Sebenza Overrated?

[Noctis3880]

From the Benchmade website:

MANUFACTURING
The Benchmade manufacturing arsenal contains ultra-modern laser cutters and machining centers dialed in for spot-on tolerances of 0.0005” on command. Our computerized machining centers offer the precision and control usually found only in the aerospace industry.

Given that the blade of my 710-1 cuts into the plastic backspacer, I sincerely doubt the accuracy of that statement.

 

[termiteslayer]

The LifeSharp guarantee isn't really designed for folks like us, who have taken the time to learn how to properly sharpen a knife ourselves. It's for the other 90% or whatever percentage of folks that buy and use BM, but do not know the first thing about sharpening. For those people, the factory edge is more than adequate. Every BM I've bought will shave hair off my arm easily, but it's a toothy edge made with maybe a 600-800grit belt. Yes, it will shave, and work fine for the general layperson, but for folks like myself, and many others who take knives more seriously, the factory edge could be refined. Like I said, of all the years I've owned BM knives, I've never used the lifesharp service, but it's there for the folks that are not skilled at sharpening their own knives.



I cannot speak for your experience, or anybody else, but from my experience, I've yet to receive a BM that did not meet my expectations in the quality department. I prefer the Osborne designed models personally, and every one I've received from BM has exceeded my expectations in quality. They are so smooth it's literally like the blade rolls on bearings. I've owned a Sebenza before, and may very well own one again if they offer the Insingo in Micarta inlay handles, but to me, the Sebenza while smooth, was way too tight, and unlike the BM, you cannot adjust the level of tightness unless you prescribe to the "sand the washer a bit" line of thinking I've heard some Sebbie owners say. Also, the thumb stud started hurting my thumb after the first day of playing with it. I'm not the only one that has talked about the thumb stud either. I've never had a BM thumbstud that hurt my thumb. Heck, even a Sebbie owner modified his Sebenza with BM studs. Photos were posted just last month IIRC. As for the Gold Class, I have never owned or held one, but I don't see them having any tighter tolerances than the Blue Class ones I own. I think the thing that sets them apart is their use of damascus and other higher end embellishments. That and the fact that they're limited production, which that alone jacks prices up. Do you think the Damascus, with exotic inlays, or gemstone Sebenzas have higher tolerances than plane jane ones? No. Their price increase comes from the options done. I think the same goes for Gold Glass BM.

All of my blue class BM's have better fit and finish than my gold class Griptilian. Maybe I got a lemon.
My CR knives are better knives for the long haul. The tolerances are clearly far better than what BM offers.
I was doing fancy-dancy woodwork for a long time. A justifiable job tool was one that could be easily maintained and could be reassembled quickly back to perfect alignments. CR has achieved this.
CR makes work knives to be used and maintained on the job.

Love my BM's... especially the blue class. Nothin' wrong with BM stuff.
My CR knives are worth every penny.

 

[Brian J]

I doubt the accuracy of it too, might be a typo by the Benchmade PR guys. But that's what it says at their website.

 

[LorenzoL]

Given that the blade of my 710-1 cuts into the plastic backspacer, I sincerely doubt the accuracy of that statement.

That's because manufacturing of that infamous backspacer is subcontracted to a 10-year-old boy in the Peshawar region.

 

[dsmegst]

From the Benchmade website:

MANUFACTURING
The Benchmade manufacturing arsenal contains ultra-modern laser cutters and machining centers dialed in for spot-on tolerances of 0.0005” on command. Our computerized machining centers offer the precision and control usually found only in the aerospace industry.

Saying they have a certain piece of equipment does not mean every knife and every part on the knife gets made with that machine. And I hardly doubt they would waste that machine and the trained operator's time on a blue class knife.

I own Benchmades that could never meet that sort of precision. And I own examples that are so well made, I can believe that claim.

Every manufacturer is capable of making great knives. But to consistently produce top tier F&F knife every time is costly. The looser range of tolerances can result in lemons and we hear about those in the forum every day. How many lemons come from CRK?

I don't consider CRKs to be the best knives, but I do believe the claims for the most precisely made knives. That's two different things and precision costs more. What's there to argue about that?

My Para 2 cost half as much, has an exotic steel blade, extremely functional CF handle and a lock that's proven to be one of the strongest around. And the F&F is damn near perfect. I doubt the individual pieces are as precisely machined as on a CRK knife but they average out close to perfect.

I also own several CRKs and I know what they're about, their worth and why they cost what they do. I'm satisfied with paying for them and don't feel cheated in any way. But I know what's the better knife and that's the one I carry.

 

[So-Lo]

This speaks volumes

I carry a sebenza every day, it is built like a tank!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642269&highlight=sebenza

 

[RubiconSS]

I used to drive a tank everyday and it was built like a Sebenza!

 

[Josh K]

From the Benchmade website:

MANUFACTURING
The Benchmade manufacturing arsenal contains ultra-modern laser cutters and machining centers dialed in for spot-on tolerances of 0.0005” on command. Our computerized machining centers offer the precision and control usually found only in the aerospace industry.

While I'm sure that they have laser cutters, and machining centers, I really doubt they have things at 0.0005". If they think they do then I should send them a few of their knives back.

"...precision and control usually found only in the aerospace industry." — Sure

 

[Gator97]

While I'm sure that they have laser cutters, and machining centers, I really doubt they have things at 0.0005". If they think they do then I should send them a few of their knives back.

So send them back. Or better yet, measure them with accurate calipers, post photos and send them back. You can even publicly swear you won't buy another BM again, nobody will hold that against you (with or without photos).

BTW, I don't know where do you get your data about steel, hardness and production costs, but leaving steel soft does save costs for makers, even for beloved CRK, starting with the fixed blades at 55-57RC and folders at 58-59RC.
If anything, take the same "easy to sharpen" argument you mentioned, don't you think it equals "easy to grind"...

 

[tricker]

Given that the blade of my 710-1 cuts into the plastic backspacer, I sincerely doubt the accuracy of that statement.

it says on command, and from similar experiences i doubt they ever command it



I say the sebenza is still underrated

 

[Josh K]

So send them back. Or better yet, measure them with accurate calipers, post photos and send them back. You can even publicly swear you won't buy another BM again, nobody will hold that against you (with or without photos).

BTW, I don't know where do you get your data about steel, hardness and production costs, but leaving steel soft does save costs for makers, even for beloved CRK, starting with the fixed blades at 55-57RC and folders at 58-59RC...

Sold them all and haven't bought in a while. I have no interest in proving their claims one way or another, just know that I have had BM knives with very visible imperfections I have never found on a CRK knife.

Why would you have a fixed blade (often subject to far more abuse) the same hardness as a folder? I don't doubt they save money, but I think saving money is not the reason they chose that hardness for the knives.

 

[Gator97]

Why would you have a fixed blade (often subject to far more abuse) the same hardness as a folder?

Wrong question, and I suspect you know that. I never implied they should be at the same hardness.
Lemme help you The question was why would you have a fixed blade hardened that low, or why would you have a light use folder at 58-59HRC.
Or, why have a chef's knife from S35VN steel at 57HRC... Some of the Wusthofs and Henckels are harder than that.

Like I said, "ease of sharpening" is the same as ease of grinding. And back then, when I still had BG-42 Sebenza and those were in production, I definitely have not seen overwhelming number of complaints from the users about sharpening problems. On BF at least.
And frankly, I am very skeptical, how many of you, with 400$ or 600$ sebenszs are sharpening that "blinged out" knife on the first rock found in the field.
Based on the photos I have seen here, the most devoted/vocal Seb fans in this thread, have not used their knives for anything harder than envelopes anyway.

I don't doubt they save money, but I think saving money is not the reason they chose that hardness for the knives.

Hmm, so you know they save money on it, but for someone to assume they do it to save money is "the most ridiculous thing you have heard on this forum"? As in, money saving is just a side effect

 

[Ankerson]

Wrong question, and I suspect you know that. I never implied they should be at the same hardness.
Lemme help you The question was why would you have a fixed blade hardened that low, or why would you have a light use folder at 58-59HRC.
Or, why have a chef's knife from S35VN steel at 57HRC... Some of the Wusthofs and Henckels are harder than that.

Like I said, "ease of sharpening" is the same as ease of grinding. And back then, when I still had BG-42 Sebenza and those were in production, I definitely have not seen overwhelming number of complaints from the users about sharpening problems. On BF at least.
And frankly, I am very skeptical, how many of you, with 400$ or 600$ sebenszs are sharpening that "blinged out" knife on the first rock they find in the field.
Based on the photos I have seen here, the most devoted/vocal Seb fans in this thread, have not used their knives for anything harder than envelopes anyway.


Hmm, so you know they save money on it, but for someone to assume they do it to save money is "the most ridiculous thing you have heard on this forum"? As in, money saving is just a side effect

I don't think some understand how really involved and complicated the process really is. This thread hasn't even scratched the surface of what and why things are the way they are when talking about steels.

I won't go any deeper into it I can tell you that, but all of the information is out there for those who really want to learn and find out the whys and hows.

Nothing is ever as easy or cut and dry as it seems......

 

[Gator97]

Well, when you have that "it's right because CRK does so" attitude, I doubt there will be much interest in reading those materials.

 

[Ankerson]

Well, when you have that "it's right because CRK does so" attitude, I doubt there will be much interest in reading those materials.

Those manuals could fill up a room just on one part and then that's not all of it.

And it's all very dry reading too.....

 

[Josh K]

Well, when you have that "it's right because CRK does so" attitude, I doubt there will be much interest in reading those materials.

According to Blade show, the fan base of knife collectors, and the length of time in business, I highly doubt they are doing things wrong.

Really no use arguing with someone like you.

 

[Ankerson]

According to Blade show, the fan base of knife collectors, and the length of time in business, I highly doubt they are doing things wrong.

Really no use arguing with someone like you.

There is no right or wrong, it's just not that simple.

Chris Reeve has his reasons for doing things the way he does and I am sure they are good ones.

 

[ec9]

The crks are fantastic knives. And when you pull it from your pocket and hand it to someone they go wow what a nice knife. Are there other knives on the market for 150+ that will cut the same stuff? Sure there are it just depends if you want to spend the extra coin to be in the crk club. I have owned 3 and just sold my last zaan. I made the switch over to fixed blades for carry and I am pretty happy in doing so. My Izula or rc-3 or my busses will handle anything my crks did. so to each there own. If you have waited years to pick one up my guess is going to be that your not going to think there as super cool as some. And this is coming from a knife user I don't collect. If it dosen't get used it get's sold.

 

[Gator97]

According to Blade show, the fan base of knife collectors, and the length of time in business, I highly doubt they are doing things wrong.

Definitely not from the business perspective. Although, that doesn't make S30V at 55 HRC perform any better, just like when a lot more people(compared to CRK fanbase) believed the earth was flat it didn't get any flatter.

My point is, you are happy with whatever they do, and more power to you. Insulting/attacking other members for expression their opinion is not necessary. You can't make everyone happy, neither can CRK.
You like softer kitchen knives, I like them much harder. Doesn't mean I don't understand a thing about knives or their performance.

Really no use arguing with someone like you.

Agreed, I don't understand "faith based" arguments vs. numbers and facts.

 

[So-Lo]

Hmm, so you know they save money on it, but for someone to assume they do it to save money is "the most ridiculous thing you have heard on this forum"? As in, money saving is just a side effect

We are in general so it's not "the most ridiculous thing I'v ever heard on this forum," but it's pretty far up there