Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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kidcongo said:
I gotta admit, the shout-out made me feel a bit sorry about this whole thing. I appreciate the sentiment and am glad I helped stoke your fire for CRKs. Sorry if I seemed to be singling you out. My mistake.

At the end of the day.......let’s face it......we are all suffering with the fall-out of the pandemic, whether we are directly affected or not. The mood of the world, in general, is at an all time low. It’s almost impossible to avoid.

One small hope I had, in the midst of this shit-show of our “new normal”, is that CRK would launch a rad new Sebenza for us all to drool over. I had actually told myself I would buy this knife as reward for working my way through the restrictions and taking the required risks to stay off the government dole.

If that knife also is a fail, life gets just that tiny little bit bleaker than it need be.

I was hoping I could provide some space for someone here to step in and say “hey......the knife is great.....I love it”. Seems like that is not happening.

It would take little to no effort for CRK to simply cancel the model and ramp 21 production back up. Maybe that is what should happen if the knife sucks as bad as is claimed.
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I want to love it. I love the 21. I love the improved feel of the action the ceramic interface provides. Mine doesn't click or dance or anything so I'd be fine just knowing it's safe. One of the main things I use my EDC for is cutting this incredibly dense rubberized foam at work. Really get's the knife stuck in there if you're cutting a thicker piece. Pulling a knife out of that cut tests a lock, and I don't want to feel like the beta tester for this design. Since there is that little bit of give, it effects my grug brained confidence level in the strength of it.

I wish CRK would address this and share some of their testing methodology and possibly provide a demonstration (shooting it in a dimly lit garage with a denim clad Andrew Demko is optional, but highly encouraged). If someone smarter than me gave me a really good explanation and demonstration on why I shouldn't worry about that flex feeling, I'd be OK putting the knife into service. I bought it to be a work knife.
 
Been fiddling with me small 31 for the last several days now. Any chance the “flexing” is just a result of the detent ball not being fully seated in its pocket? There’s obvious vertical play but I don’t see any movement of the lockbar.
 
kylemiller said:
I want to love it. I love the 21. I love the improved feel of the action the ceramic interface provides. Mine doesn't click or dance or anything so I'd be fine just knowing it's safe. One of the main things I use my EDC for is cutting this incredibly dense rubberized foam at work. Really get's the knife stuck in there if you're cutting a thicker piece. Pulling a knife out of that cut tests a lock, and I don't want to feel like the beta tester for this design. Since there is that little bit of give, it effects my grug brained confidence level in the strength of it.

I wish CRK would address this and share some of their testing methodology and possibly provide a demonstration (shooting it in a dimly lit garage with a denim clad Andrew Demko is optional, but highly encouraged). If someone smarter than me gave me a really good explanation and demonstration on why I shouldn't worry about that flex feeling, I'd be OK putting the knife into service. I bought it to be a work knife.
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Stick with the 21. It’s Chris Reeve’s Original Design. CHRIS REEVE. That’s all I need to know.
 
loon#r said:
Does that ST citizen have similar movement?;)

This is just another Saturday on bladeforums. No offense taken anywhere from anyone. I don’t have a 31 yet, so you’re right about that and those other points. Believe me, I have plenty of gripes about my most beloved brands and makers, CRK included.

IMO that was significant mvmt shown in PTMAN2000’s video and others have voiced having the same with the 31s they’ve purchased. That is unacceptable and tweaks should be made. And maybe I was wrong, but I believe that what CRK referenced in that email about being normal was the blade mvmt and arm flex that is present in many framelocks. Hopefully that’s the case. That has been my focus of this thread. Yet, there’s seemingly varying severity in the model’s initial release and I’d say that PTMAN’s blade mvmt was significant enough to send back. The audible clicks of the mvmt were disheartening, for sure.

I keep wanting to buy a 31, and still have two reserve ordered, but these days I’m more focused on scoring Regulars, P sebenzas, umfaans, or just customs - especially with the abundance of 31s that will be available for the foreseeable future.
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I’ve had two 31’s in my hands.

The original micarta which the video was made. It moved so much that it came off of the stop pin and clicked. I wasn’t pushing much at all.

The second still moved but it was maybe a third of the first and completely acceptable in my opinion.

I get that some is normal and that’s ok. But again, the variability in what you get is the most worrisome along with the amount of play.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Without going back through 28 pages
Has anyone experienced any lock failure, or problems in use?
Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary pushing going on -not that it isn't everyone's right to complain if they are not happy with the knife. Now all feel the need to see if theirs has it , when they wouldn't even think about it before. Once they find it, it plays on the mind.
Full disclosure-I have spent days working out blade movement(non CRK), that didn't affect use. It can drive you crazy(or crazier).
No matter what CRK considers normal, there are going to be a few beyond normal that need to be repaired. On this I am not sure where the line in the sand is.
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I have been wrong before and I prefer to let the knife makers do what they do best but my opinion is that this lock flex thing has been blown way out of proportion. If this was a real issue, I would think we would have heard about lock failures by now. This whole thing just blows my mind.
 
NCHunter78 said:
I have been wrong before and I prefer to let the knife makers do what they do best but my opinion is that this lock flex thing has been blown way out of proportion. If this was a real issue, I would think we would have heard about lock failures by now. This whole thing just blows my mind.
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it blows my mind that anyone actually finds any amount of blade play/lock rock/“flexing”lol acceptable in a 500$ knife.
 
rxavage said:
it blows my mind that anyone actually finds any amount of blade play/lock rock/“flexing”lol acceptable in a 500$ knife.
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95% of +$500 folding knives are Ti Framelocks. 100% of those knives will exhibit lockbar flex when applying pressure to the spine of the blade. They all do it. Every last one, no exceptions. They wouldn’t function as framelocks otherwise.

The only variable in this discussion is the amount of pressure required to create lockbar flex. What is an acceptable amount of pressure is unknown to me.
 
rxavage said:
it blows my mind that anyone actually finds any amount of blade play/lock rock/“flexing”lol acceptable in a 500$ knife.
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I assumed that response was coming and there would have to be a lot of high priced frame locks thrown out if we went down this road....not just a 31 and not just a Sebenza and not just a CRK.

If this was isolated to the 31, I'd be a lot more concerned. It's not. Anyone that says any different just isn't truly testing it out on their other knives. I actually read through this whole thread today and decided to test out all of my 31s, a few of my 21s, a Zaan, an inkosi, and some non CRK framelocks. Every single one had some degree of this "flex" that I would have never noticed until now.

I also, like an idiot, applied way more force to my 31 than I can really ever imagine using in a normal use situation. I can report back that my lock did not slip. No failures. No loss of limbs. I will say though, that for a person prone to paranoia, my micarta 31 did flex a tad more than my regular 31, so maybe everyone should blame the new inlay style instead :eek:.....but then again, my plain 21 flexed more than my classic micarta so maybe we need a new theory.

If we start getting reports of the 31s having lock failures, then I'll be the first to say I am wrong but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
 
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kidcongo said:
95% of +$500 folding knives are Ti Framelocks. 100% of those knives will exhibit lockbar flex when applying pressure to the spine of the blade. They all do it. Every last one, no exceptions. They wouldn’t function as framelocks otherwise.

The only variable in this discussion is the amount of pressure required to create lockbar flex. What is an acceptable amount of pressure is unknown to me.
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This is what I am observing. Granted, I don't have a huge selection but this is what I am seeing.
 
kidcongo said:
95% of +$500 folding knives are Ti Framelocks. 100% of those knives will exhibit lockbar flex when applying pressure to the spine of the blade. They all do it. Every last one, no exceptions. They wouldn’t function as framelocks otherwise.

The only variable in this discussion is the amount of pressure required to create lockbar flex. What is an acceptable amount of pressure is unknown to me.
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Absolutely not. 100% do not flex. Stop making excuses.
 
Kind of summarizing my thoughts on all this so far. I'm nervous to reply, it's still hot in here. No quotes so it's not personal to anyone.

Seems that the 31 flexes more than a lot of other frame locks with less effort. If you apply enough force to the tip of a frame lock, it will start to close and eventually fail shut. So ya, all frame locks will flex. Some people are pushing really hard and say they all flex, some are pushing with less force and seeing very little flex. They all flex with enough pressure, just ask Cold Steel! It's just not all fingers are created equal. I have medium power hands but I could flex the hell out of stuff my wife couldn't budge. Some here are tradesmen with bear paws, others are more office people. Watch axis lock destruction videos, they flex like we are discussing.

AND... This is bothering me. A lock can easily flex and making unsettling popping sounds without failing. We don't need vast reports, or even limited reports, of failure to not like how a lock performs.

No reports of failure on the 31, but that doesn't mean the lock isn't more like wet spaghetti compared to a 21. It just means the 31 doesn't close when you're not ready.
Some have flex in the 31, but some push really hard like some gorilla in the Congo.
Some have little/no flex in the 31, but some seem to be limited in their dactyl strength.

We don't really know what's going on here. I'm almost ashamed to add to the 31 pages. We can't correlate weak pushers from strong pushers and defective/clicky locks from normal in this forum. I honestly think it boils down to the 31 flexing a little more than other knives including CRK's. The locking triangle seems to have changed a little and it looks like it gives the blade more mechanical advantage over the lock. This means less effort is needed on the blade and also links to the greater distance the lock moves vs a 21. You move the jack handle a long distance, it moves the heavy car a little. You are jacking down on the blade and it's "lifting" the lock bar. The 31's design just makes the issue that all frame/liner locks have worse.

It sucks to me. I know of how "it used to be". As time passes and newcomers find CRK, then the 31 be what they fall in love with and the 41 will be the problem. My parents love cars from a certain era when they were young. I like cars from the time I was also that age. I'm sure the 21 ruffled feathers when new. I'm glad that I've acquired enough 21's that I simply don't care about this issue. CRK is not going anywhere, they are busy as hell and will need to dig out of the backlog they now face. My favorite knife company, and warranty, will still be around as I use the sebenza that is right for me.
 
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