Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

[RaginGinger]

I just bought a small 21, I’ve always heard CRK has a phenomenal reputation. I don’t see a scenario where the company would abandon users fo the 21. It’s what has led to their success.

With the company moving forward with the 31 I imagine they will redesign the lock if enough backlash.

 

[Gizler00]

I just bought a small 21, I’ve always heard CRK has a phenomenal reputation. I don’t see a scenario where the company would abandon users fo the 21. It’s what has led to their success.

With the company moving forward with the 31 I imagine they will redesign the lock if enough backlash.

I don’t think that they are abandoning users. That’s not what I was getting at. But someone correct me if I heard/read wrong, but I thought they were cleaning out 21 stock. And once blades and parts are gone, they are gone. No longer making them.

 

[Tyd450]

I don’t think that they are abandoning users. That’s not what I was getting at. But someone correct me if I heard/read wrong, but I thought they were cleaning out 21 stock. And once blades and parts are gone, they are gone. No longer making them.

I heard that they are no longer letting you just buy an extra blade for the 21 but they are keeping plenty around for future warranty issues.

I say you should use your 21. It's just a knife and it will last you years and years. Once you finally use it up you can probably buy the newest Sebenza 41 with S55VN steel.

 

[Gizler00]

I heard that they are no longer letting you just buy an extra blade for the 21 but they are keeping plenty around for future warranty issues.

I say you should use your 21. It's just a knife and it will last you years and years. Once you finally use it up you can probably buy the newest Sebenza 41 with S55VN steel.

Thanks for the info. I was just all wound up with this. I will still definitely use it. Just very surprised by their responses to people on the flex issue and lock clicking.

 

[kidcongo]

Just some perspective here folks. How many "complainers" are in this thread vs. how many 31's that have been sold? A forum like this tends to amplify issues beyond their actual seriousness.

Lets not go to panic stations over one or two people with issues. This same sort of scenario unfolds every time CRK launches a new model. I'm not saying the few people here with issues are imagining things, but i also highly doubt CRK is issuing multiple knives with side-to-side blade play and lock rock.

The most likely scenario is they are issuing frame locks, with varying degrees lock flex if you put pressure on the spine, which all CRKs I own already have.

Lets give CRK the benefit of the doubt before we all go "chicken little" over a few complaints.

 

[bart1]

Possibly I am mis-understanding , as I do not have a 31, but I do have Um's, Inkosi's and 25's that seem solid and proper. Is it possible that the 31's have a wear in, settle in period? That CRK hopes the "noise" will die down once people break the 31's in?

 

[kidcongo]

Possibly I am mis-understanding , as I do not have a 31, but I do have Um's, Inkosi's and 25's that seem solid and proper. Is it possible that the 31's have a wear in, settle in period? That CRK hopes the "noise" will die down once people break the 31's in?

The knives you have will exhibit this same phenomenon, if you push down on their spine. At least all my dozen or so CRKs do. Especially the Umnumzaan and Sebenza 25. I suppose the question is whether the 31 moves more easily.

 

[bart1]

So we should stop pushing on spines! I know it's a real problem for some, I hope there is a peaceful resolution soon... Maybe a vaccine?

 

[cbr1000]

Possibly I am mis-understanding , as I do not have a 31, but I do have Um's, Inkosi's and 25's that seem solid and proper. Is it possible that the 31's have a wear in, settle in period? That CRK hopes the "noise" will die down once people break the 31's in?

fyi - There's a post in this thread referencing Tim Reeve's response. It's somewhere in the first half, something along the lines of tweaking the 31. This was a response he posted on Instagram.

 

[kidcongo]

So we should stop pushing on spines! I know it's a real problem for some, I hope there is a peaceful resolution soon... Maybe a vaccine?

That would be my suggestion.

Unfortunately, that's not as exciting a story or headline as "CRK is putting out bunk knives and doesn't care about it's customers".

I think we'll see a bit more of that until people get used to the new knife, and a couple possible warranty issues are resolved.

 

[rileybassman1]

So couple interesting items of note:

First, to some above, some of us (not all, hence the ongoing discussion as we are looking for common denominators) are having lock "rocking"... not table-top spine flexing... but 20 dollar walmart gerber clicking type of lock rock as demonstrated here:
https://imgur.com/lZhlPS8

The annoying part - to me - was that this exact video was sent to them and they stated that this was "totally normal"... that is why some of us are still frustrated... and several of us have gotten different answers... from "that's normal" to "that's a feature" to "it's a known issue and we are working on it"... edit to add: with everything going on in the world, I understand that communication etc is tough right now... I just hope to see/hear a consistent response at some point I guess? Either a "deal with it" or "we will look at it" type of thing.

Ok, on to some interesting stuff

I got a "matching" 21 inlay in the mail today and played around for a bit.

First off, the 31's presentation scale will work on a 21... here's proof

Up and down went away. There was some slight side to side - however, I accept that this changes the design the washers were made for... I didn't mix and match any washers or any other hardware at this point... I probably will soon and test some different combos.

I believe that a 21 stop bar will work on the 31 by the looks... I took a bunch of measurements (cheap digital calipers so take it for what it's worth lol).

The blade bushings from the 21 to 31 are identical.

The stop bar bushing and the stop bar from the 21 to 31 seem to be nearly, if not identical - some measurements were exactly the same, some were at most 1/1000 difference, but I attribute that to my own inconsistencies with my micrometer.

So, I think the most interesting find was that I don't think the holes on the blades (at least my copies) are exactly the same... using my expanding caliper side of the micrometer, taking a few measurements they seemed to be the same... however, when I put the bushings (either one) in the 21's blade hole, they are noticeably tighter then when in the 31's blade hole (again both bushings). This is further confirmed by the half open play test (yes, I understand that this can/is "normal" I'm not arguing that point, only reporting findings) the 31 at half open you can feel the slight movement of the bushing... almost a loose click... the 21 at half open - 100% solid - zero movement... so I think it's beyond my tech's ability to detect a circle's inconsistencies... but i'm wondering if that has some bearing... (pun intended lol).

I will play/test more combos in the future, but for now, they are both assembled as built. One item of note - this was probably the "best" 31 assembly this time... what I did was tighten the pivot to where it's super stiff, requires 2 hands to open... I then tightened all other screws... I then loosened the pivot ever so slightly (all pivot adjustments are without lockbar tension... as another stated, the 31 seems pretty touchy to adjustments with the lockbar placing pressure).

The result is 0 side to side play.... but there is still vertical play/lock rock... Maaaayybe ever so slightly better... but still very much noticeable (by hand, not table).

What's all this mean??? I have no clue lol... just reporting findings. Knives are my hobby and this forum has been an "escape" to some of the nastiness in the world lately... I have enjoyed "problem solving" with you all and reporting findings... it's like the colab work I do at time at work lol. I have no desire to fight or have drama with anyone... this is my "fun" place and if it causes more stress I'll limit the time here I just know several others are on this same ride and I like to report any new additions.

I'm glad most 31s seem to be fine... some aren't... mine's tolerable I think but time will tell... it's beautiful... I know that much

If anyone has any specific questions on the 21/31 stuff lemme know... I'll probably leave them alone a few days and just try to "cut stuff" lol but the curious tinkerer in me will definitely delve in again...

Couple beauty shots - I do love how the micarta on the 31 is wearing in

 

[hoimin]

Thanks, rileybassman! It did not even occur to me that the blade's pivot cutout could be the part that was out of spec but that makes a lot of sense (hence a little more rock in some locks)!

Do you notice any 'wiggle' tracks on your 31's blade where the detent ball travels? If there was too much space between the pivot bushing and the blade cutout, I'd expect to see different tracks based on where the blade was tightened down at each re-assembly. The difference might not be visible though.

 

[rileybassman1]

Thanks, rileybassman! It did not even occur to me that the blade's pivot cutout could be the part that was out of spec but that makes a lot of sense (hence a little more rock in some locks)!

Do you notice any 'wiggle' tracks on your 31's blade where the detent ball travels? If there was too much space between the pivot bushing and the blade cutout, I'd expect to see different tracks based on where the blade was tightened down at each re-assembly. The difference might not be visible though.

Good questions... I did not remember seeing anything and I cleaned/greased that path... so if it is there it is probably very slight... I honestly don't think it would be visible.

 

[rileybassman1]

Just wanted to add as well for the fence sitter - I really do like the 31's action... and having the 21 and 31 "twins" in hand, I do prefer the opening, closing and detent of the 31 over the 21 actually... granted the 21 will break in more, but the 31 has a great detent and is very smooth... FWIW if they had equal lock up situations I would gravitate to the 31.

 

[Gizler00]

I agree 100% on the lockup. I have not owned a 31 yet but have had 2 inkosi’s and the smoothness of opening is far superior to the 21. I do believe that the ceramic ball is an improvement over the 21.

I was in no way trying to start or cause drama with my earlier posts. I guess I just had like a sticker shock moment as I was reading through the posts and saw where crk said that the clicking and rocking was normal. There is no doubt in my mind that they will correct these issues and make it right.


Hope this gets all sorted out for you guys.

 

[kidcongo]

Would it be blasphemy if I said the knife on the left was the better looking? There’s something about that split inlay and even the locating hole that pleases my eyes. I can see why the locating hole was kept for years after it’s function likely became redundant. It adds a certain balance.

The 21 was a design masterpiece, but not for obvious reasons. It had a subtle beauty.

Still love the looks of the 31, but......if I had to choose....

 

[brownshoe]

I don’t think that they are abandoning users. That’s not what I was getting at. But someone correct me if I heard/read wrong, but I thought they were cleaning out 21 stock. And once blades and parts are gone, they are gone. No longer making them.

That's now true of all CRK knives, and will be true of the 31. That policy came with the new management.

 

[kidcongo]

That's now true of all CRK knives, and will be true of the 31. That policy came with the new management.

That’s not entirely true. You could not get your Regular re-bladed, unless under warranty, when Chris was at the helm.

Same as it’s always been really. No change.

 

[V-1]

The knives you have will exhibit this same phenomenon, if you push down on their spine. At least all my dozen or so CRKs do. Especially the Umnumzaan and Sebenza 25. I suppose the question is whether the 31 moves more easily.

I have to respectfully disagree. I own an Umnumzaan, a small PJ Inkosi, a large PJ 21 and a small inlay 21. None of them have any movement up and down when you press on the spine (let alone a clicking sound as it rocks). None have side to side movement either. All four feel like fixed blades when the blade is deployed. One of the things I love about them.
By far, the most disturbing thing I've heard is CRK saying the "lock rock" that makes a clicking sound like in the video is acceptable.
That blows my mind. It sounds like there is some internal confusion at CRK right now, which is to be expected while a new product rolls out during a pandemic. Hopefully Tim and crew are looking into the issue. I'll purchase a micarta inlay 31 now as soon as they acknowledge there is an issue. I have faith that they will resolve the issue, there is a lot of great manufacturing knowledge @ CRK. But to fix an issue you have to acknowledge it first.
Like you, I'm a huge CRK fan too. I hope they get it sorted out.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Just some perspective here folks. How many "complainers" are in this thread vs. how many 31's that have been sold? A forum like this tends to amplify issues beyond their actual seriousness.

Lets not go to panic stations over one or two people with issues. This same sort of scenario unfolds every time CRK launches a new model. I'm not saying the few people here with issues are imagining things, but i also highly doubt CRK is issuing multiple knives with side-to-side blade play and lock rock.

The most likely scenario is they are issuing frame locks, with varying degrees lock flex if you put pressure on the spine, which all CRKs I own already have.

Lets give CRK the benefit of the doubt before we all go "chicken little" over a few complaints.

Devil’s advocate here...lol...how many 31’s bought so far went straight to peoples safes? Also, have you noticed that 1-3 BNIB 31’s go for sale in the exchange almost every day since this thread? I wonder why?

There is an issue...no doubt about it. So far even my dealer friend was told by CRK that the lock rock is normal. So after having a preorder for almost a year, to having a 31 with side/side play and rock which is on its way back...im figuring it will be almost 2 years of having my funds tied up to either find out its normal, or CRK messed up. Time will tell. But for over $800 Can, I will end up buying 21’s if the 31’s issues dont get fixed. Everytime I buy a 31 I dont want it to be a lottery of whether I get a major lockrock one or a solidish one.