Sebenza VS Lochsa.... What are your impressions?

dylan_d · Dec 21, 2003

Jeremy, you say the Sebenza is overpriced? I think not. I dare you to find a better folder than the Sebenza for the same price. And last time I checked, CRK offers SEVERAL options for the Sebenza. You can get an S30V blade or a damascus blade. You can have the blade polished or stonewashed. You can get custom designs on the handle, with color or without. You can get leather inlays, wood inlays, and even gem inlays. There isn't a single other production knife that offers that many options. Some custom makers don't even offer that many options on some of their models. And I haven't seen a lot of options for the Lochsa, but I'm sure Scott would be willing to do some things. Btw, I own a Sebenza and will be getting my Lochsa in February, hopefully

PWork · Dec 21, 2003

Jeremy, a quality knife is a quality knife...period. Custom or production, it either is quality, or it isn't. How many options will a "custom" maker alter at a customer's request? I'm sure it will vary with the maker but at what point will the maker cut it off?
I believe Tom Mayo has said he wouldn't do a TNT with a tip up clip. If I wanted a clip on my knife (which I don't) that would be the way I would want it. Is Scott Cook willing to change the handle shape of a Lochsa because someone wants one a little different? Great if he will, but I don't see it happening.

Scott, if you see this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Some knives have "got it" and some don't. Both the Sebenza and Lochsa certainly seem to have it.

Paul

Jeremy Reynolds · Dec 21, 2003

Great, youi got two choices in a sebenza blade. Damascus or s30v. That definately wins me over.

What if i want stellite? What about ats34, 440c, a2, d2, etc...? What if I want the s30v heat treated to a higher RC, which every use of s30v does except for CRK?

I can get designs cut in? Oh goody. Now I get a still ugly unergonomic handle with designs.

Challange to find a better knife for the price? Very very easy to do so. Mike Obenauf. He has multiple models at or below the sebenza prices, including framelocks. Fit and finish are on par or better. Choices are much much better. Customer service is better. And it's an oppertunity to make a friend with one of the coolest guys I have met.

People miss out on one huge aspect of custom knives. It's as much about the people as the knives. If I hadn't met and became friends with Kit Carson, I really doubt I would own as many of his knives as I do. I've never owned as many production knives from a single company as I do Carsons, because the personal touch isn't there. I've met Scott Cook and he is an awesome guy. I know he would go out of his way to make sure I am happy with MY knife, a knife built for ME, not for some distributor to send out. That is what you get witha custom knife, and that is what makes them worth every penny.

And the people griping about not being able to afford custom knives? BS. If you want one, save up for it. The same people who say hey can't afford custom knives, will buy $1,000 worth of production in a year or two span. Save up and buy 2-3 customs. I've got custom fixed blades that are less expensive then many production models. The only reason people don't buy customs is because they don't really want to.

JR

PWork · Dec 21, 2003

....And if a person chooses not to buy a "custom", that's entirely up to them.
Myself, I buy what I like. If the design is right, and the quality is there, I'll have it sooner or later. I don't care if it's "production" or "custom". To each his (or her) own.

Paul

dylan_d · Dec 21, 2003

What if i want stellite? What about ats34, 440c, a2, d2, etc...?

Do you really want those steels? CRK offers the best materials available at the momment, I never thought I'd hear someone gripe about that

I can get designs cut in? Oh goody. Now I get a still ugly unergonomic handle with designs.

I think the Sebenza looks good. To each his own.

Challange to find a better knife for the price? Very very easy to do so. Mike Obenauf. He has multiple models at or below the sebenza prices, including framelocks. Fit and finish are on par or better. Choices are much much better. Customer service is better. And it's an oppertunity to make a friend with one of the coolest guys I have met.

Mike is a good guy and makes great knife, no doubt. But the Sebenza has tighter tolerances and as good or better fit and finish. And the customer service of CRK is famous for being some of the best in the biz.

People miss out on one huge aspect of custom knives. It's as much about the people as the knives. If I hadn't met and became friends with Kit Carson, I really doubt I would own as many of his knives as I do. I've never owned as many production knives from a single company as I do Carsons, because the personal touch isn't there. I've met Scott Cook and he is an awesome guy. I know he would go out of his way to make sure I am happy with MY knife, a knife built for ME, not for some distributor to send out. That is what you get witha custom knife, and that is what makes them worth every penny.

I agree 100%.

I also agree with Paul. If the knife is well executed and I like it, I will buy it, custom or not.

db · Dec 21, 2003

quote:
Challange to find a better knife for the price? Very very easy to do so. Mike Obenauf. He has multiple models at or below the sebenza prices, including
framelocks. Fit and finish are on par or better. Choices are much much better. Customer service is better. And it's an oppertunity to make a friend with
one of the coolest guys I have met.

Mike is a good guy and makes great knife, no doubt. But the Sebenza has tighter tolerances and as good or better fit and finish. And the customer service
of CRK is famous for being some of the best in the biz.

You have any prof? Best C. S. in the biz? What Biz? How much would it cost if you damage the lock bar or that slab and it needed to be replaced? How much for just a tunup? best is pretty subjective don't ya think? Read how much JR has payed for some customer service a few posts up.

Jeremy Reynolds · Dec 21, 2003

I agree. Buy what you want. If you like production designs, go for it. I started with production knives and still have several. I have a CRK one piece fixed blade that I absolutely love and wouldn't trade it for very many custom fixed blades in the same price range. I'm not blasting people for buying production by anymeans. Production definately serves a huge purpose. I'm saying using the "i can't afford a custom" exucse to justify buying only production is silly. The only reason people don't buy custom is becayuse they don't want to. And there is really nothing at all wrong with that. Just be honest about it and don't make excuses.

As far as s30v being superior to the others i listed? In who's opinion? Yours? I've gotten excellent results from many different steels, including s30v. However, my favorite material for blades is stellite. I tend to sweat an incredible amount and prefer the incredible corrosion resistance I get with stellite. I agree that s30v is a great steel, even though I believe CRK needs to raise their RC hardness a couple of points. But, some people like and prefer other steels for many different reasons. That is what is so awesome about customs, you get what YOU want, not a knife based on what a production company believes is the best combonation of materials. For me, a totally non-corrosive knife of titanium and stellite is an unbeatable combo. At the same time, I always tell others that the stellite really has no advantage to quailty stainless steels other then that one aspect. If they don't have problems with sweat, I reccomened skipping the added cost of stellite. I actually really like 440c in a folder and think it is highly underrated. With a quality heat treat, it will preform pretty well with s30v. Like I said, it comes down to personal choices. Even if I choose s30v in my custom, I at least get that choice.

JR

SarcoBlaster · Dec 21, 2003

Originally posted by Jeremy Reynolds
The same people who say hey can't afford custom knives, will buy $1,000 worth of production in a year or two span.

Really?

I can't afford a custom knife and I've only bought 2 production knives within the last year, which cost me way under $1,000. I guess it must be nice for to have extra money to throw around. Just don't take it for granted.

*Edited to add* Before you ask, yes, I do want to own a custom.

Jeremy Reynolds · Dec 21, 2003

Sarco, and that is perfectly fine. Like I said, buy what you want AND like. Howver, if you had saved that cash, you still could have afforded a custom of some kind. Whether it be a dick atkinson folder or a Wayne Hendrix fixed blade. If you found other production knives in that price range you liked better and wanted more, that is awesome. Like I said, I started off with production knives too. I still have a few and there are a few on the market now I wouldn't mind adding to my collection.

As far as the money to buy customs? My first custom I ordered was from saving up birthday/christmas cash for 3 years to order it. There was a 2 year wait, but I made sure to save up all the cash before i placed the order to begin with. I then sold off production knives, chunks of baseball card collections from when i was a kid, etc... to pay for more customs. I worked extra jobs and saved up all the money I could. I would spend hours a night typing college papers for people without computers/printers (or simply the time to type) for $10-25 a paper depending on the length. I did what ever I had to do to buy those customs. Like you said, it would be nice to have that cash just laying around to buy that stuff on a whim. I sure wish I had it that way. I have to work and save every penny to buy what I want, and that is what I choose to do. If you would rather spend it on a production, more power to you. Buy what you like and want. But I stand by my idea, that anyone can own a custom.

JR

dylan_d · Dec 21, 2003

You have any prof? Best C. S. in the biz?

I didn't say they were THE best, but SOME of THE best.

What Biz?

The pornography biz

I'm saying using the "i can't afford a custom" exucse to justify buying only production is silly. The only reason people don't buy custom is becayuse they don't want to. And there is really nothing at all wrong with that. Just be honest about it and don't make excuses.

I agree here too. But I don't see where anyone used that excuse in this thread

. Maybe I read over it

About S30V:

I was reading an article in Blade I think talking about S30V. CRK said that they chose S30V because it offers the best compromises between toughness (where stellite is not so good), edge holding, and corrosion resistance.

PWork · Dec 21, 2003

I agree with Jeremy that anyone can own a "custom". There are some truly great makers with very reasonable prices. I've got a few laying around myself. I've spent way too much money in the past on inferior blades. Now I save till I have enough to get what I really want, no matter how long it takes. I just made two purchases that equal the cost of a Lochsa. These were both knives I've been wanting for some time. Now I have to start saving all over again. Hopefully when Scott gets the small Lochsa out, I'll have enough to get one. If not, I'll save till I do. It will make a fine companion for my small Sebenzas.

Paul

Jeremy Reynolds · Dec 22, 2003

"Keep in mind that not everybody is foturnate enough to be able to own a custom knife, so production is all they can afford."

That was the quote in the 2nd post from the end on page 1. THe arguement always seems to pop up on custom vs production threads. I hear it all the time "i can't afford a custom." I can't accept that excuse. I reccomended a custom to a friend of mine the other day. He said "I really like the designs and choices, but I don't think I'm quite ready to make that commitment. I'd be too worried about using it hard. I'll eventually get there." To me, that is a much more reaslistic and admirable reason. If you aren't ready to take that step, cool. I was once there as well. I thought i'd never buy a custom because I could never find a $400 custom 4X better then a $100 production knife. Then I got my first custom folder from Kit Carson and it's been all down hill from there. Like I said, you can afford whatever you save up to buy.

JR

dylan_d · Dec 22, 2003

Paul, you ought to go ahead and e-mail Scott and ask to be put on the list for a small Lochsa. His backlog is already over a year and by the time he has the small out it will be even longer. That should give you plenty of time to save for it

dylan_d · Dec 22, 2003

Originally posted by Jeremy Reynolds
"Keep in mind that not everybody is foturnate enough to be able to own a custom knife, so production is all they can afford."

That was the quote in the 2nd post from the end on page 1. THe arguement always seems to pop up on custom vs production threads. I hear it all the time "i can't afford a custom." I can't accept that excuse. I reccomended a custom to a friend of mine the other day. He said "I really like the designs and choices, but I don't think I'm quite ready to make that commitment. I'd be too worried about using it hard. I'll eventually get there." To me, that is a much more reaslistic and admirable reason. If you aren't ready to take that step, cool. I was once there as well. I thought i'd never buy a custom because I could never find a $400 custom 4X better then a $100 production knife. Then I got my first custom folder from Kit Carson and it's been all down hill from there. Like I said, you can afford whatever you save up to buy.

JR

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I agree with you 100%

I went from a $12 Case XX, to a $50 Kershaw, to a $70 Benchmade, to a $305 Sebenza, and now on to a $460 Lochsa with a few others in between

PWork · Dec 22, 2003

I've already contacted Scott about the small Lochsa.

Paul

db · Dec 22, 2003

Originally posted by dylan_d
I didn't say they were THE best, but SOME of THE best.

The pornography biz

I agree here too. But I don't see where anyone used that excuse in this thread . Maybe I read over it

About S30V:

I was reading an article in Blade I think talking about S30V. CRK said that they chose S30V because it offers the best compromises between toughness (where stellite is not so good), edge holding, and corrosion resistance.

So Dylan, what's the problem? You can only quote and answer 1 question at a time with a smartass answer for the other? Atleast I quoted the hole section I was replying to. Tipical I guess I'm done trying to reason with you. FYI hear is my quote above.
You have any prof? Best C. S. in the biz? What Biz? How much would it cost if you damage the lock bar or that slab and it needed to be replaced? How much
for just a tunup? best is pretty subjective don't ya think? Read how much JR has payed for some customer service a few posts up.

dylan_d · Dec 22, 2003

Originally posted by db
So Dylan, what's the problem? You can only quote and answer 1 question at a time with a smartass answer for the other? Atleast I quoted the hole section I was replying to. Tipical I guess I'm done trying to reason with you. FYI hear is my quote above.
You have any prof? Best C. S. in the biz? What Biz? How much would it cost if you damage the lock bar or that slab and it needed to be replaced? How much
for just a tunup? best is pretty subjective don't ya think? Read how much JR has payed for some customer service a few posts up.

Nope, I can quote the whole thing, as you can see, hopefully. But lets not let this turn into a quoting contest, someone could loose an eye

. Anyways, why the hell does it matter whether I quote the whole phrase or not?

You see, I wasn't replying to the entire post, just certain questions and I was trying to show that.

Manji · Dec 22, 2003

each person should just buy what they like, maybe some people really can't afford a custom knife. Maybe some people just can't manage to save up for one. It happens all the time, the minute you get some extra cash you want to spring for a new knife. A lot of times this extra cash is only like 50 bucks or so. Therefore, you end up buying like ten 50 dollar knives in a year which could have amounted to one 500 custom. Some people are willing/able to hold out for that one big purchase a year and some people can't. And there are others who like have 10 lower quality knives rather then one custom.

lifter4Him · Dec 22, 2003

These arguments get silly. Buy what you like and can afford. Like Jeremy once I got my first Carson all was lost.
The sebenza is a great knife. It's very simple and plain but that seems to be what sebenzanistas like about it. IMO for a production knife that they make so many of, it is expensive. But if I wanted one, the price wouldnt stop me.
A big part of why I buy custom knives is because of the maker. I dont care if someone produces the finest knife ever made for $50, if I dont like them I'm not buying the knife. Four of my users are a Carson, a Terzuola, an Emerson, and a Jones brothers. I have become friends with each of them and everytime I use whichever one I'm carrying it makes me think of my friend who made it for me. This may not matter to some, but I like it. This is not to say Chris Reeve isnt a great guy(met him, dont know him) but he's not making them anymore. I have met Mike Obenauf and spent a few hours with him last summer at Kit's house and his knives are outstanding. Maybe the sebenza has tighter tolerances numerically but his knives could not be more solid.
As far as refinishing my opinion is that at these prices you should get one free refinishing a year(or 2 years). Most custom makers refinish for free as long as the privelege is not abused.

Off topic: Last week at the Chesapeake Knife show in Md. there was a production knife dealer selling sebenzas at rediculously low prices. $235 for a small and $255 for a large as well as some inlaid ones for about $350. And he had alot of them. I dont remember his name but he was the only production dealer set up at the show.

alan aragon · Dec 22, 2003

so far i'm leaning towards a lochsa instead of a sebbie; it think it's worth the extra benjamin & a half or so..