Serrations

[frenchmade]

Well I warned everybody that I might do it, so here it is. The Endura that this thread made me buy.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Ooh--is that ZDP-189 I see? :thumbup:

 

[frenchmade]

Yes it is. I haven't had much time to test it obviously, but I've opened a couple packages today and it zipped through some shrink-wrap easily.
I have a feeling that this will be my new EDC for a while.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It's great steel. You'll love it! One of the few "exotic" steels I really enjoy.

 

[Bill1170]

I have looked at his serrations. They seem very fragile, and I do not think they would hold up very well in my line of work. I might be mistaken though. Have you ever had the opportunity to use a knife with his serrations?

No, I have not used the Veff serrations. I have used and like the Spyderco serrations, and also own a 10" Forschner bread knife with single scallop serrations. I touch it up on the 204 Sharpmaker and this is easy to do.

I mentioned the Veff aftermarket service because it is the only one I know of that will serrate an existing knife. There may be others out there.

 

[klute]

Serrations position the cutting edge at a better angle for leverage purposes is what i always thought, and that's why they can cut so good with more control through tuffer materials ie plastic, wood and such. I prefer them on my work knives they can cut through a chunk of plastic or something easily and with more precision.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Serrations position the cutting edge at a better angle for leverage purposes is what i always thought, and that's why they can cut so good with more control through tuffer materials ie plastic, wood and such. I prefer them on my work knives they can cut through a chunk of plastic or something easily and with more precision.

If we are talking about cutting solid plastic or wood, then of course a "serrated" edge is the appropriate tool. It's called a saw. I always carry a Bahco Laplander into the woods for wood processing, and I would never dream of using a knife to cut PVC pipe. There are saws for that. If we are talking about actual knife cutting tasks, then a plain edge is better. But if we're veering into the stuff you're talking about, then yes, a serrated edge is better, but that's sawing. In which case, yes, I agree that a serrated edge has a place.

 

[REK Knives]

Well, another problem with serrations is that it's really hard (I would imagine) to maintain a specific serration pattern when you're trying to sharpen it. Every serrated edge has a specific serration designed for a specific purpose. Some of them are crazy, with various large serrations mixed in with tiny serrations. Try sharpening that and *not* alter the pattern.

If we are talking about cutting solid plastic or wood, then of course a "serrated" edge is the appropriate tool. It's called a saw. I always carry a Bahco Laplander into the woods for wood processing, and I would never dream of using a knife to cut PVC pipe. There are saws for that. If we are talking about actual knife cutting tasks, then a plain edge is better. But if we're veering into the stuff you're talking about, then yes, a serrated edge is better, but that's sawing. In which case, yes, I agree that a serrated edge has a place.

I think you are absolutely right on the part about a serrated edge excelling at more "saw-type" tasks... For an all around beater where you never know what you will be cutting/sawing through I think it is an excellent option. As others have pointed out, however, I use my knives for purposes that a knife was meant to be used for.... i.e. no prying, no using it as a screw-driver, no cutting through thick pvc, etc. I use it to *cut* things and that's it. So for my EDC purposes, I prefer a toothy plain edge knife w/ no serrations (finished on a 1k grit diamond on the WEPS to be precise ).

That being said, I would have to disagree with those of you who say that it cannot be done or is very difficult... sharpening serrations does take a little practice, but they can be just as sharp as new after sharpened... i.e. popping hairs off of your arm again and push cutting through newspaper.

Here's a little story for you

My cousin works in the automotive industry - he's a mechanic. He cuts all sorts of stuff... tubing from pipes in car engines, hard plastic, rope, etc. and he absolutly LOVES a fully serrated edge - and he has used both believe me.

here is a knife that a guy who came through on one of the tool trucks at his work "sharpened" for him... it started off as a CRKT w/ veff serrations... this is how it turned out after he gave it a few passes through the Work Sharp (even after my cousin specified with him that it *could* sharpen serrations).

He told me to do whatever I wanted to it... so I did a little experiment, lol. I put mini Veff serrations the entire length of the blade (free hand mind you)

Another close up:

This was about 6 months ago and I haven't sharpened it since for him... he uses it every day and fell in love w/ it. he had thought it was ruined but it ended up being a good blade thanks to serrations . Now he has another one he wants done :/ lol.

Ok, as far as re-profiling a serration pattern and keeping the same profile, it can be done... I have done this multiple times.

Here is one I completely sharpened - peaks and valleys.

Here are re-profiled serrations:
Before

After:

While they may not be absolutely perfect, they do slice and cut perfectly and very efficiently. And no... I don't use the sharpmake rods or even a tapered DMT rod... I have never found those to work that well. They will put a basic edge in a serration but not make it shaving sharp (at least I couldn't get it that sharp). I did these on the paper wheels

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Well, if it works for you, then I guess I can't say anything about that. I will say that those look like fantastic sharpening jobs. And it looks like it was mucho trabajo.

 

[REK Knives]

thanks... well like I said, its not my favorite edge by any means but to each his own. Its not much work, just takes the right touch. It takes about 15 min for a fully serrated knife.

 

[BagofDeadCats]

What do you guys think of three point serrations, such as those found on the combo edge of a Tenacious?

... Versus serrations like the ones on this Leek?

I find combo-edges to suit an urban EDC quite well, given that my cutting tasks vary greatly from day to day. I have found little difference in the quality of performance, other than the 3 point serrations tear more, while the more even serrations provide a smoother draw on each cut.

so, on your question of serrations I HAVE to go with kershaw...I know this has been the topic of many discussions, but spidey serrations tend to "grab" moar than they actually cut as opposed to kershaw, which cuts fantastic and "glides" moar easily through rope in particular. I haven't cut much moar than this substrate with both, but I absolutley have to give the EDGE (pun intended) to kershaw serrations.

 

[BagofDeadCats]

Full SE or plain edge for me. The only PS blade I really like is by Victorinox...

+1 on this!!!! the only "partially" serrated knife that really "does it all" is this kind, with the serrations toward the tip of the blade, because all the fine "detail/carving" work you do is close to the hilt!!! But cutting tasks that "require" serrations, it doesn't matter where the serrations are along the blade!!!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Serrations offer a very long cutting edge that's effectively accordion folded into a shorter blade length. The peaks of the serrations also reduce the surface area of the edge making initial contact against the cutting medium, piercing to initiate the cut. Additionally, when cutting against an edge-damaging backing material like a ceramic plate or rope wrapped around a pipe, only the peaks will contact that material and dull, while the interior of the serrations will remain sharp.

All of these things provide benefits for certain circumstances. And those circumstances are not the same circumstance under which using a saw would be appropriate.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Good point. I forgot to add steak knife in addition to bread knife. Those are the only two serrated blades you need. As for cutting rope wrapped around pipe, I've never needed to do that in my entire life. I won't be carrying an extra knife around just in case I come across a pipe wrapped with rope that needs cutting. I'll just cut more carefully with my plain edge.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As for cutting rope wrapped around pipe, I've never needed to do that in my entire life. I won't be carrying an extra knife around just in case I come across a pipe wrapped with rope that needs cutting. I'll just cut more carefully with my plain edge.

Merely one example, and I don't plan on carrying a dedicated knife for the task either. However, it does represent a class of situation that may be more commonly faced by some individuals and represents a very good reason to carry a serrated knife. Cutting against metal surfaces is a situation commonly faced by auto mechanics for instance.

If a knife doesn't work for your unique set of typical tasks, environments, or situations, then don't buy or carry it. This extends well beyond whether or not the blade is serrated--it's just one of many variables that contribute towards arriving at the proper knife for you. :thumbup:

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I've made peace with serrations. I really dislike combo edges unless it is of the Victorinox variety.

I prefer serrations in some steels and blade types. I actually prefer Spyderco's H-1 in a serrated hawkbill.
I usually carry a multi-tool with both kinds of blades. The straight edge does 90% of the work. However, I like the serrated blade for cutting boxes or trimming rope and hose. I find the if I strop the business side of the serrated edge after each chore, i don't need to fool with stones. It stays plenty sharp.

 

[Mike8008]

Well I warned everybody that I might do it, so here it is. The Endura that this thread made me buy.

Did you get that from W&W?

They're such a great supplier. I haven't actually been to the store(only purchased online) because I'm scared I might drop too much $$$ with all those toys on hand.

 

[Dr Heelhook]

I'm a serrations fan. Nice knifeˆ. Used to have a serrated Delica in ZDP, but lost it in the library . Have a Salt 1 spyderedge on the way to replace it .

 

[Dr Heelhook]

I think you are absolutely right on the part about a serrated edge excelling at more "saw-type" tasks... For an all around beater where you never know what you will be cutting/sawing through I think it is an excellent option. As others have pointed out, however, I use my knives for purposes that a knife was meant to be used for.... i.e. no prying, no using it as a screw-driver, no cutting through thick pvc, etc. I use it to *cut* things and that's it. So for my EDC purposes, I prefer a toothy plain edge knife w/ no serrations (finished on a 1k grit diamond on the WEPS to be precise ).

That being said, I would have to disagree with those of you who say that it cannot be done or is very difficult... sharpening serrations does take a little practice, but they can be just as sharp as new after sharpened... i.e. popping hairs off of your arm again and push cutting through newspaper.

Here's a little story for you

My cousin works in the automotive industry - he's a mechanic. He cuts all sorts of stuff... tubing from pipes in car engines, hard plastic, rope, etc. and he absolutly LOVES a fully serrated edge - and he has used both believe me.

here is a knife that a guy who came through on one of the tool trucks at his work "sharpened" for him... it started off as a CRKT w/ veff serrations... this is how it turned out after he gave it a few passes through the Work Sharp (even after my cousin specified with him that it *could* sharpen serrations).

He told me to do whatever I wanted to it... so I did a little experiment, lol. I put mini Veff serrations the entire length of the blade (free hand mind you)

Another close up:

This was about 6 months ago and I haven't sharpened it since for him... he uses it every day and fell in love w/ it. he had thought it was ruined but it ended up being a good blade thanks to serrations . Now he has another one he wants done :/ lol.

Ok, as far as re-profiling a serration pattern and keeping the same profile, it can be done... I have done this multiple times.

Here is one I completely sharpened - peaks and valleys.

Here are re-profiled serrations:
Before

After:

While they may not be absolutely perfect, they do slice and cut perfectly and very efficiently. And no... I don't use the sharpmake rods or even a tapered DMT rod... I have never found those to work that well. They will put a basic edge in a serration but not make it shaving sharp (at least I couldn't get it that sharp). I did these on the paper wheels

Wow, you are tha MASTAH.

 

[Tilaran]

Well I warned everybody that I might do it, so here it is. The Endura that this thread made me buy.

I can fix'er right up with a 60 grit belt when you're ready.