Sebenza Overrated?

[Ankerson]

What's the RC on the S35V Nyala? That would be a pretty good indicator of what he plans on treating his Sebbies to if he moves to that steel. Personally, I can't help but think he's keeping his heat treats low and soft to save $$ on his grinding/sharpening equipment. I could be completely wrong, but it seems that S30V at 58RC will wear out belts a lot slower than S30V at 62RC, but I'm not a steel expert, so I'm just speculating.

Not sure what it is.

My thing is that S30V at 58 RC is like having AUS-8 edge retention wise, if he is running it that soft he would have been better off using 154CM or sticking with BG-42.

If his S30V was even at 60 RC I would be happy., noway would they get S30V to 62 RC in production blades.

We will see what he does with S35VN and how it performs.

 

[Medic1210]

Then at this point, you are not ready for a highend knife just yet. It's part of the journey.

LOL, so basically when you learn to like the Sebenza, you'll be ready for a high end knife?? That comment almost proves the point Chocula was making early on in this thread...

Snip...

I think the common mistake is assuming that paying a lot for a sebenza and enjoying it is equivalent to appreciating the (excessive) quality.

What has happened is that people who buy a sebenza and like it now feel aristocratic, as if they have superior taste and abilities to discern quality. Other people get this vibe and the sebenza gains fame as a status symbol rather than a good knife. Now when someone buys a sebenza, there is a subtle pressure to like it; if you dont like it, you are unsophisticated and have undeveloped taste in knives. So, many people rave about the Sebenza as proof that they are sophisticated knife enthusiasts, even if they just like how it looks or feels. And the cycle begins again...

I've never been popular for my ideas though.

 

[timberweasel]

LOL, so basically when you learn to like the Sebenza, you'll be ready for a high end knife?? That comment almost proves the point Chocula was making early on in this thread...

I don't think that is what Mystro was implying in his response to my comment. I think he was in support of my decision to hold off shelling out the dough for a Sebenza calibre knife until I'm ready to fully appreciate it. After all, a Porsche is relatively wasted on a beginner driver...

 

[Golddust]

When I look at mine I don't even think that I spent $385 on it I just use it and finally realize what a tool maximized for a purpose feels like.

 

[mystro]

I don't think that is what Mystro was implying in his response to my comment. I think he was in support of my decision to hold off shelling out the dough for a Sebenza calibre knife until I'm ready to fully appreciate it. After all, a Porsche is relatively wasted on a beginner driver...

Exactly.:thumbup: I was the same way with Strider and Sebenza. I was into my Benchmades, and ZT so much I couldnt fathom why anyone would spend that much more money on a Strider or Sebenza. It wasn't till I handled one that it all became clear. Fit and finish, balance, quality craftsmanship, exclusivity, made under one roof, design, etc...

 

[Tony8179]

:yawn: Yawn... After 18 pages of text I do believe all the bases have been covered. Now it appears they've been covered twice.

Here's a bottom line that everyone can understand....

Buy what you like.

 

[J.Mattson]

Over rated is something of a relative term.

In my experience finding a knife with tolerances, build quality and fit and finish matching a Sebenza or other CRK product means paying considerably more then the $300-400 your gonna put down on your Sebenza, that makes it good value for money.

 

[DallasSTB]

:yawn: Yawn... After 18 pages of text I do believe all the bases have been covered. Now it appears they've been covered twice.

Here's a bottom line that everyone can understand....

Buy what you like.

muahaha - you beat me to it by mere minutes, Tony. Move up the knife scale as much or a little as you want. Some folks like Bic pens, some like MontBlanc - so what?

disclosure - I've got several Sebenza's because I am continually blown away by the craftmanship and excellence in the product, as well as hooked on thier amazing customer service. BUT I'm carrying an M4 Military today because it's an awesome knife, and I've got a 940 and 440 at home that also get carried regularly. Kool aid comes in many flavors these days!

 

[Gator97]

LOL, so basically when you learn to like the Sebenza, you'll be ready for a high end knife??

Not really. What you learn in that particular case, is to put craftsmanship and design above the knife's actual performance.

After all, a Porsche is relatively wasted on a beginner driver...

Yeah, because Porsches, most of them at least, have performance which requires skilled driver.
Sebenza on the other hand, has build quality and design that appeals to many, however S30V steel at 58-59HRC is hardly a stellar performer, and CRK themselves justify/promote that decision based on the ease of "field sharpening".
To me that is really dubious, I simply don't see senebza wielding crowd sharpening their 400$ folder on the first rock they find in the field. And if they're that good with rock sharpening, then what's another 2 hrc, unless the rocks are carefully calibrated to handle just sub 59HRC S30V steel.
Imagine if porscha was promoted like that, easy to repair/maintain in the field...

 

[RubiconSS]

All the years and ALL the Forums..... same stuff.
LS1.com - Why do you spend $20,000 on the motor in your Camaro when you can't use it?
Watches - Why buy a $4,000 Omega when it just tells time, so does a Casio.
Audio- Does a $40,000 stereo really sound that much better?
Flashlights- Are Surefires REALLY worth the money?

Now knives.... IF somebody wants the best quality and craftmanship AND can afford it - then buy it. You are an American, do what you want. IF it bugs you that somebody CAN and you Can't - STFU or go get a better job or just - Jump.
I have never been able to figure out what the debate is all about. AS far as "High End" Knives go - for those of you who feel the need to debate and constipate or the price - TRY and build one! As a matter of fact, try and build ANYTHING of true quality and uniqueness. You probably can't which is one of the reasons why you beetch and moan about the products of those who CAN.
That about sums it up. Out.

 

[kawr]

LOL, so basically when you learn to like the Sebenza, you'll be ready for a high end knife?? That comment almost proves the point Chocula was making early on in this thread...

Just because you cant appreciate precision engineering and the tightest tolerances in the world doesnt mean its overrated. It may be be overrated for you because you dont prioritise such things and thats fine but dont criticise people who do. I dont understand why people have such a hard time accepting that not everyone have the same preferences. Get over yourself.

 

[Gator97]

Now knives.... IF somebody wants the best quality and craftmanship AND can afford it - then buy it. You are an American, do what you want.

I suspect you're debating different aspect. You can buy whatever you want, nobody is trying to stop you. However, whether something is overrated or not is a matter of an opinion, and everyone has their reasons why certain thin is overrated or worth it.

I have never been able to figure out what the debate is all about.

Just a suggestion If you haven't figured out what the debate is about, may be you should wait a bit, to figure out, before jumping in and telling ppl to STFU...

 

[HJK]

All the years and ALL the Forums..... same stuff.
LS1.com - Why do you spend $20,000 on the motor in your Camaro when you can't use it?
Watches - Why buy a $4,000 Omega when it just tells time, so does a Casio.
Audio- Does a $40,000 stereo really sound that much better?
Flashlights- Are Surefires REALLY worth the money?

Now knives.... IF somebody wants the best quality and craftmanship AND can afford it - then buy it. You are an American, do what you want. IF it bugs you that somebody CAN and you Can't - STFU or go get a better job or just - Jump.
I have never been able to figure out what the debate is all about. AS far as "High End" Knives go - for those of you who feel the need to debate and constipate or the price - TRY and build one! As a matter of fact, try and build ANYTHING of true quality and uniqueness. You probably can't which is one of the reasons why you beetch and moan about the products of those who CAN.
That about sums it up. Out.

Not everyone who frets about spending the money on something great for themselves is a whiner or full of sour grapes. Some of us struggle with the idea of spending money on what, after all, are luxuries or things of higher quality than we might actually need. Consider this a support forum for people who love great knives but feel bad about spending scarce resources on ourselves. Especially if our Significant Others ever find out...
While your attitude ( just buy it already and STFU ) has a True Grit kind of simplicity to it, it isn't entirely fair.

I for one can say with complete confidence that I have never tried to "constipate a price". Whatever that might mean, it sure sounds painful.

 

[RubiconSS]

I believe the original question was "Is the Sebenza over rated"? It is debateable what the intrinsic meanings are in that question. The most obvious was the one I was addressing. Generally when someone asks it is because they are of the opinion that, Yes, it is over rated. Why? Usually because someone is buying it and they (for whatever reason) are not.
That said, I have no idea what the mindset is of the person who asked in this case and will not presume to know - that would be disrespectful. I for one, as I believe I pointed out with sufficient clarity, have grown tired of being engaged by those who question my appreciation for finely crafted items. My tastes are few but what draws my fancy have a tendency to carry hefty price tags. Guns, knives, watches, audio equipment and cars.
"Wants" hardly "needs". As for the Sebenza, is it over rated? First, one has to examine the question. When I hear that question - I hear, "Is it over priced". That is why I mentioned, Try and build one as an answer. Second, Is it over rated OR over priced compared to what? That is a much more difficult question to answer and in it lays the crux. What does the potential purchaser wnat? A knife? then yes, it is over rated. A tool to cut things? then yes again over priced.
IF the person is a collector of nicely made, well engineered, arguably "functional art" - then I submit the Sebenza is not over rated or over priced. It is exactly correctly rated. By who? Those who own them and/or admire them. It is also exactly correctly priced. How$ By the market place and the law of supply and demand.
Is that sufficiently intellectual an answer? I actually preferred the more gritty one but that's just me. ALL of this BTW was offered in the spirit of humor and a genuine shared affinity for the subject matter. No harm intended.

 

[KeithAM]

"What has happened is that people who buy a sebenza and like it now feel aristocratic, as if they have superior taste and abilities to discern quality."

This suggests people who buy Sebenzas are snobs and act that way. I really haven't seen much of that on Bladeforums. Sure, Sebenza owners tout Sebenzas, but so do Spyderco owners, Kershaw owners, etc. It's sort of ironic, but the vast majority of Sebenza-touting I've seen here outside the CRK forum is in the steady stream of threads like this in response to detractors who seem to have their own ax to grind. Otherwise, I haven't seen Sebenza owners go out of their way to "hype" Sebenzas any more than those who prefer other brands.

If you want to know whether a Sebenza is worth it, buy a used one from a reputable forum member. If you don't like it, odds are you'll get every penny back if you sell it.

What I'm suggesting is that those who want to know the answer to the question posed by the OP should form their own opinions based on personal experience rather than charaterizations like the one quoted above.

 

[HJK]

Rubiconss: Great post. Honest, intelligent and comprehensive.


Personally, after thinking it through in as sophisticated an approach as possible ( I constructed a model on my quantum computer using Game Theory algorithms derived from simultaneous superimposed quantum states) I have come up with the ultimate answer:

"Me want Sebenza. Sebenza Awesome"

There you have it from my perspective

 

[RubiconSS]

As far as fretting over $$$, I think all like to get a good deal or realize value for their $$.
Recently, and I am NOT comparing the two knives.
I opted for the A.G. Russell Acies over the Sebenza. For my needs/wants, I liked the Acies better. It didn't hurt that being Retired Military - A.G. Russell graciously offers a 25% discount on their fine products. I wish other vendors were able or supportive enough to do the same but, because A.G. Russell does - I support them with my patronage.

 

[Cynic2701]

Is that sufficiently intellectual an answer?

Are you talking phenomenal or noumenal appearances or perceptions?

Just joking with you.

 

[RubiconSS]

Rubiconss: Great post. Honest, intelligent and comprehensive.


Personally, after thinking it through in as sophisticated an approach as possible ( I constructed a model on my quantum computer using Game Theory algorithms derived from simultaneous superimposed quantum states) I have come up with the ultimate answer:

"Me want Sebenza. Sebenza Awesome"

There you have it from my perspective

Now there is some funny shizzle. Great post!

 

[Ankerson]

Not really. What you learn in that particular case, is to put craftsmanship and design above the knife's actual performance.


Yeah, because Porsches, most of them at least, have performance which requires skilled driver.
Sebenza on the other hand, has build quality and design that appeals to many, however S30V steel at 58-59HRC is hardly a stellar performer, and CRK themselves justify/promote that decision based on the ease of "field sharpening".
To me that is really dubious, I simply don't see senebza wielding crowd sharpening their 400$ folder on the first rock they find in the field. And if they're that good with rock sharpening, then what's another 2 hrc, unless the rocks are carefully calibrated to handle just sub 59HRC S30V steel.
Imagine if porscha was promoted like that, easy to repair/maintain in the field...

The funniest thing for me about the soft S30V (58) is that people praise that steel while bashing AUS-8A in the same sentence when the edge retention is the same.

I get a real big laugh out of that everytime I see it posted, it's very entertaining to say the least.

S30V at 58 RC is nothing like S30V at 60 RC, they are like 2 completely different steels, the difference is that huge.