Seller and Buyers - Read This

Banter in a "for sale by individuals" thread for a production knife should be limited to queries about the condition of a user, as the specs can be found on a Google search quickly, and no-one needs to comment on a mass produced import. They should rightfully get dinged with infractions for that.

A handmade knife is different. I feel the rules should be less stringently enforced in the maker's section. Complimenting a fellow's craftsmanship, offering constructive criticism on the design, or asking specific questions about the knife should not be discouraged.
 
Might as well toss in my 2 cents here.

As a buyer, I don't mind the buyer questions and comments, and maker replies. I find it helpful when the buyer says “funds sent” and the maker replies "item shipped". Next, the buyer replies "item received" with a few comments or impressions. This helps me to see how quickly the maker ships and what the buyer thinks about the blade. If a buyer asks a question, I like to see the answer and how quickly the maker responds. The entire transaction record is there as a quick reference for buyer, seller and others to see. As a buyer, this is all good for me.

For makers, I can see how this can act as an inadvertent bump advantage over other makers without comment activity. The solution here (mentioned earlier) is to not allow a buyer’s post to bump the thread. Only the seller (OP) should be able to bump the thread. Ultimately, this is a software issue and may or may not be possible.

My primary beef as a buyer is digging down through numerous threads, post after post, only to find the “SOLD” notification in the final post. I don’t mind going through page after page of thread titles looking for a knife, but I don’t want to wade through dozens of threads, with multiple posts, looking to see if the knife is sold or not. If I could change one item, it would be to require the maker to edit the thread title to state “SOLD” when the knife is no longer available. If I can see at a glance if a knife is available, I know whether to open the thread or not.

If “SOLD” is listed in the thread title, there is more incentive for buyers to look through multiple pages for a knife. This should be good for the sellers as well. As it is, I rarely look beyond page 2 as it takes too bloody long to read through all the threads just to see if a knife is sold.

We may not always agree, but I appreciate the efforts of the moderators. (Usually a thankless job with a bit of a target on your back).

Cheers all, TR
 
When it comes down to it us makers are all proud of are work, we like hearing the awws and ooohs,it makes us feel good wheather we sell the knife or not,if we were fighting and fussing among ourselves i could understand,but as far as i have seen nothing like that has happened we all respect each other on the forsale thread,no matter whos on top or bottom,now buyer seller deals maybe diffrent you cant please everyone,thats when the good,bad,ugly comes in,as being payed members <knifemakers> i think we should work it out between ourselves,we pay to keep the forum up and running,aswell as other paying members,there was never a problem b4, it appears atleast 85-90% of us see it that way,spark could you please give us some kind of response on this please,your than man that make the changes, it would be highly appreciated by us all
bests! Bacustomknives
 
[QUOTE.....,if we were fighting and fussing among ourselves i could understand,but as far as i have seen nothing like that has happened we all respect each other on the for sale thread,.......! Bacustomknives[/QUOTE]

Actually, I get a complaint at least weekly, sometimes several a week. I have let it ride so far, dealing with it on an individual by individual basis, but the problem has become so rampant that we decided to take it public.

I have determined that I made an error in informing several dealers that their number of threads was in excess of the limit. You are allowed as many threads as you wish.
I am waiting on an answer from Spark about any exemption from the rule on dealers thread bumping and commenting. If you are a dealer and I sent you a notice by PM, I apologize. Please unlock any threads that you wish to keep active. We will wait on Sparks answer as to the bumping/commenting issue.
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
I think it is in the vBulletin coding and can't be changed.
Click to expand...
Actually, this is an option available by default in vB. No hacks/mods needed!




Spark/mods, if this is something you wish to investigate...
What this will do is prevent replies from bumping threads altogether. It is a sub-forum friendly option, so you can pick and choose which forums will use this feature and which you want to leave as the default.

To enable this, do the following:
(Note: I am looking at vB 4.x control panel for this info, BF's 3.8 might be a tad different)
-In the Admin Control Panel, navigate to 'Forums & Moderators > Forum Manager.'
-Enter the 'Edit Forum' option of the desired subforum.
-Change the 'Default Sort Field' from 'Last Post' to 'Thread Start Time.'
--Repeat for any number of subforums.

Bumping will never again be an issue.
People can comment until their fingers bleed.

Having said that, disabling bumping altogether will come with it's own set of complaints. You really can't win. :p
 
There's still going to be plenty of people who won't read this thread & the comments will keep rolling in on any given knife. That's a given you're going to have to deal with. Personally, I think you're creating more headaches for yourselves by doing this.
And frankly, I'd be willing to bet the majority of makers want feedback (good or bad) on their knives when they post one for sale. I know I would.
 
Fascion said:
Actually, this is an option available by default in vB. No hacks/mods needed!




Spark/mods, if this is something you wish to investigate...
What this will do is prevent replies from bumping threads altogether. It is a sub-forum friendly option, so you can pick and choose which forums will use this feature and which you want to leave as the default.

To enable this, do the following:
(Note: I am looking at vB 4.x control panel for this info, BF's 3.8 might be a tad different)
-In the Admin Control Panel, navigate to 'Forums & Moderators > Forum Manager.'
-Enter the 'Edit Forum' option of the desired subforum.
-Change the 'Default Sort Field' from 'Last Post' to 'Thread Start Time.'
--Repeat for any number of subforums.

Bumping will never again be an issue.
People can comment until their fingers bleed.

Having said that, disabling bumping altogether will come with it's own set of complaints. You really can't win. :p
Click to expand...

perfect Fascion , now is there a feature where they can allow the thread stater (person who wrote the thread ) to bump his/her own thread ??
 
ONeill said:
perfect Fascion , now is there a feature where they can allow the thread stater (person who wrote the thread ) to bump his/her own thread ??
Click to expand...
Not that I am aware of, no. :(

I know there have been a handful of "bump" mods that have been made for vB. They provide a button that allows the poster to perform a textless bump. They would keep everything a bit neater, but I'm not so sure they would work with the aforementioned 'Thread Start Time' sort option. That... and I'm not sure how comfortable the staff here is with modding the vB install.
 
As a fairly new maker and very new seller,I would very much miss the comments.I would especially miss comments by other better known makers.I feel their comments give a potential buyer a little assurance about purchasing from a newer maker,such as myself who hasn't been a maker long enough to have a reputation.

IMHO changing the Knifemakers Market so that only the OP can bump the thread would solve the most problems and address the biggest complaint that the makers seem to have concerning the rules.It would also make only the maker-seller responsible for any infractions to the rules.It would also seem the only logical way to stop the bumping.You can't expect every new member or potential customer to know that they can't make a comment and only a small percentage will read the rules.Giving out infractions to potential customers would only hurt the sellers.On the other hand,the maker-seller should know the rules and be expected to abide by them or receive an infraction.It would be much easier on the moderators to police the much smaller number of makers-sellers than the entire forum.
 
I am a mostly "lurking" forum member, but I have bought 10 to 12 in the Knife Makers market over the last four or so years, all fixed blades. Not a big customer, but I do buy.

One of the MAJOR reasons I make first buys from a maker is the comments in the sale thread. I do mean it is 50% to 75% of the reason I risk the money it takes me a long time to save in the "mad money" box on someone I do not know. Buying in a sound proof box is not what I want. I like a market place, not a store with a no chatting/no touching rule.

I have been able to ask a question that I know was in the minds of others, as I was told that. And to be honest, I like being heard too, it adds to feeling like a client, or even in a small way being a patron, rather than just being a sales point cash unit.

Jumping from thread to thread does affect my enjoyment of a subject, but if an automatic link to a separate thread with all the discussions on a knife for sale was there, that would work. As in a button with "All Comments" that would have all but the listing post itself that develop shown, leaving that first listing post to be updated by the maker/seller as a stand-alone post in the forum. The comments would not affect the rank in the sales thread list, would not "bump" the order.

Oh, I like having the price kept on after sale. We all know that there are folks who copy all new listings as part of their business, so the only people that dropping the price from the listing after the knife is sold affects are the casual buyers and fans like me.

I do like letting other buyers know my history with a maker, and to let a maker know what I like about their work.

Dino in Reno
 
I have bought literally hundreds of knives off this forum. I would probably never have bought the first one without seeing the feedback in the threads. When I have bought a good knife I have said so to inform both the maker and other buyers. Sometimes I don't comment on the forum but PM the maker. I don't air dirty laundry in the forum and I do try to encourage worthwhile makers.
I came here from another forum years ago when differing opinions got PC. I can go elsewhere to spend money if compliments are not wanted
 
We all know there is problem. I will suggest how to solve it. I could bitch about it. But facts are I make money here. I rather solve the problem than gripe about it.

1. Allow makers to delete a thread.
2. Do away with automatic bumps.

or better yet

1. Doing away with comment response completely, only allow the original post, except for a 72 bump by the maker.
2. Allowing changing the title unlimited number of times and text. This allows us as makers to reuse the same thread over and over. We could sell 10 thousand knives and never add but the one thread.

Thank you
Jim
 
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Alas this is disappointing. Obviously I don't post much... 40 in 4 years? Yikes. I come to this forum to admire the amazing works of art
that these guys create. Ive purchased in the past for my dad, but decided this year I'm going to treat myself to a great blade if I find
the right one. Perhaps the most influential factor in deciding to seal the deal were the positive comments from other makers. If they're
impressed, I know for sure that I'd be.

I did of course post pics after acquiring my new blades, as a thank you, and also as a compliment to show how satisfied I am. One thing that
I think comes to mind for buyers of a knife is use vs. show. Is this knife meant to be set on a stand to show off, or to use? Well I bought mine
to use for hunting and proudly posted a pic after using them on a deer I took last week.

I guess I was breaking the revised rules and didn't realize it. I didn't know about all this behind the scenes drama either. This seems
a bit harsh, but I'm just a lurker with a few buys and posts.
 
bladsmth said:
Jim,
Those are good suggestions. Send them to Spark and see what he says.
Click to expand...

I hope Spark is watching this thread. But I actually think I can work with existing system as it is. If Mods can keep the chatter out of our threads.
I can make it work.
I just had to step back and look at the system as a whole. As you know I am very aware of the problems in both fixed blade and folders.
I am just going to change the title and text in my post as the knife changes.
 
okay, I'm not having any issues really with any of this.

I do respond to specific comments on a grind angle or material choice, but I don't think I'm out of hand, and I'm often not much in the habit of bumping at 72 hours and zero minutes. SO I'm not terribly worried about any of this.

All that aside, I have one thing I just want to make sure is totally, ridiculously clearly allowed. I do often split a for sale thread into 2 or 3 initial posts, where I'll follow up on the original post in a matter of minutes (preferably before anyone comments) with extra photos. To my way of thinking, since it's in that initial 5 minutes to one hour timeframe, I'm not bumping, I'm just finishing up.

We all good with that? It seems obvious to me that it isn't "bumping" but....


edit-

I see a difference between "nice knife" comments and specific "nice knife, I like the way you pulled the guard out, how's it balance?" comments.

I also think that it matters when a maker comments on another maker's knife in certain circumstances. for example, if it is a maker's first, seventh, or whatever- early sale on BF and I've met the maker in person, handled the knives, know the guy, I feel it would be not only appropriate, but a service to the community to stand up and vouch. I realize this can get into crazy "cooperative bumping" which I do avoid, but such things can be ferreted out by mods. This is why mods are humans and not software bots.

I'd suggest a couple specific guidelines as a difference to removing too much of the commentary (acknowledging that some of it is not needed, but some is valid)

1: if you have more than one knife to list in one day, make one thread. I've done this in the past and really shoulda done it with the last 3 I posted. I'd MUCH rather see 5 posts by a maker in one thread for 5 knives than have the maker make 5 threads. Well, currently. A year ago it wasn't such a big deal.

2: a display option showing a one line per thread entry in text links only with no graphics for a bit more density of browsing by those so inclined
 
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Christof, posting a few initial posts, say one each for a few knives, or a whole bunch of pictures maybe for a new model -- that's great. It doesn't violate the spirit of the 72 hour rule.

Everyone hold on a bit. Spark is going through a lot of suggestions, and we may see some fixes for some of the confusion and complaints. Keep the suggestions coming, here or the suggestions thread in Tech Support.
 
I really like and appreciate comments in the makers threads. It's a good thing. Like to see ya all figure out a way to keep those comments coming without shafting sellers and all. Killing all comments on the customs is a bummer.
 
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