Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Since i got my small 31 for about a Week now, i can honestly say that my Copy would need me to stomp on that Blade to make the Lockbar flex. It's basic Physics that a Lockbar can flex if you put enough Pressure with a little Force from the Side, and that is exactly what pressing on the Spine does. It isnt a perfect straight pressure on the Lockbar, its a little from the Side and thats where the Ceramic Ball comes into Play.
 
Vince000 said:
I didn't bother reading all previous 47 pages of this thread, but if there is lock rock when put under static pressure, and if the lock is slipping, has anybody done a spine wack test to see if sudden extreme pressure will cause actual lock failure? - Because there is a difference between lock flex and lock slippage - lock slippage being a genuine safety issue
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You need to read all previous 47 pages of this thread for the answer :)

Per Leroi Price in Knife Mechanisms Volume Two, p. 112: in a liner lock, which is expected not to have any wiggle, even a little play get's a lot of notice. It's sometimes called lock rock. And it means something is not fitting the way it should."

The Sebenza's frame lock is close to a liner lock, but not really since the interface is a ball. Tim wants you to believe the ball interface is better than the old Chris Reeve frame lock and the lock rock/flex/slippage in the "ball lock" is OK. I can believe a ball lock's flex doesn't mean the lock will fail, but it's hard to see how it's better for me than the lock on my 2011 Sebenza.

As Leroi says on the overall subject of lock rock, lock flex, lock slip on p. 113, "This is turning into psychobabble and I have had enough. If it comes up I'll probablly call it blade wiggle since all these terms are begging for meaning but are pretty much interchangeable."
 
Leslie Tomville said:
I don’t know if you are a sheep or what you are, but you seem to be way too mentally invested in this so called controversy. You can only speak to what you are experiencing with your 31’s, and we have heard it loud and clear.

The rest of us have to go by what we personally experience with our knives. My 31 is solid, and I recommend that anyone who has an interest in one give it a try themselves rather than rely on the opinions expressed in this thread. If you consider the large number of 31’s that have been sold, it seems that the vast majority of people are happy with their knives. Almost all of the complaints I have read have been here, in this vortex of a thread. Why not just return your two 31’s or sell them if they make you so frustrated? I would have returned mine in a heart beat if I could make it flex and click with normal hand torque.

This is just a product. Some will like it, and some will not. There are many other options. Don’t let it bug you so much.

CRK should end their supported Forum. This thread is harmful, not only to them, but to us as well.
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^ This! Key word: "normal."

kidcongo said:
I think CRK is wise to stay out of this social media sh*tshow. Like look at me. I note that all of my CRK framelocks exhibit this flex, to varying degrees, which they do, and now rather than being a critic of the company

My point from the start is CRK “Bank vault lockup” has always been somewhere between a fallacy and just clever marketing. CRK Knife models we were all perfectly happy with now reveal this flex to us. Maybe the 31 is worse in this regard, maybe it’s better as it’s less likely to actually slip? Personally, I don’t really care.

At a glance, this thread is a couple guys complaining about their knives, rather than selling them, a few people like me who recognize that my existing CRKs all have some degree of “lock rock” when spine whacking, and a buncha people wondering why Bladeforums is the new Facebook.
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^ +1

Peter Hartwig said:
I too don't own the 31 so I am just going from what I read- It sounds like the 31 can have more flex than the other knives.

While I feel no flex on my Sebenzas , I am sure it can be achieved with enough force.
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I have a proposition I'd like to make.

I just listed a 31 in the CRK sales sub-forum. As I stated in my sales thread, in reference to (in kidcongo's word's) "this social media sh*tshow", I feel some of the people on this forum, are nothing but a bunch of self absorbed narcissists, who always seem to be looking to create & be involved in, drama, rather than enjoying this hobby. < Just my $.02.

If one of you "torque/flexing" guys, would be willing to ship your Large 31, to say Peter H (provided he's willing ???), or possibly another "unbiased" volunteer here, I'd be willing to ship my Large 31 as well. We could let this independent, unbiased 3rd party, compare these (2) 31's. I mention Peter H, because he's one of the few, esteemed, tenured BF member's here, I trust completely, without any reservations.

I'm willing to pay shipping costs for my 31, both ways; are there any of you 31 naysayer's, willing to do the same?

I have to admit, that this thread, has truly piqued my curiosity...but in the end, it's still just a bunch of anonymous guys babbling with their fingers, on the internet.

Send me a PM, if there are any taker's.
 
Vince000 said:
I didn't bother reading all previous 47 pages of this thread, but if there is lock rock when put under static pressure, and if the lock is slipping, has anybody done a spine wack test to see if sudden extreme pressure will cause actual lock failure? - Because there is a difference between lock flex and lock slippage - lock slippage being a genuine safety issue
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As absurd as it sounds, I’d loooooovvvve to see the Cold Steel guys do a Sebenza 21 vs Sebenza 31 test with their spine-whacking jig set-up. That would be so funny if they found the 31 lockup was more secure. Fella’s brains would be spinning inside their skulls trying to resolve this new data point.

If I was a rich man, I would do this test myself as I am very curious of what the result would be.
 
Mistman68 said:
I think most of us are done with this.........
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^ How convenient!

You mean after 48 pages of serious PR damage that CRK has incurred, thanks to a couple/few member's here? How much would you conservatively calculate this has cost CRK, in future 31 sales?

After reading through some of this (IMO), BS, I was beginning to wonder, that perhaps I was the one, not torquing enough pressure on my 31's spine? :rolleyes:
 
KELAMA said:
If one of you "torque/flexing" guys, would be willing to ship your Large 31, to say Peter H (provided he's willing ???), or possibly another "unbiased" volunteer here, I'd be willing to ship my Large 31 as well. We could let this independent, unbiased 3rd party, compare these (2) 31's. I mention Peter H, because he's one of the few, esteemed, tenured BF member's here, I trust completely, without any reservations.

I'm willing to pay shipping costs for my 31, both ways; are there any of you 31 naysayer's, willing to do the same?

I have to admit, that this thread, has truly piqued my curiosity...but in the end, it's still just a bunch of anonymous guys babbling with their fingers, on the internet.

Send me a PM, if there are any taker's.
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I'd love for you to send it to him, I'm sure P Peter Hartwig would accept the offer! But why wait till someone else does it as well? Just send it allready!

Meanwhile I'll be looking for the "eating popcorn" emoji..
 
PiterM said:
Ok, sooo... finally got my own production S31 (the numbered one is a safe queen, of course) so I qualify to contribute to this tread.

Do I experience that phenomenon in my Large 31? Yes I so! Does it bother me? Not at all actually. When the knife is locked and I put considerable closing force on a blade I can feel slight springy action in the lock in the vertical axis. But the lock is not slipping to the side, not trying to disengage. It springs a tiny bit to the point, where it stiffens and the locking action gets to the max.

I’ve used knives with ‚stiff’ (non-springy) action and also knives with some springy vertical action in the lock (that includes all backlocks too, which Blade HQ prooved to be super strong lock type btw). To me (to me!) such a lock action is just fine. At least I know that it won’t slip off the tang easily as that minimal springy action could somewhat ‚damper’ an accidental whack on a hard surface (branch or something) and prevent lock slippage.

I’ve been using Inkosin for last year a lot, and I’ve been using it hard. There’s the same springy effect (just requires a bit more force). No lock issue of any kind so far. Also... who puts so much pressure on a blade in closing direction? This kind of minimal springy action can actually make the opening & closing smoother as there’s no excessive power on the lock bar untill there’s a need for that (existance of closing force) and only then it loads fully the lock. I’ll surely give it a chance. To me (and my own fingers!) S31 lock seems to do the job just fine. Time will tell and I’ll keep you notified. Stay safe!

And remember, that was just my own $0.02 so ymmv.
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For those that haven't read all the pages I think this is a great post worth repeating. I have followed PiterM since joining and before through the archives and he is a true user and has a good knife knowledge overall..
Still some may not like the feel of the new mechanism and a few may be faulty.
and there will be those like me that hate things they like being changed :) now where's my flip phone?
 
I just heard about this 31 issue today.

as a Strider SNG owner (multiple), I am no stranger to blade wiggle or lock rock.

I have a large tanked 21 and a large WC inkosi. I also had an umnumzaan (and plan to get it back soon).

I spent a lot of money on knives before I bought my first CRK last year. After feeling how solid they are and how I never felt the slightest amount of blade play in any of them, I was sold. Mine feel like a fixed blade.

I read the first 5 pages of this and now the last page.
I would love to try a 31 in the future. I just hope it feels as good as my other CRKs.
 
bbk357 said:
I spent a lot of money on knives before I bought my first CRK last year. After feeling how solid they are and how I never felt the slightest amount of blade play in any of them, I was sold. Mine feel like a fixed blade.
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Yeah, that is one of the features I love too, I remember handing it over to friends and family members(trying to defend the money spent) for them to feel for play. And I could see the surprice in their faces as they were trying as hard as they could to create ANY play and failed. They looked surpriced back at me like "It really feels like a fixed blade!"

I actually gained some respect back for spending 350$ on a pocket knife from non knife people...

bbk357 said:
I would love to try a 31 in the future. I just hope it feels as good as my other CRKs.
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Please feel free to spin the wheel!
 
So, got a little better view on this subject since i own my small Sebenza 31 since around 2 weeks now. Used it mainly for very light tasks and never applied much force onto the knife. Also never flicked the knife open nor abused it in any other way. When i first got it, nothing wiggled and it had no bladeplay at all.

But, after just those 2 weeks, the blade wiggles up and down with ever so slightly of a push or pull up and down. It's just the lockbar/ceramicball that flexes or moves a little bit on the frame. Yes, it's basic physics that a ball will have some play around it. That's totally okay, but, not on a 400+ knife.
Im not afraid of the lock failing at all, but that play with the slightest amount of pressure drives me nuts.

To summ it up, within only two weeks of use, i got nothing but a pretty expensive paperweight that is gorgeous to look at, but doesn't leave me smiling when using it.
 
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Sir_flip_a_lot said:
So, got a little better View on this Subject since i own my small Sebenza 31 since around 2 Weeks now. Used it mainly for very light Tasks and never applied much Force onto the Knife. Also never flicked the Knife open nor abused it in any other Way. When i first got it, nothing wiggled and it had no Bladeplay at all.

But, after just those 2 Weeks, the Blade wiggles up and down with ever so slightly of a push or pull up and down. It's just the Lockbar/Ceramicball that flexes or moves a little bit on the Frame. Yes, it's basic Physics that a Ball will have some Play around it. That's totally okay, but, not on a 400+ Knife.
Im not afraif of the Lock failing at all, but that play with the slightest amount of Pressure drives me Nuts.

To summ it up, within only two Weeks of use, i got nothing but a pretty expensive Paperweight that is gorgeous to look at, but doesn't leave me smiling when using it.
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Yeah I get it, I'm a little sceptical on the new 31 as well... I'll never make a purchase at this point reading all the reports of play at this time. Paying CRK prices and all that,

But What The Hell Is Up With All The Capital Letters In Your Post Really?

Sorry For Beeing A Gramatical Snob...
 
I know I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to knives. I've carried various folders every day for the past 35 years.

I recently got into collecting, so I joined this forum to learn more. I decided I wanted a CRK, and I was set on a 31. However, after reading this thread, I decided I'd wait until CRK got the kinks worked out before I'd buy one. Since then, I've picked up a small 21 gold leaf and a black micarta large Inkosi, both of which I've been really impressed with. What has really concerned me about the 31 is some people experience the "lock rock" and some don't. IMO, every single 31 should be the same if they're QC'd correctly. I'm just not buying that this movement is normal as Tim has said.

Having said that, I'd just like to point out something that Chris wrote himself back in 2010 on this very forum:
"There should be no blade play; there should be no lock movement. If there is, something is out of spec and the knife should be returned to us for inspection. The causes are probably a result of incorrect assembly or modification of the lock. There is the possibility that left our shop that way – we are not infallible – but we know these instances are few and far between and we will take care of the situation."

Here's a link to that thread:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/some-words-from-chris.730951/
 
Wow! Thanks for sharing.


ruddyduck said:
I know I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to knives. I've carried various folders every day for the past 35 years.

I recently got into collecting, so I joined this forum to learn more. I decided I wanted a CRK, and I was set on a 31. However, after reading this thread, I decided I'd wait until CRK got the kinks worked out before I'd buy one. Since then, I've picked up a small 21 gold leaf and a black micarta large Inkosi, both of which I've been really impressed with. What has really concerned me about the 31 is some people experience the "lock rock" and some don't. IMO, every single 31 should be the same if they're QC'd correctly. I'm just not buying that this movement is normal as Tim has said.

Having said that, I'd just like to point out something that Chris wrote himself back in 2010 on this very forum:
"There should be no blade play; there should be no lock movement. If there is, something is out of spec and the knife should be returned to us for inspection. The causes are probably a result of incorrect assembly or modification of the lock. There is the possibility that left our shop that way – we are not infallible – but we know these instances are few and far between and we will take care of the situation."

Here's a link to that thread:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/some-words-from-chris.730951/
Click to expand...
 
Most have the rock. All of them. Not just the 31s. Lets stop the nitpicking. Ive acquired 7 crks since i first posted. All have. Not a problem w performance. Its not just the 31. Im not getting it. All still badass
 
mag1 mag1

I went back through some of your old posts and see you have an admirable assortment of Larges (including an awesome *drool* Diamond Plate).

Still no meaningful difference between your Lg 31 and the others?

<<Not stirring the pot. Just curious>>
 
I still believe there is a difference between lockflex...and a spongey lockup.
I’m just done arguing.

Edit: Also, clearing this up...when I said “sheep” i meant people who argue that the lock is fine without actually holding or owning a 31. Someone who blindly follows what the PR states.
 
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