Sebenza Overrated?

[cziv]

Jim, I believe they will end up switching over eventually. They already use S35VN in the Nyala (liked a fixed blade version of the Seb). But S35Vn isn't that different from S30V by all accounts. It's just a little tougher is all.

CPM S35VN was tough enough on my Mule Team to bounce off the carpeting and ricochet at an acute angle and cut through my bedroom slipper and my foot inside it. No chips, no rolled eges - like new!

You guys get carried away. I like S30V done by Spyderco, Benchmade & Kershaw. I have D2 by Benchmade - good job. I have Benchmade 154cm which is good. These are all good folding knife steels - yeah even the Sebenza.

Like I'm gonna buy a Sebby and sit there and cut cord side by side with a Benchmade 154cm Grip and see which one peters out faster. I don't think I would!

 

[Ankerson]

Let's hope they decide to up the Rockwell, to where the steel is optimized. Not just a compromise that they decided upon, so that it's easier to sharpen in the field.

I do plan on buying a Large once they switch over, I refuse to buy the S30V vers that's out now.

Yeah I hope they do UP the RC on it too.

If it's left soft I won't buy one.

 

[Josh K]

Highly overrated IMO. Huge waste of money, no point in ever getting one. To believe that he charges $400 on average is obscene. No, no, don't get one. You wouldn't like it anyways. Much to perfect.

 

[Ankerson]

highly overrated imo. Huge waste of money, no point in ever getting one. To believe that he charges $400 on average is obscene. No, no, don't get one. You wouldn't like it anyways. Much to perfect.

That's funny. ROFL

 

[J.Mattson]

When I look at Sebenza’s I see virtually everything that attracted me to knives in the first place. it’s a great “tool” that wants to be used, the craftsmanship is extraordinary, the fit and finish down to the smallest detail is perfect. Even their QC is among the best I can count the number of times I’ve heard of someone getting a (new) CRK knife with a manufacturing problem on one hand and still have fingers left over.

If I wanted to get a knife that does those things better then a Sebenza then I’d probably have to go with a custom costing several times more and even I’ve got no guaranty.

Because of all that the Sebenza simply is a bargain representing good value for money.

 

[KennyB]

By the way your typing skills are impressive!

Heh, thanks, but apparently my ability to keep it brief isn't, and I think I'm coming off as having too strong of an opinion.

I mean, have you ever driven a Ferarri? I doubt it, but I had to ask... Now, even though you haven't driven one, you've probably formed some preliminary opinions on them, and that's basically what the opinions I'm expressing about the Sebenza are tantamount to. I'm not really trying to give an overall statement about the Sebenza, just trying ( and not doing a great job ) to explain why and how I think the Sebenza is over-rated. It has very little to do with the actual knife, and more to do with the way people hold it in such high regard in comparison with other very high value knives, and it seems that they do so without merit.

I mean, I'll concede that everything I've said about the Sebenza's difference in quality is certainly just speculation and there's always the possibility I'll hold one some day and think, "Wow, you were totally wrong," but I still don't think that at that point I would go so far as to say that it's much better than any of the other high value production knives like I see so many other people do.

So I mean, aside from all my unfounded opinions on how severe the difference in quality could really be, what I'm saying is that I personally think the Sebenza is over-rated for those reasons ( the unfounded ones ), but mostly because of the way people seem to paint other terrifcly made knives as if they were inferior to the Sebenza, and never really justifying it with anything but subjective things like, "I've had a lot of very smooth opening knivs, and this is the smoothest." I'm just saying that I've never really seen anyone say, "The Sebenza is so much better because it has x number of x," in a factual manner.

Whether or not I really think having x number of x is worth that much more money is irrelevant and I can see how you wouldn't really put much stock into the opinion of a guy whose never held one ( wouldn't blame you ), but I think that there is a pretty strong likelihood that I am partially right and that most of the people are blowing the difference in quality way out of the water.

Anyway, though, I didn't really want to get so involved in this that I'm writing posts these large and talking about so many things that I don't really have personal experience with--it's dangerous grounds, but I just tend to go on a long ramble sometimes. In any case, the main point I'm trying to push here is not that the Sebenza isn't a good knife, and that there aren't some people that will truly appreciate the craftsmanship more; it's just that I think there's also a lot of people over-rating it, there's a lot of hype about it, and so when someone asks the question, "Is it over-rated?" then the portion of me that sees all this hype can't really ignore the question just because I haven't handled the knife.

 

[Incahiker]

CPM S35VN was tough enough on my Mule Team to bounce off the carpeting and ricochet at an acute angle and cu through my bedroom slipp and my foot inside it. No chips, no rolled eges - like new!

You guys get carried away. I like S30V done by Spyderco, Benchmade & Kershaw. I have D2 by Benchmade - good job. I have Benchmade 154cm which is good. These are all good folding knife steels - yeah even the Sebenza.

Like I'm gonna buy a Sebby and sit there and cut cord side by side with a Benchmade 154cm Grip and see which one peters out faster. I think I would!

If you read the "Idaho Stamp" thread in Reeve's forum then what is said is that the Idaho stamp slabs were suppose to be set aside for all the new S35V blades. Apparently the knives are selling so good they had to use the Idaho Stamp slabs because they ran out of normal ones. So it seems as if the S35V blades should be coming out soon. And those of you that have been holding out can now get that 1000th slice on rope before the edge goes dull rather then S30V's 999th slice, you should be overwhelmed!!!

From what I read on people testing their knives (Nyala S35V and spyderco mules) is that there is no perceptional difference between the two steel. Theoretically S35V is suppose to be tougher. It is not going to be a huge upgrade, that is guaranteed.

Don't forget that next year the price of a large plain sebenza will also be $425 -$440 new, and the S35V will not come out till then. So don't expect to be seeing many cheap ones on the second hand market.

 

[Ankerson]

If you read the "Idaho Stamp" thread in Reeve's forum then what is said is that the Idaho stamp slabs were suppose to be set aside for all the new S35V blades. Apparently the knives are selling so good they had to use the Idaho Stamp slabs because they ran out of normal ones. So it seems as if the S35V blades should be coming out soon. And those of you that have been holding out can now get that 1000th slice on rope before the edge goes dull rather then S30V's 999th slice, you should be overwhelmed!!!

From what I read on people testing their knives (Nyala S35V and spyderco mules) is that there is no perceptional difference between the two steel. Theoretically S35V is suppose to be tougher. It is not going to be a huge upgrade, that is guaranteed.

Don't forget that next year the price of a large plain sebenza will also be $425 -$440 new, and the S35V will not come out till then. So don't expect to be seeing many cheap ones on the second hand market.

A lot depends on how hard they run the S35VN, it could go from a small difference to a large difference. That's taking into count that they Run S30V around 58-59 RC.

 

[Ken44]

I'm won't try to convence anyone, but the Sebenza is the best designed folder ever made. The staright handle is by far the best out there(straight handle is a must for game, and outdoor use), custom or production.

He is the one that helped crucible design S30V, and does it better than any in regards to holding and edge and being very tough at the same time.

 

[benlg]

I've owned several sebenzas over the last five years and I ended up selling all of them. They're great, but I was just too nervous to use them hard. I've found that the best knife for me is priced b/w 100 and 150. If they get too far above that, I won't use them easily.

Im the opposite, because I paid more I find every excuse to use and abuse it (within reason), to see what its capable of. I agree though $100-$150 is the sweet spot.

Nope, not overrated imo. A few months ago I thought $300 for a knife was insane. That is till I realized I was spending that amount sometimes in a week on Spydies and edc stuff. Might as well give the Sebenza a go. Once I got my small 21 out the box it was perfection to me (or as close as it gets). Like already mentioned fit and finish, tolerance.. just overall quality and simple, beautiful design. lol OP, you sound like you are trying to convince yourself and have others convince you not to buy it. Just give it a try I like to compare this to HiFi, another interest I have. Some people cant see/hear a difference between a basic low end model vs. higher end eg. Sony XBR set or B&W speakers so its overrated, overpriced. But you wont know till you've demo/tried it. At least one of the positives of CRK is they hold their value, sell it if you dont like it.

 

[Incahiker]

A lot depends on how hard they run the S35VN, it could go from a small difference to a large difference. That's taking into count that they Run S30V around 58-59 RC.

My question would be why would he run a folding blade with almost the exact same design (sebenza) any harder then his fixed blade (nyala?) I believe that he already settled on his heat treatment for this steel. But, who knows, I am not Mr. Reeve's and he could have something as you say in the works. But... either way it would not prompt me to sell any of my S30V sebenzas to get one made with S35V, I don't believe there is going to be a huge difference. The only blade I am going to go to for Toughness is my Busse infi (prying, killing concrete blocks, etc.. ), other then that most of my knives are going to slice and do nothing but that.


Edit: Like the poster above me.. give it a try. Look at your collection of other knives and add that up... I am sure it is more the a sebenza. Do like I did, purchase a used one, fall in love with it, and then get 3 more in the same week. Then get it in your hands and carry it for a week... if you don't like it then sell it for a prophet. There is nothing wrong with that equation. You get to try a sebenza, carry it, and decide for your self if you like it or not. If not, sell it and make $25 .

 

[Steven65]

Anyway, though, I didn't really want to get so involved in this that I'm writing posts these large and talking about so many things that I don't really have personal experience with--it's dangerous grounds, but I just tend to go on a long ramble sometimes. In any case, the main point I'm trying to push here is not that the Sebenza isn't a good knife, and that there aren't some people that will truly appreciate the craftsmanship more; it's just that I think there's also a lot of people over-rating it, there's a lot of hype about it, and so when someone asks the question, "Is it over-rated?" then the portion of me that sees all this hype can't really ignore the question just because I haven't handled the knife.

Kenny, (I assume that is your name.......I am Steven)
Firstly I apologize if you feel picked on.......it was not my intent.

I am not breaking your balls about your lack of experience with the Sebenza or anything else for that matter.
I just think that if you have something to say and an opinion to offer on Bladeforums about knives, especially a negative one, it should not be second hand.
It should come from your experience and first hand view. It is easy to read forums and threads and generate an opinions based on others. But without having actually held the article yourself your opinion can only be conjecture.

Had you simply said that you did not like it I would never have even replied to your post.
Had you said "Seen one don't like it" .......Also fine.

For although I do like the knife I take no issue with those folks here who feel it is not good value. They are entitled to that opinion as surely as I am entitled to mine.

Anyway I think we have both made our points and I apologize if you were offended or felt singled out.

If you have a chance in the future to handle a Sebeza please post your opinion. I for one would like to hear it.........

Steven

 

[richw]

It is extremely important. :thumbup:

There are steels out now that are better in Toughness, Edge Retention and Stain Resistance.

All at once?

On s35v, according to crucible, it has similar edge retention, and is just designed to be tougher and easier to grind. According to crucible it has the same corrosion resistance.

Having said that s30v according to Crucible has better edge retention than cpm154 and better corrosion resistance.

I can say that my lone wolf s30v do stay quite sharp, which is good, because I am not so great at sharpening.

I can say for me though edge retention doesn't rate as high for me as it does for you.

Rich

 

[Gator97]

And those of you that have been holding out can now get that 1000th slice on rope before the edge goes dull rather then S30V's 999th slice, you should be overwhelmed!!!

Can't comment on S35VN yet, but I have S30V at 61HRC, which performs superbly, w/o any difficulties with sharpening. Given CRK 58-59HRC range that's 2 or even 3 RC points difference and in your rope count numbers the difference would be closer to few hundred cuts for identical edge angles.

Underhardened(for whatever reasons) S35VN steel will not provide much of an improvement, and even if it did improve over another underhardened (S30V) steel, why should I feel happy about that and pay 400$+. It'd is still be below optimum.

No matter which way you put it, Sebenza is a folding knife, light/medium use. It is, or has to be optimized for cutting and edge retention.

And yes, harder steel means thinner edge, i.e. better cutting ability, besides other things.

 

[KennyB]

Anyway I think we have both made our points and I apologize if you were offended or felt singled out.

Oh, no it's not that, it's just as great as my typing skills may be, I often have a bit of trouble articulating myself and just wind up running around in a maze of redundancy and repeition--and that means I wind up writing some pretty unneceessarily large posts. I guess I need an editor. lol So really what has happened is that I was just trying to make a passing observation with the little knowledge I do have with the Sebenza, but because I invested so much into explaining everything I expressed a much stronger opinion than what I really have--afterall I've never even seen a Sebenza and as much as I tried to make it clear I didn't have any real complaints about it, that must have gotten lost in all the negative. The reason it was negative, is just that I'm a little cynical that the quality could really be that much different--but I'm not gonna beat on that dead horse all over again.

In retrospect if I wanted to try to be less of a blow hard, I would just say I have trouble believing that the differences in quality can really be as good as everyone is saying it is.

Wow, all that to boil down to that... It's just so hard to not try to explain every line of my thinking. It's not because I feel singled-out or like I need to, it's just that I get carried away easily. I'd equate it to running one's mouth except I'm typing; though I guess maybe it's the same dynamic. Anyway, that's all beside the point, I certainly don't feel offended or anything, and I hope I haven't come off as vehemently trying to defend myself or something.

I might try to go to some knife shops in Seattle over the holidays, and I still plan to check out a Sebenza to get an actual idea of what it's about, so my mind is definitely far from made up--it's just my fingers can get carried away.

 

[Erasmus]

"Sebenza overrated?"

"No."

 

[Ankerson]

All at once?

On s35v, according to crucible, it has similar edge retention, and is just designed to be tougher and easier to grind. According to crucible it has the same corrosion resistance.

Having said that s30v according to Crucible has better edge retention than cpm154 and better corrosion resistance.

I can say that my lone wolf s30v do stay quite sharp, which is good, because I am not so great at sharpening.

I can say for me though edge retention doesn't rate as high for me as it does for you.

Rich

Yes all at once, how many steels do you want me to list.

Can't comment on S35VN yet, but I have S30V at 61HRC, which performs superbly, w/o any difficulties with sharpening. Given CRK 58-59HRC range that's 2 or even 3 RC points difference and in your rope count numbers the difference would be closer to few hundred cuts for identical edge angles.

Underhardened(for whatever reasons) S35VN steel will not provide much of an improvement, and even if it did improve over another underhardened (S30V) steel, why should I feel happy about that and pay 400$+. It'd is still be below optimum.

No matter which way you put it, Sebenza is a folding knife, light/medium use. It is, or has to be optimized for cutting and edge retention.

And yes, harder steel means thinner edge, i.e. better cutting ability, besides other things.

Exactly, S30V is supposd to be at 61 or 62 RC, not 58 or 59.

Take a Production knife at 58 and compare that to a Custom at 61 or 62 RC and there will be a huge difference in edge retention.

 

[michaelm466]

An Umnum and small seb are on my list, but near the bottom, mostly because of the reputation of quality. However there are about 12 knives in front of it like the Gayle Bradley, ZT 200, Stretch 2, BM 940 and 950, etc. And since I don't get to get regular production knives very often (because of all the darn sprint runs, just got my M4 Millie, and am on the list for s90v and carpenter paramil, M390 TSEK, and HEST/F. On the other hand, if the umnum were S90V or S110V I'd probably be saving for it right now.

 

[kawr]

Can't comment on S35VN yet, but I have S30V at 61HRC, which performs superbly, w/o any difficulties with sharpening. Given CRK 58-59HRC range that's 2 or even 3 RC points difference and in your rope count numbers the difference would be closer to few hundred cuts for identical edge angles.

Underhardened(for whatever reasons) S35VN steel will not provide much of an improvement, and even if it did improve over another underhardened (S30V) steel, why should I feel happy about that and pay 400$+. It'd is still be below optimum.

No matter which way you put it, Sebenza is a folding knife, light/medium use. It is, or has to be optimized for cutting and edge retention.

And yes, harder steel means thinner edge, i.e. better cutting ability, besides other things.

CRK would disagree with you. He runs his S30V at 58-59 rc because he fully believes the Sebenza is a hard use knife and thus needs to sacrifice a little edge retention for more toughness. The edge retention between a 60+ rc and a 58 rc isnt noticeable to me and its not like I find myself having to sharpen the Sebbie more often than my other S30V knives. The extra toughness in the Seb is noticeable to me since I have yet to see it chip ever while I have seen some micro chipping in my other S30V blades. I would rather have a tougher steel than a harder steel for a medium-hard use knife any day of the week and the Sebenza is definitly a hard use knife.

 

[bld522]

I would rather have a tougher steel than a harder steel for a medium-hard use knife any day of the week and the Sebenza is definitly a hard use knife.

Guess we're not going to get off the steel issue, so here's my take.

The aim hardness for S30V according to the steel manufacturer is 58-61 HRC. (Source: http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf.) So a hardness of 58-59 HRC is clearly within the recommended range.

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