Sebenza Lock; No Longer Vault-Like

I slept on this before posting so I guess I really feel this way but I think this is a poor example of customer service IMO.

Charging him $100 to fix this is just wrong. I agree with G2, the onus is on Reeve and not the ELU in this case unless I am totally missing the boat here.

Lenny is a member of this community in good standing who has been here over 2 years. I doubt he is lying regarding flicking the knife open twice...and if he did, so what? Are you all telling me that a $300 plus knife that is heralded as the toughest folder on the planet can not withstand this "abuse"?

Lenny may have to pay for this but I am afraid that the vault-like warranty of the Sebenza is not longer that vault-like. I have been here over 2 years too, and I love my Sebenza and one of the reasons I got it was the warranty that Mr. Reeve advertised.

I for one think CRK should reconsider charging Lenny for this repair. I know Anne, whom I respect, has not responded to this post yet but I can't see what insite she could provide that would change my mind but I will remain flexible. If I thought Lenny was wrong, I would tell him so, too. I guess this is just disappointing.

Respectfully,


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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
Buck Collectors Club-Lifetime Member
JKM-Chai
KnifeKnutt@aol.com
 
Well put kodiak.I too am eager to hear some sort of response.I hope someone at crk can better explain the problem with the knife in question.as I stated earlier I would also like to know how many sebenza's have been returned for this type of lock failure.
 
I have to agree with Greg (Kodiak PA). I too needed to sleep on it before I posted my opinion.

Charging Lenny for the repair has caused more damage to the Sebenza warranty than the entire knife was ever worth. If I'd seen Lenny's post a month ago, I probably wouldn't have bought my Sebenza. I am very disappointed.

In my business, I routinely make decisions on warranty coverage/customer liability on machine installations costing up to $100k. I know we're just talking about a $325 knife here, but Lenny's post has me VERY concerned.

If it sounds like I'm taking sides with Lenny, I probably am. If he's being entirely truthful, the $100 he's paying is wrong. (BTW, Lenny, I'm not questioning your honesty). In my business, I assume the customer is telling the truth until I see evidence to the contrary.

[This message has been edited by L. O. Little (edited 01-07-2001).]
 
Please say it aint so.
frown.gif
I too, am awaiting a response from Anne or Chris before I pass judgement.
Regards,
Joe
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Chris Reeve – Cutler

Guarantee

This knife is guaranteed for life. It is designed for a specific purpose. Should this knife fail after purchase by original user, due to faulty workmanship or materials, such defects will be made good free of cost. The right is reserved to make good such defects either by repair or replacement.

This guarantee does not cover natural materials, incorrect applications, neglect or abuse. Any modifications that are made to the knife after it has left our workshop will void this guarantee.

This knife will be your most trustworthy companion, helper, defender. Look after it and it will look after you.</font>
Click to expand...

The above is the entire written guarantee provided with the CRK line of folding knives.

Lenny stated that he has
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">had my large Sebenza for almost 3 years… It has been my constant companion in my back pocket…The knife has been perfect since I bought it; until recently.</font>
Click to expand...

I believe that this shows that the knife is free of faulty workmanship or materials, otherwise a problem like this is would have manifested itself much sooner. Lenny reports CRK determined that the lock bar had worn to the point that in order to properly repair the knife they would have to replace the handle slab. I am not surprised at the cost, since that is probably the most difficult piece of the knife to machine and hand fit. I would expect similar to replace a broken or overly worn blade, both meaning an investment in materials and time. It would seem unfair to expect any manufacturer to replace all worn parts, due to simple use or abuse, unless they specify such an unlimited guarantee.

This particular situation seems to be the exception and not the rule. We have seen many cases of the good folks at Chris Reeve Knives going far beyond the written word of their guarantee here on the forums, and I am sure there are countless other examples from beyond the walls of cyberspace. But there are cases where the decision is made that a charge is in order, due to whatever reason. In this case Mr. Reeve took the time to contact his customer directly to explain the situation, and even went so far as to replace another major component gratis. I think it shows his dedication to making sure that his customers are satisfied and that his knives continue to be the best available, with none leaving his workshop at less than 100% working order.

I am a bit disheartened that so many people find these actions suspect. Perhaps the company has set the bar too high by going above and beyond the call in the past. This kind of reaction would certainly give me pause about doing so again.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
I'm with you, James; and could not have phrased it better.
wink.gif


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ralph
 
Well said James, my point was questioning the effects of repeat visits to the shop and possibly having the sandblasting making the lock not as secure as before, only asking if that was taken into consideration. There are always two parts to every story and as we can't actually see the knife I guess you are correct in saying that Chris Reeve would not charge unless he felt it was an obvious abuse or natural wear from opening too much..

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
 
Interesting quandry!

I believe the maker is not responsible for natural wear. If the customer had used the knife so much that he constantly sharpened, and eventually sharpened the blade away, I think we'd all agree that it's now up to the customer to buy a new blade. Furthermore, it's pretty well known that the integral frame gives you a number of advantages, but that one disadvantage is that as the lock naturally wears, and even turning the stop pin doesn't help anymore, replacing the stop pin (which doesn't seem to be an option) or the frame is the only option.

So the question I have is: In two years of use, is it expected that the lock would wear to the point that the user would have to spend another $100 on the frame? It'd be nice to hear from the customer how hard he used it -- no flicking, but was it open several times daily and used hard?

If the answer to the above question is "yes", then it may very well be natural wear. If the answer is "no", then it's CRK's and the customer's judgement on whether it's natural wear, or whether this particular knife seems to have worn unexpectedly rapidly.

Joe
 
As I stated in my original post, maybe I flicked it open 2 times since I bought it new. Both times by mistake. I really do know how to take care of a knife, especially a $325 one. Also, I never abused it. The toughest thing I ever cut was cardboard boxes. Never twisted it while it was in something, never stabbed it into anything, never chopped anything. This knife was not abused, period. I wouldn't lie to this extent for a mere $100. Actually, I wouldn't lie at all about this because I respect Mr Reeve and his people too much.
Yes, I also think that the wear problem is strange. But it did happen.
Finally, I think everyone should stop posting to this thread because I'm sure this was an isolated event in the QC of Mr Reeve's Sebenzas. Nothing more can be said of the event and I'd hate to damage Mr Reeve's reputation if things get too heated here.
Thank you for letting me rant.
Lenny
 
We leave tomorrow at 6.50 am for the Shot Show. The past few days (..weeks!) have been extremely busy in preparation for the show. The first post in this thread was made on Friday afternoon and we got to read it on Monday morning - quite possibly the busiest Monday we will have the entire year.

The discussion on this post has, with some exceptions, been very critical of a decision that Chris made. James Segura, posted the wording of our guarantee and made some very astute observations, in a manner more eloquent that we could put them. Suffice it to say that Chris inspected that knife very closely, he did not make this decision lightly and we are not willing to get into an argument over it.

We will be away in New Orleans until Tuesday, January 16 and no one will monitor the forums during that time.


Anne
 
Lenny,
I will respect your request and not post again on this matter after this post, though to be frank the only side we heard was yours and thus the matter has to drop since there will not be an answer from Chris.

James, I also agree that the Reeve's have helped a lot of folks with their customer service and the favor has been returned to them many times over by the loyal customers you have seen in this thread.

If I sounded harsh it was because I was supporting Lenny and believe him that he didn't abuse his knife....he's a civil service worker for crying out loud, of course his knife hasn't seen hard duty.
wink.gif


The last thing I will say that I think this post was handled responsibly and I do not think there was any unprofessional conduct in this thread. It was a discussion of a subject that has been discussed many times. I don't think anyone acted inappropriately. I wish everyone a Happy New Year and may we continue to appreciate the excellent products that CRK puts out.

I now will shut up.



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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
Buck Collectors Club-Lifetime Member
JKM-Chai
KnifeKnutt@aol.com
 
For the makers of $300 production knives, of which I own 6, that is a piss poor answer... busy or not...

Respectfuly,
Michael

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He who has smelt the smoke is never free again...
 
Not the way I would have phrased it C4, but I do agree. I own a couple of the CRK fixed blades and have been amazed by the quality and workmanship - they are truly my favorites. This response from CRK leaves me wondering what is going on here (never heard anything but glowing praise for CRK) and a little less excited about my recent Sebenza order
frown.gif


David

[This message has been edited by Snoopy (edited 01-09-2001).]
 
Believe it or not and like it or not, a properly structured written product guarantee has some built in discretionary latitude for the manufacturer. It has to be this way to be valid. If it is too binding, there will come a time when the manufacturer either cannot honor the guarantee, will not honor it, or will lose control of it's business. We all know of other companies who have been backed into a corner over an improperly written guarantee. CRK's guarantee is perfectly written. It shows that the company believes in their product without reservation. It also shows their good business sense and professionalism.

CRK must exercise judgement when applying their guarantee. This is an extremely honorable and dedicated company. We should be very grateful for that and not second guess every decision they make. Mr. Reeve personally inspected that knife and felt concerned enough with the customer to place a call, himself. That's good enough for me and that would still be good enough for me if it was MY knife. I'm a Captain on transport category jet aircraft and am not questioned by my crew every time I make a decision they don't agree with. They realize I'm looking at the entire big picture, while they may be looking at only a small piece of the puzzle. Same applies here.

One last point and my most important point. CRKnives has not only produced fantastic products, but has maintained a level of integrity and class which is unmatched in this industry. Period. They have earned our respect and should be treated accordingly. I'm embarassed and feel bad when I read unwarranted, disrespectful comments. Their products are the best in the world, matched only by their demonstrated integrity. Maybe we should all aspire to conduct ourselves at their level.

Peter Bransky
Incline Village, Nevada
 
Lenny:
Maybe in your back pocket was not the best place to carry your knife. My experience with CRK has been excellent and they seem willing to go the extra mile for their customers. I'm no knife expert but I would trust the opinion of Mr. Reeve. It may cost you $100.00 but I have a feeling that when you get your knife back you will be one happy camper and that the $100.00 will be money well spent. Let us know when you get the back and how you feel about it.
 
Very nicely presented, James and Peter. I couldn't have said it better myself.

There are none better in this business than Chris Reeve and Co. They have not earned the reputation they have by cheating, deceiving or mistreating their customers.

As far as Anne's answer is concerned, since the original situation occurred between one individual and CRK, I can certainly see the wisdom in forgoing the opportunity to begin a huge debate with a significant number of unconcerned individuals.

Contrary to some folks opinion, most lifetime guarantees don't necessarily mean free service for life. Things do wear out.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com
("Have a knife day!")
 
I've read through this whole thread with interest. I don't want to disparage CRK. I own 2 Sebs, one, a large, has been used for 3 years now. The bar travels a little more than it did when new, but the knife is still rock solid. What bothers me about the $100 charge is that the knife (according to the original poster) was only 2 years old. Unless he had used it hard enough to deform the stop or pivot (like pounding it through logs to split them), I can't imagine why a $300 knife that claims to be the "strongest folder in the world" would not be simply replaced.

The whole issue comes down (as in the story near the front of this thread) to trust in what the customer tells you, as in "I didn't flick it or pound it through logs." Thanks to forums like this one, it is often both expedient and good sense to trust the customer. The knife can not be worth the potential ill will (at best concern) generated by this sort of debate as compared to the good will generated by something like "hey my knife went bad after two years and CRK replaced it for free."
 
I agree 100% with C4.that is a piss poor responce to a legitamate customer complaint.I wonder how long it will be before my sebenza needs a lock replacement.I received it for christmas and the lock has already moved over some.I better start saving my money for a costly repair on the worlds strongest folder.
 
Lenny, welcome to the REAL world, where nothing lasts forever and where there is no such thing as a free lunch, as much as we would like it.

Frankly, I don't quite understand where the problem is. The knife shows wear after being used a lot over three years and a part needs to be replaced. Why should it be free of charge?

It's like buying a motor bike, driving it for three years and expecting a worn out clutch to be replaced for free. And it seems logically that an expensive bike (which doesn't necessarily last longer) is more expensive to fix than a cheap one.

Look at the repair cost in relationship to the price for the new knife. Your knife seems to be worn out. No point in denying it. So when CRK charges you less than one third of the purchase price to get your knife into a condition which is close to new that's not bad at all. It's like owning a $100 Benchmade and getting it refurbished for $33 (if you could get if for that). That's a good service in my book.

So instead of complaining about the cost to fix your knife you should be thankful that you got the blade replaced for free.
 
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