Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Good grief, Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery do I really need to explain that if a respected Forum member declines to answer a question it is rude, and demanding, to publicly ask him the same question a second time, and then a third time in an attempt to shame him into answering?

So now you start saying negative things about the Reeve family?! Is this why you are reacting so strongly to the 31? To me, all of that is completely irrelevant and poor taste to even discuss in a public forum. The ownership of the company is what it is. We should only be talking about the knives.

I have reacted to your barrage of posts, because the moderators have abandoned this thread. I can see that you are passionate about the knives, and I respect your opinion. I just think that you should also respect the opinions of other people and give them a little breathing room. It might surprise you to know that I actually prefer the 21 and wish they had left it alone. In fact, I have recently bought a couple 21's to stash away for the future. I just do not believe the 31 is as bad as you make it seem, based upon my actual experience with one.

Again, I do respect your opinion and knowledge. You obviously care a lot about CRK knives. Sorry about this dust up. I know your intentions were good.

I was referring to post 906 353 353 . Sorry that I was short tempered with you also.
 
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Sharp & Fiery said:
Thanks Kidcongo...:D
I hope that when you do snag that Insingo 31 it is all you hoped for. :D
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Here is my promise to you, as I don’t like to be at odds with my BFFs (Blade Forums Friends). If the economy still exists when the Insingo 31 comes out, and I pick one up, I will provide my honest thoughts on it.

If it sucks, in my perception, as bad as it does in yours, I will give the knife “both barrells”, with a scathing review the likes of which may get me kicked off this site.

That I promise.....I will not hold back. Cheers
 
kidcongo said:
I think CRK is wise to stay out of this social media sh*tshow. Like look at me. I note that all of my CRK framelocks exhibit this flex, to varying degrees, which they do, and now rather than being a critic of the company, I’m apparently it’s most loyal defender (to some).

My point from the start is CRK “Bank vault lockup” has always been somewhere between a fallacy and just clever marketing. CRK Knife models we were all perfectly happy with now reveal this flex to us. Maybe the 31 is worse in this regard, maybe it’s better as it’s less likely to actually slip? Personally, I don’t really care.

At a glance, this thread is a couple guys complaining about their knives, rather than selling them, a few people like me who recognize that my existing CRKs all have some degree of “lock rock” when spine whacking, and a buncha people wondering why Bladeforums is the new Facebook.

I don’t own a 31, but look forward to picking one up when they release the Insingo version. I don’t really need any more spear point Sebenzas, but would like a second Large Insingo version with the new inlays.
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Kidcongo...I do agree with you, like I have stated before...all Sebenzas/Inkosis/25’s/Zaans do have lock flex with enough pressure...(table test).
What I disagree with is when you state that they all have “this flex”. Because in my opinion, owning 2 31’s, the “flex” is not the same.
My reason for asking if you had one was not to say “well, what do you know?”, but to point out that, for me, there is a difference in flex.
I would actually be happy to ship you my 31 to check out...you are in Canada as well, so no biggie.
Im here for the discussion...being a knife and CRK enthusiast, it is interesting for me.
Hope you can also respect my opinions.
 
kidcongo said:
I think CRK is wise to stay out of this social media sh*tshow. Like look at me. I note that all of my CRK framelocks exhibit this flex, to varying degrees, which they do, and now rather than being a critic of the company, I’m apparently it’s most loyal defender (to some).

My point from the start is CRK “Bank vault lockup” has always been somewhere between a fallacy and just clever marketing. CRK Knife models we were all perfectly happy with now reveal this flex to us. Maybe the 31 is worse in this regard, maybe it’s better as it’s less likely to actually slip? Personally, I don’t really care.

At a glance, this thread is a couple guys complaining about their knives, rather than selling them, a few people like me who recognize that my existing CRKs all have some degree of “lock rock” when spine whacking, and a buncha people wondering why Bladeforums is the new Facebook.

I don’t own a 31, but look forward to picking one up when they release the Insingo version. I don’t really need any more spear point Sebenzas, but would like a second Large Insingo version with the new inlays.
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I too don't own the 31 so I am just going from what I read- It sounds like the 31 can have more flex than the other knives. One of the things I would have liked to hear from CRK is how much is too much. CRK has never made all perfect knives, so I assume some of the 31's have faults also. S&F's may be one.
While I feel no flex on my Sebenzas , I am sure it can be achieved with enough force. Ti does have some give, especially when thinned with cut outs. I give no lock 100% trust. Being an old slip joint guy I am fairly careful where my fingers are concerned.
I understand why CRK is staying away-they figure it will blow over & likely will, but don't think it is the best thing to do. If I were them I wouldn't get into a slug fest here, but I think they can answer some of the concerns to a greater extent than they have. They might have been able to take the wind out of this early with a few comments/expainations and a little data. The second PR release was better than the 1st , but still left ?'s.
It is what it is
I wouldn't be upset if I hadn't held them in such high regard.
 
I don’t think that anyone on here would argue that some play is “normal” in a frame lock especially one made from Ti.

There certainly wasn’t enough on previous models to have anyone notice for many years! I agree with others that the table test isn’t a judge of real world use or lock strength. It shouldn’t be utilized to determine wether a knife is usable at all.

however, like many have said on here and more so lately. Flex with just the use of your hand and flex to the point where you get a clicking noise as it comes off of the stop pin isn’t acceptable in the least. Especially for a knife that costs $600 and has the reputation of CRK.

Maybe this is just quality control and people are correct that you could just return it, but you should t have to! There needs to be a higher level involved there for these imho.

it also bothers me as a consumer that there seems to be no concern on CRK’s part to address this as a company. More like bury your head in the sand....
 
So I’ve been watching this thread for a while, and I do not own a 31 yet. I will get one eventually though. I think what needs to happen here which is totally my opinion, but if you don’t like it or think it’s unacceptable then vote with your money and be done with CRK. They have stated that it’s totally normal and ok, and that the knife is perfectly safe. So I really don’t think they are going to say anything else or do anything about it. All it’s going to come down to is either don’t buy one, or accept it as it is. If you think pity on CRK for their stance, then so be it that is your rightful opinion. As for me, I can’t wait to get a Large 31 Boomerang someday in the future!
 
Leslie Tomville said:
... 353 353 , how can you say that the 31 is screwed up if you do not have one? I agree with Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery on this point; opinions should be based on first hand knowledge. And, by the way, he is the one calling people who do not agree with him sheep.
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Don't need to buy an expensive knife to know it's screwed up if multiple people say the lockup is not solid.


Sharp & Fiery said:
When did i “demand?” I’ve asked 3 times.

Also, you are correct, I am not CRK...CRK isnt CRK...it is T&ARK. Chris is gone...if we are getting technical here.
Interesting how “they have done well up to this point”, when Chris was at the helm...
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You assume Tim and Ann own CRK, do you know for sure? Divorces where the founder is cut out of the company are usually accompanied by the sale of the firm. The "face" isn't always the owner.
 
kidcongo said:
I’m going to copy and paste it to the Cold Steel forum. Those fellas, and their fans, like a solid lockup!
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353 said:
You don't wanna f... with the T.L.C.(Triad Lock Crew)!! :D
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kidcongo said:
Truth!
If ya can’t beat em.....join ‘em!!
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kidcongo kidcongo 353 353 Well, that is interesting... since my mini recon 1 developed rock lock after a few years of usage when some of my other knives I've used as much/more hasn't. Just some food for thought.

brownshoe said:
Don't need to buy an expensive knife to know it's screwed up if multiple people say the lockup is not solid.
.
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Honestly, with the amount of misinformation that gets posted or maybe they're just overreactions. That somehow becomes a trending topic that pushes false information/narrative to the point where people accept it as fact. It is frankly a regular occurrence within the knife community. You cannot create an informed decision just because "multiple people say" something.
 
Gideons said:
kidcongo kidcongo 353 353 Well, that is interesting... since my mini recon 1 developed rock lock after a few years of usage when some of my other knives I've used as much/more hasn't. Just some food for thought.

Honestly, with the amount of misinformation that gets posted or maybe they're just overreactions. That somehow becomes a trending topic that pushes false information/narrative to the point where people accept it as fact. It is frankly a regular occurrence within the knife community. You cannot create an informed decision just because "multiple people say" something.
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You may have missed my sarcasm. I have no real opinion of Cold Steel. I mostly know them from their spine-whacking YouTube tests, their CRK smearing, and for watching a very fat man cut a dead pig in half with a Chinese War Sword. For all of those things, I thank them for the entertainment.
 
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brownshoe said:
Don't need to buy an expensive knife to know it's screwed up if multiple people say the lockup is not solid.




You assume Tim and Ann own CRK, do you know for sure? Divorces where the founder is cut out of the company are usually accompanied by the sale of the firm. The "face" isn't always the owner.
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I am assuming yes...not the best way to do it. I do however know that Chris isnt there anymore. ;)
 
Leslie Tomville said:
Good grief, Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery do I really need to explain that if a respected Forum member declines to answer a question it is rude, and demanding, to publicly ask him the same question a second time, and then a third time in an attempt to shame him into answering?

So now you start saying negative things about the Reeve family?! Is this why you are reacting so strongly to the 31? To me, all of that is completely irrelevant and poor taste to even discuss in a public forum. The ownership of the company is what it is. We should only be talking about the knives.

I have reacted to your barrage of posts, because the moderators have abandoned this thread. I can see that you are passionate about the knives, and I respect your opinion. I just think that you should also respect the opinions of other people and give them a little breathing room. It might surprise you to know that I actually prefer the 21 and wish they had left it alone. In fact, I have recently bought a couple 21's to stash away for the future. I just do not believe the 31 is as bad as you make it seem, based upon my actual experience with one.

Again, I do respect your opinion and knowledge. You obviously care a lot about CRK knives. Sorry about this dust up. I know your intentions were good.

I was referring to post 906 353 353 . Sorry that I was short tempered with you also.
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There are a couple things in this post I want to address...respectfully.
kidcongo kidcongo is a respected member here, without a paying membership, so therefore I would have liked to PM him my question, but since I can’t...I HAD to ask him publicly. You should know that I have respect for BF members as I have PM’d you questions privately at the beginning of this thread.

I haven’t said anything negative about the Reeve family in this thread...I have stated the truth that Chris is no longer with the company. And one thing that we all know, is that he was OCD and a perfectionist.

Since exactly when is BF all just about talking about knives? Really? There is no talk about how companies run? Who is the owner? What people would like to see differently? Im not sure where this rule is, but if you could send me a link that would be good.

Im not sure why you think the moderators have left this thread? I haven’t attacked anyone, called anyone names, or degraded them in any way. I’m here to discuss and have good conversations. And ask for clarification along the way.

I also don’t understand why you think I hate the 31 so much? I think the knife is fully capable of all cutting chores it is intended to do. In my opinion the 31 has more flex than any other CRK in my (not small) collection. I have handled more than the 2 I own, as my friend has a knife store and I fondle them all as they come in. Do I think the lock will fail? Do I think the lock is weak? Absolutely not. I have never once stated that in any post here.
Do I feel CRK could have done a better job with execution? Or perhaps some more research? Absolutely, yes. I don’t believe I have made the 31 seem terrible...just pointing out the differences in lock flex and why it is possibly happening.

What has offended me the most is that my words have been skewed, and I have been accused of things which I have not done. I’m not sure why you have taken on trying to discredit my opinions so hard.

I have not once told anyone to not buy a 31 in this thread. That is their decision, not mine. I have however discussed the 31, and people can take my opinions as they will and decide what they want to do themselves.

Why would I sell my 31’s? And why would you tell me to do so? If I was that upset, they would have been sold already. I am currently using the large Micarta at work, because I said I would, and would come back with my findings. So far, yes, fully capable knife, and I haven't said otherwise.

I havent sent my 31 back, because, and I have posted this before...all 31’s I have handled have had easier hand manipulation to induce lockflex. Mr Tim Reeve has stated that this is normal...I would have to pay $55 CAN to ship to them for them to check out...they have already said it is normal, so I will pay another $80 USD to have it returned to me. Sounds like a waste of money to me.

All I’m asking is that you don’t assume what my intentions are. Take my posts for what they say, and actually respect my opinions. Not asking you to agree with them at all, I wouldnt have it any other way. But trying to discredit my views by assuming what I mean, and belittling me on BF is offensive.

It would be awesome to have more 31 owners chime in...if the masses say its fine...then the CRK club has spoken. So far that hasnt happened here.
There was a post that was very well written here in defence of the lockflex. Got me thinking. I can and have changed my mind before in this thread, with great information. :)

I do wish you the best...
Respectfully,
Sharp & Fiery
 
I have written you a private message, and I will not engage in this fruitless debate anymore Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery . It is simply not productive. The posts in this thread speak for themselves. And could you, for once, just not respond to this post?
 
This thread made me cancel my order! I have other CRK's that I bought while waiting for the 31.
I ordered last August thinking that if I did not then they may be hard to come by.
I was contacted this week to ask if they can go ahead with production.
Seeing that many dealers are now stocking the PJ's I had on order, cheaper than directly from CRK, along with all of the current doubt there really is no hurry to own a 31.
I'll wait to see how this all plays out and maybe pick one up on the secondary market next year.
Sharp and Fiery, Leslie etc. I have enjoyed the interchange!
 
I didn't bother reading all previous 47 pages of this thread, but if there is lock rock when put under static pressure, and if the lock is slipping, has anybody done a spine wack test to see if sudden extreme pressure will cause actual lock failure? - Because there is a difference between lock flex and lock slippage - lock slippage being a genuine safety issue
 
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