cf Insingo Inkosi

-Multiple Mnandis

-Marthinus W. Van Wyk model 2

-Sanremu 710 (someone unsolicitedly threw this in with an eBay purchase a decade ago)

Not much rhyme or reason there.

And those classic “hydraulic feel” and “bank vault like lockup” phrases hold some credence...both phrases were and are nods to the excellent CRK machining and tolerances. To most folks these phrases sounded intriguing, but do they hold much water?, eh not really. Do they make a point, yes they do, as stated just above. By the way, hydraulics can be sensitive, require care and maintenance, and do fail. And bank vaults? I can’t tell you how many of those I’ve ticked open and bypassed in my lifetime ;)
Click to expand...

No one here is saying that lock flex isnt normal.
What is exhibited on the 31 is not normal...if this is normal...im out.

Just like you, I have an extensive collection, and all of the knives I own lock up solid. No side/side or rock, if they have it, it goes right back to the store or sold. Its not rocket science to make a folder properly. And when they are made properly, they are a dream to use. 21’s are excecuted perfectly.

kidcongo kidcongo got me into CRK’s a long time ago with his posts...he doesnt even know it.
I have a lot of respect for you both.

You however stated that “it seem like a small group of folks are upset about this.” On the flipside, there are a couple of you who dont even own a 31 who come in here telling people they are wrong. This bugs me.
Put your money where your mouth is and fork out the benjamins to buy a 31, test it yourself, and then come tell this group that it is normal.

We have seen an ownership change at CRK and it may not be for the best. No one wants to see CRK go down...especially not me. Thats what bugs me the most...if this isn’t rectified, CRK WILL lose business.

This is typed with all due respect to you loon#r loon#r , I just have to disagree.
 
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