Sebenza VS Lochsa.... What are your impressions?

I have a Sebenza and I like it.

The Lochsa, though, is in a class by itself. Once you've used a Lochsa for a while, the integral handle is a feature that feels missing from any other folder you use.
 
Sebenza VS Lochsa
Sebenza VS Benchmade Pinnacle
Sebenza VS Spyderco ATR
Sebenza VS Strider SnG
Sebenza VS customs...

( Why not Sebenza VS Ferrari F50 or Sebenza VS Terminator 3 :rolleyes: )

Every high quality knives are compared to the Sebenza... Don't you think it is an indication ? Don't you think we have found the better knife compromise ? Not simply because the Sebenza is maybe the better knife, but due to the fact it always focus the attention ? After many years of production, we always try to know if another knife can be better...

Apart from that, I think the Lochsa is a very nice knife. The "one piece" handle impresses me. It is totally machined in one titanium piece or assembled by soldering ?

Anyway, I wish you (in advance) a Merry Christmas !!!
 
Joe Talmadge sums it up nicely for me:

... BTW, this doesn't reduce the Sebenza in my eye as the knife by which all production knives should be judged. A custom knife like the Lochsa should surpass the Sebenza, though many customs fall short where the Lochsa succeeds ...
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Ted
 
"Buy what you can afford to lose" I don't know whoever said it, but it still works for me. :)
Enjoy whatever knife you end up with.




Blades
 
I like that "Buy whatever you can afford to lose."

It's right up there with "Don't buy no ugly knife."

No matter how high some people fly the sebenza flag, you can't deny the fact that there are a lot of people on these forums who sell them off for one reason or another. The fact that many people unload them, means they can't be the best thing since sliced bread.

You also can't deny their simplicity, which is why many people like them. However, the simplicity really means they are easy to build, and thus cheap to manufacture. Flat handle slabs with a low quality handle and blade finish is really not tough. Pivot assemblies created with CNC machinery is also not rocket science and not expensive.

CRK holds the price high through their dealer "arrangements." If they ever fall through, or if the Sebenza cachet begins to faulter, the retail and resale prices will drop like stones.
 
Originally posted by Louky
Why not Sebenza VS Terminator 3
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I have a few Benchmades and an ATR, and they're all great, but I don't have a Sebbie and haven't seen Terminator 3.

Offhand, I'd guess that the Sebenza has better fit, but that they both have a predictable finish. Sebenza might be better for breaking down boxes, but T3 might be better for breaking box office records.

Looks like a job for Kliff Stump!
 
I must be in the minority here, I don't find the Lochsa to be an attractive knife at all. I much prefer the classic, simple lines of the Sebenza, especially the classic wood inlay models. I am impressed with the construction techniques on it however.

I've handled a number of custom knives (and own a few) and many many production knives. The Sebenza is unlike any production knife I have ever had in that it is of equal or better quality to any custom I've ever seen. Yeah, if you want a different blade material, like Stellite, then look into customs. But most people don't need or want that. I prefer S30V for my blades and I like the looks of the Sebenza. I could easily afford a custom knife instead, but why. I have seen many custom knives that arn't built with nearly as high of a level of fit and finish as a Sebenza and I've never seen a knife that I thought surpassed it, only equalled it.

While the Sebenza seems so simple to manufacture there is more to it then that. The shapes are easy, but the tolerances and hand fitting that go into each knife are what drive up the costs of manufacturing it and that is also what makes it such a great knife. If it was that easy and CRK was just keeping the prices high through the dealer agreement don't you think some other smart company would come in and build a knife equal to it for much less money? Think of all that they could sell. I've yet to see it done which leads me to beleive that it can't be. I've handled the top end of many production knives ($150-$200 range) and they don't have the level of fit and finish and overall quality that the Sebbie does. There is a reason there are so many die hard Sebenza fans and that is because it has earned them.

All it comes down to is buy what you want. The Lochsa is a knife that impresses me, but doesn't appeal to me. For the same price I can have a wood inlay Sebbeza which I like the looks of better. Quality between the two is a moot point, I'm sure they are equal because I don't think you can do better then perfect. The fact that one is a "custom" and the other is "production" doesn't mean much to me in this case because I don't really consider CRK to be on the same level as other production knives. If your into having your knives made by one person all the way through, then go custom. I like that on some knives and can see that as a valid point for deciding to go with the Lochsa. For me, I'll stick with my Sebenza.
 
If anyone is still reading this thread, let me chime in on a different angle here.

What is vitually identical in the Sebenza - Lochsa equation is the blade shape. Chris doesn't seem to want to challenge his crew to make a different blade shape.

Although Scott clearly can make other blade shapes (at least daggers), he hasn't applied himself to any other blade shapes for the Lochsa, which is virtually identical to the blade on a Sebenza.

I am sure Scott is very, very busy filling orders and doesn't need to invent a new blade shape.

For all the wonders of and discussion about the handles, the bottom line is that since they have virtually identical blade shapes and steel, the cutting performance should be virutally identical.

Some day, one or both will dare to make something other than a high drop-point folder blade. When that day comes, I'll look into buying/carrying one of these folders.
 
To answer the original question, yes, the Lochsa is a more refined Sebenza. Better ergos IMO and better attention to detail. The contours on the handle are very comfy and well placed. The integral handle is a wonder to examine. The fit of the spine/handle when the blade is open is pure elegance (even without the fileworked spine). The pivot pin and wrench make a nice pair. In case you haven't guessed, the Lochsa really stands head and shoulders above the Sebbie. Well worth the additional cash. Scott is also a joy to work with and chat with. You won't be disappointed with either.

The Sebbie is still a wonderful knife. It remains one of my 3 EDC's even after 4+ years and many, many customs. The knife probably works better now than when new. It is still equals or betters the majority (no, not all) of the custom folders I have handled and owned. And this includes more than a few big names. I think the majority of the used Sebbies you see are people just wanting to check them out and see what the fuss is about. To use it is to love it.
 
I still don't understand the Lochsa vs. Sebenza debate? Okay, they've got similar blade shapes, and are priced "relatively" close to each other. But on is a factory knife and one is a custom. One has slab handles, one has a single billet contoured handle. One has S30V, or a limited choice of Damascus (I will admit the Gary House stuff looks awesome) whereas the other I can choose any makers Damascus I want (which I have).

I CAN understand factory versus factory comparisons. In particular the age old (well since 1999 when I came on the forums) debate of Sebenza vs. Pinnacle. Both similar blades, titanium slabbed handles. But you can buy 3 Pinnacles for the price of a Sebenza, so maybe it's not a fair comparison.

How about Buck/Mayo TNT vs. Sebenza. Both S30V, both titanium handles. The TNT however has a contoured handle, and as good fit and lockup as the Sebenza. Finish on the TNT isn't quite at the level of a Sebenza, but you can buy two of them and have money for lunch over a Sebenza.

How about Kershaw Bump vs. Sebenza. Both S30V, both titanium handles. The Bump has 3D machined/contoured handles, and multilayer anodization (maybe you like it, maybe you don't). It also has Speedsafe, the coolest gadget factor in knives since I've been into knives. Finish? The Bump is a top quality knife on par with the Sebenza. And I can buy two Bumps and have money left over versus a Sebenza.

Am I qualified to make these big statements? I think so. I own a custom Mayo, custom Onions, Buck TNT and a few Kershaw Bumps. I've had in my possesion for a few days a Lochsa (bought it for a friend, and he wanted it before I became too attatched). I buy, collect and use these knives, because I believe in the people who make them. Scott, Tom and Ken are all GREAT guys. BTW, I sold the Sebenza to buy the Buck TNT AND the Kershaw Bump!

~Mitch
 
i need to make more money to buy these great but expensive knives

i like sebbies cause u can customize them to your liking
i ordered an airborne operation scene and no1 else would do that for me

lochsa, looks great but havent had the chance to see 1 yet in person
 
Why do sebenza owners say their knives are "wood inlayed"? Isn't "wood attached with double back tape" more accurate?

Applying double back tape requires very tight tolerances and is hard to "fit" correctly. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Architect
If anyone is still reading this thread, let me chime in on a different angle here.
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of course people are still reading this thread, i only posted it yesterday. no need to be jealous of my uncanny knack for starting hot threads ;)

blademan13 - your words hold lots of weight, thanks.

everyone saying "buy what you want, etc" - this is a discussion & sharing of views, which are bound to differ. of course in the end i'm gonna buy what i want. duh! lol

good feedback everyone.
 
Mitch - I don't disagree with your "custom" versus "sebenza" position.

Regarding the "titanium folder versus titanium folder" issue, your mathematics are specious.


A Kershaw Bump is sold at $275 MSRP. Regardless of what any of us pays (I paid $164 shipped at knifeworks - it's shipping today!) the bottom line is that the list is $275. Since CRK is able to sell the Sebbies for $340 and does a pretty good job at enforcing that pricing, there is only a $65 dollar difference. Just because Kershaw can't maintain the same pricing structure (their dealers make less profit per sale), that isn't Chris's problem.

I picked up a Sebbie in like new condition on these very forums for $175 (yes, a rarity, I know). So, if you want to go back to the math on the Sebbie vs. Lochsa debate, you might be comparing a $175 knife to a $450 knife. That is a pretty significant difference.

Math aside, the best customs are more appealing than any factory folder. Whether they perform better as tools is pretty difficult to say.

BTW, Alan, if you can stand the color scheme, the Bump should be very, very promising. Only a few days until I get to try one out.
 
The Bump looks mighty fine and I can't wait to hear about when someone gets one and tells us about it. As far the the Lochsa versus Sebbie, there's the idea of availability. If a person has a jones for a new knife, the Seb might win due to being able to get one pretty quickly.
 
Originally posted by Architect
Alan, if you can stand the color scheme, the Bump should be very, very promising. Only a few days until I get to try one out.
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just checked it out. nice shape, looks like a real cutter, fresh innovative design, great materials. but oh lord, the color of the handle just murders me. they're on to something good though, no doubt.
 
It's called inlayed because that is what it is. A pocket is cut into the handle and the material is put into the pocket. An overlay is where the material is just stuck on the outside of the handle surface without a pocket being cut for it. The fit for an inlay is very critical because the size of the pocket cut has to perfectly match the size of the inlay material. The "double stick tape" is a little fancier that what you might pick up at the grocery store. It works and works well, I've yet to hear of any inlays falling off.

I don't really think it's fair to compare knives by MSRP if that isn't what they sell for. I don't care if a knife has a MSRP of $1000, if it commonly sells for only $150 then I would still compare it to knives selling for a similar amount. The Sebenza is far and away more expensive then most production folders (of course you have Striders, the Cuda Aftermath, etc.) but from what I have seen and felt, also better. I've breifly handled a Bump and it's a great knife, no doubt, but it wasn't on the same level as the Sebenza in my opinion. The Cuda Dominator I think is also a close competetor as I said in a previous post. S30V blade, Ti handles, great design. I had one for a while and really liked it. It wasn't as good as the Sebenza in fit and finish, but other then the Sebbie it was one of the best production knives I have seen. Of course, there have been some complaints about QC issues with that one (and the Buck Mayo if I remember correctly) which is something you really don't have with the Sebenza. The Sebenza just has a much higher feel of quality, I have yet to see any production knife that matches...IMHO.

Finally, how do you figure you can get two Buck/Mayo's and still have money left over? The Buck/Mayo looks to go for around $185 at a lot of places while a small Sebenza can be had for around $285-$300. Not nearly double the price of the Buck/Mayo.
 
Originally posted by Boink
The Bump looks mighty fine and I can't wait to hear about when someone gets one and tells us about it.
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Mr. Ewing has a Bump review in the reviews section of www.bladeforums.com It looks like it's the kid-tested/mother-approved folder of the flat-sabre grind/S30V/assisted-opening/framelock set.
 
Originally posted by alan aragon
no need to be jealous of my uncanny knack for starting hot threads ;)

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Alan, do a search. This discussion has been had on BF probably a dozen times before,LOL.:D
 
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