Sebenza - I just couldn't do it...

[hardheart]

dkb's point is valid in that if he as the buyer says the price is not warranted, then he does not purchase. If there is no sale, then the price is not justified. Just because something costs a lot to make does not mean people have to want to pay a lot to get it. Many companies have found this out the hard way as their features did not represent good value and they went under. CRK is fortunate to have gotten things right with their customer base.

 

[GronK]

Victorinox, Buck, Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade, and dozens of others would be out of business if their products didn't get the job done.

CRK, Strider, and other high end production companies would be out of business if there weren't people who appreciate the standards they represent, either in overall quality, fit and finish, pride of ownership or "bad-assedness".

 

[ShooterMcgavin]

I have always lusted after "finely crafted" knives, and the Sebenza is a great example. I think the finish on the Sebenza is outstanding and I admire them every time I hold one. However, in the scope of things I need/want to buy, it didn't justify the price at the time. It was very tempting at those prices, but I was also questioning whether or not the brand-recognition was playing in to my desire to own one. That is something I avoid - I don't buy knives to impress anyone but myself, even though I love to show them off
I am not convinced that Titanium is the "ultimate" handle material, that S30V is the ultimate blade material, or that the RIL is the ultimate lock design. I don't think the ergonomics are the ultimate. They are all "great!" and execution is amazing, that is true, IMHO I don't think the Sebenza fits into my edc system, certainly not the large. I usually want a knife that is either tougher and more expendable (carrying a Cold Steel medium Voyager today), or 'pretty' and slicier (Caly 3 ZDP). If I want the ultimate lock, it is AXIS.
However, if I found a used, small Insingo, for about $250, all of the above may change

 

[JPD1998]

I work with a guy who is big on minimalist camping, he's carried a small Sebenza since they first became available on the market. He's not a knife enthusiast.

He owns it because it's a simple design and won't fail when being used in harsh conditions . He's not shy about using his gear and his Seb is well used. He uses it for a few years at a time and returns it to CRK for refurbishing.

It was about 10 years ago when I first saw his Sebenza, long before joining this forum and even knowing what a Sebenza was. But I knew it was a high quality knife without him saying a word.

 

[hardheart]

CRK, Strider, and other high end production companies would be out of business if there weren't people who appreciate the standards they represent, either in overall quality, fit and finish, pride of ownership or "bad-assedness".

And of course the same brands I mentioned could be substituted into your statement because $200 still isn't cheap and the knives still are well made. There are a lot of levels of price, quality, and bad-assness. I'm just saying that there isn't some minimum that has to be met to get into the club. Somebody waiting on a CPM-M4 mini-grip or Cruwear Military isn't necessarily less educated, skilled, or enthusiastic about knives as the guy waiting on a micarta inlay Seb or a nightmare grind SnG. A Buck 110 will do just about anyting any of those others will do, just needing more frequent sharpening or a sheath instead of clip. When it comes to cutting, a knife needs a blade and not many of the other features.

 

[Sulaco]

What? You don't like Mr. Forehead? It took me years to find him.

OK. I'm getting a little tired of him too. ll see what I can do . . .

No! I love it!

As for the Sebenza, to each is own. I like having choices and for me, the choice is a $100 Benchmade AXIS-Lock every time.

 

[never too sharp]

In my opinion, the quality of a Sebenza can not be matched for less than the price of a Sebenza. The next closest on the production/mid tech front I think would be Mcusta or Benchmade, but they are not as rugged as the Sebenza. I can tear my sebenza down, clean and polish all the interior parts and reassemble a knife that works better and smoother than any other knife I own, including knives with bearing systems(0561,Ripple).

The price of a Sebenza is not all that high when you are talking about a top-quality knife or tool.

 

[Ken44]

bld--will you change your avatar pic?--I cringe each time I see your posts :disturbed:

This gave me a chuckle, because it does the same to me I can no longer read his post because of his dang avatar




OP, nothing wrong at all with not wanting a Sebenza. Plenty of decent knives out there in your price range.
I like knives in many prices ranges.
Its my favorite folder, but not all can appreciate how great it is, and not all need to be spending this much money on a knife.

 

[kelson67]

cop one.

 

[evilgreg]

What? You don't like Mr. Forehead? It took me years to find him.

OK. I'm getting a little tired of him too. ll see what I can do . . .

No, don't! I've grown used to Mr. Forehead, don't waste your branding efforts now . . .

 

[Shotgun]

The price of a Sebenza is not all that high when you are talking about a top-quality knife or tool.

Maybe, if you take practicality out of the equation. A 100,000 dollar Ferarri is worth it for the level of craftsmanship but that doesn't make it the best choice to go to the grocery store.

 

[evilgreg]

In my opinion, the quality of a Sebenza can not be matched for less than the price of a Sebenza. The next closest on the production/mid tech front I think would be Mcusta or Benchmade, but they are not as rugged as the Sebenza. I can tear my sebenza down, clean and polish all the interior parts and reassemble a knife that works better and smoother than any other knife I own, including knives with bearing systems(0561,Ripple).

The price of a Sebenza is not all that high when you are talking about a top-quality knife or tool.

I know this gets repeated here all the time, to the point that people just believe it to be some truism, but I think the level of difference is much smaller than folks make it out to be. I didn't find the Sebenza to be all that different in fit and finish to the fugly brown Spyderco Southard when I compared them. Both silky smooth? Check. Both lock solid without blade play in any direction? Check. Both show attention to detail where small surfaces are subtly rounded and contoured at a tiny level to make them pleasant to use? Check. IMO, the Sebenza was ever-so-slightly superior in fit and finish terms, and less comfortable to use.

 

[dkb45]

Wrong. Even Sal Glesser, the owner of Spyderco said that if he made his knives to the same tolerances, then his knives would be very expensive.

Every Spyderco I have owned was nigh perfect. Sure a few blades were slightly off, but all factory edges were nice and even, nice and sharp, and none had any blade play. On the flip side, I was able to handle a few brand new $300+ midtechs (Hinderer, CRK, Strider, etc.) and most all had terrible factory edges (I don't just mean uneven, I mean almost dull with no use) and remarkably unsmooth action (the Sebbie was smooth but really tight, likely needed broken in). I would say that it was a rare lemon, but the chances of all of them being lemons together is about the same as being struck by an asteroid getting your mail.

By the way, my criteria I judge a knife for quality on are the factory edge and smoothness out of box. Two things easily fixed, often overlooked, and the hardest to get right. You get those right, and I call the knife good (unless it has blade play, but that is uncommon for anything I have seen, even Mantis knives).

For the record I do resharpen every knife I get and drop some oil in, but that is like a brand new car coming with worn tires and badly smudged windows (when ordered from the factory). Easily fixed, but a vital QC detail.

 

[bld522]

What? You don't like Mr. Forehead? It took me years to find him.

OK. I'm getting a little tired of him too. ll see what I can do . . .

No! I love it!

This gave me a chuckle, because it does the same to me. I can no longer read his post because of his dang avatar.

No, don't! I've grown used to Mr. Forehead, don't waste your branding efforts now . . .

Aggghhh. You guys are killing me. What's a forehead to do?

Somebody waiting on a CPM-M4 mini-grip . . .

. . . would include me. Look, just because I think the Sebenza sets the standard in folders doesn't mean that it's the only folder I own. Far from it. Most of my folders cost less than my Sebenza and some cost more. I like my Sebenza more than some of my other folders and I like others more than my Sebenza. But everything in my collection pivots around my Sebenza. It's my reference folder. And the reason for that is because, to my mind at least, the Sebenza has earned its place as the knife all the others have to stand up to.

 

[Luis G.]

I may get flamed for this but this is the way I see it.

The finishing aspect of the standard Sebenza (Beadblasted, or stone washed) is no different from the next guy.
Their finishing is a bit better when dealing with their polished handles with inlays (not so much polished blades, which look bad with the grindmarks visible).

What you really are paying for is the tolerances. I've watched the CRK videos on youtube, and the Exquisite blade. Not to mention have been in several prototype shops.
If it's the standard sebenza you are paying for tolerances.
If you have their hand polished handles, it's a bit more work but the finishing level isn't that great not enough to see a $100 or $200 spike in price, hence why it's not really adding to the cost to have polished handles.
However the amount of work that goes on in mating the framelock/blade, surface grinding (takes a LONG time), CNC, and the heat treated of individual knives, and fitting. That is indeed worth the $400+ they charge.

To be honest Chris Reeve folding knives are fairly priced for all the work that goes into them. That's why I bought CRK in the past,and the reason I still have one Sebbie. It's the concept behind the knife that interests me.

 

[BladeChick777]

I have two Sebenza's.
The rest of my knives are not Sebenza's and I have 18 total knives.

However, my main EDC is my CRK Large Sebenza 21. I appreciate the simpleness, tight tolerances, beautiful fit and finish, and just overall being an amazing piece of work.
No it doesn't have the latest locking mechanism, or latest super steel, simply because it doesn't need it. Some don't like the ergos but every hand is different. To me, the Sebenza is perfect.

By all means that doesn't mean I don't have love and respect for other knives. My Spyderco Chokwe and Boker Albatros for example are two of my all time favorites and they cost much less. The fit and finish is great, the steel is good, the knives are amazing, especially at their price points. But, they aren't my Sebenza's.

I'm not saying you have to feel the same way, by all means we all have different tastes and that is what's great about there being so many knives. Yes in the end the Sebenza is still exactly what every other knife is... a knife. But for me the Sebenza is the knife.

 

[KDUJ]

If you look at knife solely as a cutting tool you may not like the Sebenza’s. Most members of BF are knife enthusiasts and are looking for the added enjoyment of owning and using something I little bit different than what the big box stores carry. I just purchased a small 21 with diamond plate CGG. It is defiantly a better fit and finish and very comfortable to carry and use. It is a knife that does not look out of place in the business office or out hunting and woods bumming.

There may be some “fan club” hype that has the price were it is, but it is unique in that it has true beauty and yet very capable of hard use. It is also they only folding knife that I know of that is very easy to clean. Most other folders have “skellitizing” and other places for moisture, dirt and various “garbage” to collect making it more work to clean.

IMHO, some times people have a difficult time carrying and using something that cost so much. I believe that it can overpower their true opinion and take away from what should be enjoyment. That much money for a simple tool is hard to justify for many people.

 

[SomeNewGuy]

I finally got to handle one at a knife shop while i was out. Wasnt for me, it was nice, it was well built but i wouldnt pay 400$ for it, felt like it just wasnt unique enough for me. Was just very plain looking and feeling everything was like a 8 out of 10 (to me 8 out of 10 is perfect build a 9 or 10 would be something extra) but nothing was a 9 or 10 that jumped out. Was ultra smooth, locked up nice and tight very tight tolerances, didnt like the thumb stud very much. Id much rather get a strider (i handled a strider smf CRK 21 and a hinderer XM18 wharncliffe.. The hinderer was almost 2k tho lol.. was a nice knife but def not worth 2k.

 

[Harv24]

I'm going to have to side with the group who feel they are overpriced for what they are.. For me, a knife is a tool, I can no more spent $300 on a pocket knife then I can spend $5k+ on a Rolex... I have had good quality sub $100 dollar knifes serve me very well for many years...

Sort of like the Craftsman vs. the Snap on tool debate of years gone by, there both(at the time US made) and both had life time warranties... so Why spend 3 times the cost of Snap on.. and now look at them, both are made over seas...

 

[cncpro11]

At the risk of repeating myself, here's the problem. Whenever anyone wants to compare a folder to the industry-standard, they invariably find themselves confronting the Sebenza. There's really no way around it. They simply won't know how good their folder is until they've got a Sebenza to compare it to. Believe me, I resisted this reality for years until I finally gave in and bought one. Now I get it.

+1.

Ken posted the shop tour vids in the CRK sub forum and that is what sold me on them. I know the amount of skill and focus involved in holding ultra tight tolerances, and that is one of the main reasons I broke down and bought one.