Sebenza Overrated?

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rubiconss said:
I for one, as I believe I pointed out with sufficient clarity, have grown tired of being engaged by those who question my appreciation for finely crafted items.
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Since you've pointed out what irks you, I'll point out what irks me. It's when folks come into a thread of their own free will, and complain about the topic that was posed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember your name being mentioned anywhere in this thread, so please explain how you were being engaged by those who question your appreciation of finely crafted items?? The title of the thread was pretty clear what the thread was going to be about. If you're tired of threads like this, there's a very simple solution, and that is just skip over it. Nobody made you click the button, or read the thread, so I really don't understand your issue. Your engagement in this issue is entirely of your own doing.
 
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RevDevil said:
I'd be interested in seeing about getting the blades hardened up a little more on my Seb and Umnum. I'd love the knives more if they held the edge better, then they would be a more perfect knife. :thumbup:
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Hey Rev, so are you saying that you could ostensibly have the blade further hardened on a knife that has already been finished?

pete
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah they are, but I can't get past the performance of the soft S30V that's why I am waiting for CRK to change to S35VN before I buy one.
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S30V at 58-59 RC is hardly soft. If you want to complain about that fine, but realize plenty of people do just fine with Buck's 420HC at 55-56 RC. :rolleyes:
 
Josh K said:
S30V at 58-59 RC is hardly soft. If you want to complain about that fine, but realize plenty of people do just fine with Buck's 420HC at 55-56 RC. :rolleyes:
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Yeah and people did just fine with Bronze Swords and knives too back 4000 years ago but that doesn't mean we have to use them today. ;)
 
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Ankerson, have you ever gotten around to testing any of the damascus steels that CRK uses? I'd be interested in knowing how they stand relative to CRK's S30V or BG-42.
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah and people did just fine with Bronze Swords and knives too back 4000 years ago but that doesn't mean we have to use them today. ;)
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I'm saying the hardness of the steel – like everything else CRK does – is not by accident. It has a purpose with sound reasoning and definitive testing. To imply that they leave it "soft" for no reason is a mistake.
 
Wow. I am really surprised at all the dialogue on this. I think a knife is a highly personal thing, much like a bow (my primary passion...). Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. Would I spend $450 on a folding knife??? Probably not. Are they worth it? Yes, i would say they are. Sebenzas have a huge following, as does Chris Reeve in general. I definitely think there is a reason for that. I think it is all in what you are into. I think his knives are beautiful and extremely well crafted. I have handled a few, and they are works of art. My priorities are in a different place or I would own one. I love the axis lock right now so I am collecting as many axis lock knives as I can - in between archery purchases...

I choose not to spend $4-500 on a folding knife right now, but I have no problem spending $8-900 on a bow, $600 on accessories, and another $2-300 on refinishing the bow to get it the way I want. It is just a matter of personal taste.

Is the sebenza overrated? I would say no. People keep buying them, and the used ones for sale seem to only last for an hour or so before they are gone. I think that by now if they are overrated, people would know and the resale on these would not be so high. I realize that nothing I said has anything to do with the technical aspects of these knives. I think if they were overrated and "didn't perform" that the word would be out by know and people would know.
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah and people did just fine with Bronze Swords and knives too back 4000 years ago but that doesn't mean we have to use them today. ;)
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Logical fallacies are pretty cheap discussion tactics.

We're not talking about bronze knives, and the difference between bronze and modern steel is not equivalent to the difference between 420HC and new super steels.

Many people DO get along just fine with 420HC, me included. If you don't, that's fine. Implying that non-super steel users are primitives walking around in the bronze age isn't fine.
 
Josh K said:
S30V at 58-59 RC is hardly soft. If you want to complain about that fine, but realize plenty of people do just fine with Buck's 420HC at 55-56 RC. :rolleyes:
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But Bucks don't cost over $300.

Josh K said:
I'm saying the hardness of the steel – like everything else CRK does – is not by accident. It has a purpose with sound reasoning and definitive testing. To imply that they leave it "soft" for no reason is a mistake.
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Of course there's a purpose. Savings in production cost is a good purpose because as people have said it is tricky to heat treat right and keeping hardness down probably means savings at the heat treat facility and less risk of getting a brittle batch. Ease of field sharpening indeed.

Some will pay for the worksmanship and close tolerances even without exceptional edge retention. And some won't, most likely because they expect better edge retention from a knife at that price point.
 
As an amazing "gadget" the Seb is not overrated. It IS an amazing gadget with super tight tolerances and it's a shrine to production machinist capabilities. As far as a knife, it's way overrated. You wanna cut something? Get a fifty dollar Spydie. And I'm not a troll, so forget that argument. I'm a Sebenza owner. Love my Micarta 21 and woulnd't trade it. I simply wish Spyderco made the blade. If they did, it would be PERFECT. Cheers.
 
Slim to None said:
Logical fallacies are pretty cheap discussion tactics.

We're not talking about bronze knives, and the difference between bronze and modern steel is not equivalent to the difference between 420HC and new super steels.

Many people DO get along just fine with 420HC, me included. If you don't, that's fine. Implying that non-super steel users are primitives walking around in the bronze age isn't fine.
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I think that Jim was just making a 'tongue in cheek' statement there Sean. He knows fully well that Buck has a huge following of their 420HC, me included.
 
Harry Callahan said:
As an amazing "gadget" the Seb is not overrated.
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Yeah, Sebenzas are nice, but "amazing gadget" isn't something that comes to my mind when I think of one. Nothing really "amazing" about them, especially the plane Jane ones. You don't get much more simple than the design. Nothing really complicated about it to justify an 'amazing' classification IMHO. If I were to call a knife an amazing gadget, it would probably be one that does a lot more than just cut stuff. Something like a Victorinox SAK Champ or fully loaded Leatherman. Those I'd be more inclined to call an amazing gadget. Not just a simple knife.
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah they are, but I can't get past the performance of the soft S30V that's why I am waiting for CRK to change to S35VN before I buy one.
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Have you used a Sebenza before?

I vaguely remember some people telling me that simply because the same steel is harder doesn't guarantee edge retention. Still, not sure if you could call S30V at Rc 58-59 "soft". I'd like to think that some makers keep their steels a bit on the soft side for better toughness. Though considering the ergonomics of the knife, perhaps a super hard and wear resistant HT would be better as I can't imagine what kind of hard use you could put that thin blade through.

But I was still under the impression that only the newer PM steels could be consistently heat treated to Rc 60+ like CTS-XHP, Elmax, M390, ZDP-189, and CPM-M4. At least in a production knife:rolleyes:.

Still, I suppose you have to walk into it with the idea that a Sebenza is sort of like a Rolex. It doesn't tell time all that much better than other watches(or your iPhone), it's just cool to have.
 
Sal himself said, if Spyderco was to make a knife with the close tolerances of CR knives it would cost just as much. So, if you want something very well made, seems it will cost you. If you don't want it and can't see paying for it don't. I can get by with cheaper knives, but I like the way my CR's are made myself.
 
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As to what CR, said about the steel used, today:

"My choice to change our folding knife blade steel to S30V was thoroughly thought through, as was the selection of RC hardness 58-59. I was privileged to be involved in the development of S30V with the metallurgists at Crucible Steel – they asked what attributes I wanted in a steel and they delivered. At RC 58-59, the blade will hold a good edge and will be easy enough to sharpen. One of our tests resulted in S30V cutting 14,000 linear inches of e-flute cardboard before notable edge wear against 12,000 for BG42. I have been completely satisfied with the performance of S30V."
 
singularity35 said:
Of course there's a purpose. Savings in production cost is a good purpose because as people have said it is tricky to heat treat right and keeping hardness down probably means savings at the heat treat facility and less risk of getting a brittle batch. Ease of field sharpening indeed.

Some will pay for the worksmanship and close tolerances even without exceptional edge retention. And some won't, most likely because they expect better edge retention from a knife at that price point.
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Right, CRK heat treats the knives to 58-59 RC to save money. That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on this forum.
 
Josh K said:
Right, CRK heat treats the knives to 58-59 RC to save money. That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on this forum.
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Saying S30V at 58-59 isn't any better than AUS8A, is right up there, too.


singularity35 said:
If that is the case, then getting S30V at less than that(58 rc) is in effect getting AUS-8A. Maybe for some people paying over $300 for a a knife with AUS-8A edge retention would be paying too much.
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