sebenza's being outmatched for the value

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IMO Hinderer, Strider & CRK all make great products but CRK offers the best value because you dont just get a knife, you get an entire Bandwagon!
 
The "bandwagon" is a well documented form of groupthink in behavioral science and has many applications. The general rule is that conduct or beliefs spread among people, as fads and trends clearly do, with "the probability of any individual adopting it increasing with the proportion who have already done so". As more people come to believe in something, others also "hop on the bandwagon". The tendency to follow the actions or beliefs of others can occur because individuals directly prefer to conform, or because individuals derive information from others.

Look, i am not knocking the knife but it just seems that Sebenza's are everywhere - therefore they dont appeal to me.
For the money i would rather have a Hinderer, Strider or a nice custom that is unigue and not ownwed by everyone and their mother.
Sorry if you do not agree but this is my opinion and i doubt it will change as several friends who fell subject to the CRK bandwagon have tried...for my 400+, i'll be picking up another custom Fellhoelter or another Strider, or perhaps a beautiful and fine Hinderer - I'll save the Sebenza'a for the masses!
 
Your "bandwagon" phenomenon occurs here at BF with every knife that has a MSRP >$50, though.

trashboss said:
The "bandwagon" is a well documented form of groupthink in behavioral science and has many applications. The general rule is that conduct or beliefs spread among people, as fads and trends clearly do, with "the probability of any individual adopting it increasing with the proportion who have already done so". As more people come to believe in something, others also "hop on the bandwagon". The tendency to follow the actions or beliefs of others can occur because individuals directly prefer to conform, or because individuals derive information from others.

Look, i am not knocking the knife but it just seems that Sebenza's are everywhere - therefore they dont appeal to me.
For the money i would rather have a Hinderer, Strider or a nice custom that is unigue and not ownwed by everyone and their mother.
Sorry if you do not agree but this is my opinion and i doubt it will change as several friends who fell subject to the CRK bandwagon have tried...for my 400+, i'll be picking up another custom Fellhoelter or another Strider, or perhaps a beautiful and fine Hinderer - I'll save the Sebenza'a for the masses!
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JNewell said:
Your "bandwagon" phenomenon occurs here at BF with every knife that has a MSRP >$50, though.
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bigmo66 said:
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You just ain't whistling dixie Steve! :D I appreciate trashboss's candid reply. I don't agress with you 100% JNewell, as it's rare to see the mad dog, "stomp a mudhole in the infidel's" arse mentality that accompanies discussing anything but praise for CRK offerings.

I think they have scouts that look in other forums to spot threats to their beloved knives and then mount a counter attack on anyone bold enough to criticize a CRK knife. :p :D
 
From what I've seen and felt (A sebenza being one of those things), Knives normally have a more drastic quality upgrade from the $30 to $100 range. I never saw a difference in quality or performance high enough between something like a $100-$200 Spyderco or Benchmade knife than a Sebenza. It's very similar to what car you decide to drive.

A Nissan Sentra gets you from A to B just as well as any Ferrari, but some people want to arrive in style.
The only difference in the knife point of view is that the Sebenza won't cut anything any better or any worse than a knife $400 cheaper, no matter how much snake oil you rub on it.
 
Not only do the Sebenzanistas all jump on their bandwagon, the anti-Sebenza crowd has a bandwagon of their own! :D

(Don't look in that mirror!)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Not only do the Sebenzanistas all jump on their bandwagon, the anti-Sebenza crowd has a bandwagon of their own! :D

(Don't look in that mirror!)
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Touché Esav. But, it begs the question: why does does an anti-Sebenza bandwagon exist.?
 
Also because some people buy a Sebenza with a mark on the blade, then try to repair it themselves, ruining it in the process, then expect CRK to replace it and then start a vendetta when they don't get what they want. Then they scout any Sebenza thread and stir things up and making blanket statements implying that people cannot think for themselves and buy Sebenzas because of group think. Ironically they bought a Sebenza also. But I assume they did not do it because of group think, because they are special.
 
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l2lku2 said:
Also because some people buy a Sebenza with a mark on the blade, then try to repair it themselves, ruining it in the process, then expect CRK to replace it and then start a vendetta when they don't get what they want. Then they scout any Sebenza thread and stir things up and making blanket statements implying that people cannot think for themselves and buy Sebenzas because of group think. Ironically they bought a Sebenza also. But I assume they did not do it because of group think, because they are special.
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You have a very vivid imagination in light of all of the existing information that has been uncovered as of late, such a person or bandwagon has video taped evidence that current S35VN offerings are performing very poorly in such simple tasks of cutting a 3/8" bit of rope w/o a catastrophic failure of the edge.

IMO, bumping the HRC up to 61 - 62 may be the action that "turns the worm" and restores these folders back to the top of the heap again. Just my $.02
 
cziv said:
You have a very vivid imagination in light of all of the existing information that has been uncovered as of late, such a person or bandwagon has video taped evidence that current S35VN offerings are performing very poorly in such simple tasks of cutting a 3/8" bit of rope w/o a catastrophic failure of the edge.

IMO, bumping the HRC up to 61 - 62 may be the action that "turns the worm" and restores these folders back to the top of the heap again. Just my $.02
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If you are under the mistaken assumption that I was referring to CTS you are wrong. I was referring to you. If you think I am here to defend CRK or Sebenza or any knife or brand, you are again mistaken. I am here because you have become annoying beyond the point where I want to remain silent. It is predictable that most threads where the Sebenza / CRK is discussed will have your pointless negative comments in it. Critique the knife if you want. That is what the forum is for. But you carry on more about those that like the knife than the knife itself.

I won't be buying any S35V Sebenzas and I have no interest in defending a Sebenza in any form or fashion. Those who like them like them, those who don't, don't.
I don't like how the steel performed in those videos either. In addition, I had decided not to buy any more new Sebenzas long ago - because of the Idaho Stamp. I don't like it. It does not affect the performance of the knife but I still won't buy it.

I like specific knives, not specific brands. I don't like CRK one piece knives. The handles are too round and the texture on the handles is too aggressive. I don't like the Mnandi either. Too gentlemanly for me.

There are many knives I don't like but other people do. I don't go around pouring derision on other peoples' knife choices or imply that they are mindless passengers on a bandwagon, incapable of thinking for themselves. You do. I get as annoyed by misplaced brand loyalty as I do by arrogant assholes that have nothing better to do than insult others because of their knife choices because they don't agree with their choices.

And just because you ruined your blade and CRK did not replace it now you have to go around insulting everyone that likes CRK knives. Grow up.
 
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Nah, there are "Bandwagons" and then are some downright "Clubs" where Black Suburbans pull up out front and people who speak "badly" of a Godlike Product are carted away and never heard from again. Hinderer ain't one of those but the one beginning with "S" comes pretty close.
Nice knife but, the "Be All" and "End All" it is represented as being..... it ain't and for that matter, No Knife is. Lots of nice ones? Yes, AbsoFreakingLutely.
One Best knife of all time that all others fall second too?
Nah. Nothing in that category exists.
 
l2lku2 said:
If you are under the mistaken assumption that I was referring to CTS you are wrong. I was referring to you. If you think I am here to defend CRK or Sebenza or any knife or brand, you are again mistaken. I am here because you have become annoying beyond the point where I want to remain silent. It is predictable that any thread with Sebenza in the title will have your pointless comments in it.

I won't be buying any S35V Sebenzas and I have no interest in defending a Sebenza in any form or fashion. Those who like them like them, those who don't, don't.
I don't like how the steel performed in those videos either. In addition, I had decided not to buy any more new Sebenzas long ago - because of the Idaho Stamp. I don't like it. It does not affect the performance of the knife but I still won't buy it.

I like specific knives, not specific brands. I don't like CRK one piece knives. The handles are too round and the texture on the handles is too aggressive. I don't like the Mnandi either. Too gentlemanly for me.

There are many knives I don't like but other people do. I don't go around pouring derision on other peoples' knife choices or imply that they are mindless passengers on a bandwagon, incapable of thinking for themselves. You do. I get as annoyed by misplaced brand loyalty as I do by arrogant assholes that have nothing better to do than insult others because of their knife choices because they don't agree with their choices.

And just because you ruined your blade and CRK did not replace it now you have to go around insulting everyone that likes CRK knives. Grow up.
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I have insulted NO ONE who likes CRK knives. Further, you can spout off all that you care to but you gain nothing by fighting from behind a keyboard. You are now trolling this thread since I'm trying to discuss the topic at hand while you are making some personal and irrational vendetta. Discuss the topic or push off.

You state the negatives of CRK's and then point a finger at me for asking what the bandwagon term is? We're talking about the value of CRK knives - you've stated your opinion and I've not completely stated mine. How many CRKs have you owned? How many customs or high end mid-techs? Why are your posts of any value at all to this thread or to me?

In regard to your statement that I ruined my blade? That is utter nonsense as my Sebenzas have all had perfect blades except for one and that was taken care of by myself and CRK. It's final disposition is nothing you are even privvy to. If my posts bother you, pony up the few bucks it costs to upgrade your membership and put me on your ignore list. You just made mine. :D
 
cziv said:
In regard to your statement that I ruined my blade? That is utter nonsense as my Sebenzas have all had perfect blades except for one and that was taken care of by myself and CRK. It's final disposition is nothing you are even privvy to. If my posts bother you, pony up the few bucks it costs to upgrade your membership and put me on your ignore list. You just made mine. :D
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Here is the link to your website that totally contradicts what you are saying.

http://www.zimbio.com/Best+folding+knives/articles/CzN97dZO323/Chris+Reeve+Large+21+Sebenza+S35VN

I don't want to cut and paste from your site because you will probably whine about copyright, but to paraphrase, you state that after you tried to repair it, it looks ridiculously out of proportion and you get a sick feeling when you look at it.

And you are correct, I don't know the final disposition but I do know that it was not replaced because you sold that same blade here on BF:

Large Sebenza S35VN

Here was also something else you that you were unhappy about:

cziv said:
Chris Reeve tested the hardness of one of my S35VN blades at his shop (long story exactly like CTS's). I was a little ticked off when I got it back, he didn't take your suggestion and test a spot on the tang but left a tiny divot in front of the thumbstud. Cost me a good penny in price reduction for an otherwise minty Sebenza when I sold it. :mad:

CRK did make me acutely aware that they did this for "NO Shipping Charge!" :D

Shakes head and wonders how people can treat customers with a problem so poorly?? :confused: :grumpy:
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And regardless of the final disposition of the situation, here is how you feel about it:

cziv said:
Thanks Neuron for that ^^^! You don't dare to post a problem about a CRK offering w/o a couple of things happening.

First, you post so the blood's in the water and then, like watching one of those shark feeding frenzy shows on Discovery you get a bump here and a bump there and then wham you're torn to pieces by the fans.

Second, if you're lucky you get a personal phone call as a bonus and get an earfull from the boss! Yay! I'll buy another one and see if I have better luck since this issue (what's being discussed now) is poppycock and yadaya *&^% plz call me before posting that kind of stuff.

It's time for the gloves to come off - I got a beat down publicly and privately for my issue with a crappy CRK S35VN blade and I'll never do business with these folks again. ...
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So you clearly have a score to settle with CRK, and also with the "fans", and those on the "bandwagon".

So where exactly is it that you are discussing the value of CRK here? Here maybe?

cziv said:
You just ain't whistling dixie Steve! :D I appreciate trashboss's candid reply. I don't agress with you 100% JNewell, as it's rare to see the mad dog, "stomp a mudhole in the infidel's" arse mentality that accompanies discussing anything but praise for CRK offerings.

I think they have scouts that look in other forums to spot threats to their beloved knives and then mount a counter attack on anyone bold enough to criticize a CRK knife. :p :D
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I have not found a single post of yours in this thread discussing the value of CRK. All you have done is troll and try to stir things up.


cziv said:
I have insulted NO ONE who likes CRK knives. Further, you can spout off all that you care to but you gain nothing by fighting from behind a keyboard. You are now trolling this thread since I'm trying to discuss the topic at hand while you are making some personal and irrational vendetta. Discuss the topic or push off.

You state the negatives of CRK's and then point a finger at me for asking what the bandwagon term is? We're talking about the value of CRK knives - you've stated your opinion and I've not completely stated mine. How many CRKs have you owned? How many customs or high end mid-techs? Why are your posts of any value at all to this thread or to me?
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So what are the value of your posts then? BTW, tough guy, you are fighting from behind a keyboard also.

And stop contradicting yourself.

I am not stating the negatives of CRK from a bandwagon. I am sure in your limited view that I am posting because I am on either of the bandwagons, for or against CRK. I am neither. So I pointed out which CRK models I don't like. But I do like others and I own these currently:

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Since you asked, I have owned 4 Hinderers, 2 Striders and many other production folders - no customs.

Oh, and BTW, it is pretty stupid to ask me questions and then put me on ignore before I get to reply. Similarly I guess it would be stupid of me to reply to someone who puts me on ignore, and though I am addressing you, the reply is here for others as much as it is for you, whether you read it or not.
 
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