Should custom knifemakers act against hype?

C

Cliff Stamp

BANNED
Joined
Oct 5, 1998
Messages
17,562
If you are a maker and you see someone promoting your product to levels that you know are not realistic do you have a responsibility to say something? What about if you don't know (have never done the specific claim) but suspect based on personal experience?


-Cliff
 
Well, I'm not a maker, but from the standpoint of a customer, I feel much better about buying a knife from someone who acknowledges that s/he is not perfect. I'm a big proponent of "he who knows knows he knows not," and I like to see that I'm dealing with someone who knows their own limitations. When I hear makers talking about needing to expand their training, or pushing the envelope of their capabilities, I usually pay far more attention to their work than if they say 'I'm perfect right now' or something to that effect.

--JB

------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
CLIFF ANSWER THIS QUESTION:
What hype are you speaking of. Give us an example Cliff . You must have an agenda im sure. Spill the beans.
What is your question really about? Who is hyping a makers product ? Inquring minds want to know.


------------------
Web Site At www.darrelralph.com

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06-27-2000).]
 
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by GaKnife (edited 06-26-2000).]
 

wink.gif
I learned this from Kit Carson . I like the way he does business . Its simple and pure.
Before I put a product on the market I have it tested by real life users that I keep in a stable.

PART OF THIS POST WAS DELETED !!!!
I wont waist my time on this crap!!!

------------------
Web Site At www.darrelralph.com

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06-27-2000).]
 
Hi Cliff,

I agree, what do you consider hype. Mad Dog is obviously full of hype.

Emerson lists his knives as the world's #1 hard use knife. What has allowed him to make this claim. Ive used a lot of knives, and I would not give this knife that title. He finally just admitted in his forum he put the grind on the left side becuase he felt it photograhped better. So much for the great design master!

I think you find the majority of the hype in the factory side of the house. This of course is not called hype, it is called "marketing".

Does the truth get bent, almost with every knife introduced by a factory. How can every new knife be the latest and greatest. For a while all the hype seemed to be about locks.

Factories swore that Custom Knife makers would soon be adopting these incredible locks. I have not noticed a new trend of custom knife makers using the axis lock and the one that REKAT was marketing. Good locks to be sure, but not so good that makers gave up the liner lock.

I know, if you beat the back of the blade hard enough on a table or some other hard object, you can get the lock to fail. Talk about hype. How about all the hype in the "tests". And those self appointed experts who have come up with tests that in no, way, shape or form test lock reliabilty using the knife as it was intended.

I do agree with cliff, Darrel and Jerry that educating the custom knife buyer is essential to custom knives continuing to grow.

Are there makers out there who start to belive their own press to the point that they start to get a little lax in their knife making. Yes.

Are there custom knife makers who make so many knives that the quality control seems to have been a little lax that day. Yes.

Over time the customers sort these individual out. However, it can take years for this to occur. In the mean time excellent knife makers get irritated, jealous and puzzled and find another vocation.

I do feel that just like most custom knife makers who have been around for 5 years or more are akin to the custom knife buyer who has been buying custom knives for 5 years. Most of them know how to seperate hype from performance.

But education to remove fact from ficition cannot be overemphasized. Hope this thread makes it into the top 10!



------------------
Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

"Nobody throws me my own guns and tells me to run, nobody!
 
Jerry-that dictionary I sent you has done wonders-you are becoming an extremely knowledgable and erudite spokesman for our forum....I commend you highly.....
smile.gif
Cliff, you really have me stumped!!

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com




[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 06-24-2000).]
 
If I hear that a customer is claiming extraordinary results for my product I won't call him a liar but I will simply state what my own experience is with the product or recount others experiences that I consider more credible.

It is better to understate your product's performance characteristics than build up unreasonable expectations that may or may not be met. I claim that my moose knife will dress an entire moose without resharpening, I will tell customers that some individuals have claimed to have dressed two or more animals without resharpening but that my guarantee is still only good for one moose. Usually this is all the promotion that the knife needs when talking with serious hunters. If I start making all sorts of wild claims I will just chase off the knowledgable individuals that make up my customer base.

------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
Les :

How about all the hype in the "tests". And those self appointed experts who have come up with tests that in no, way, shape or form test lock reliabilty using the knife as it was intended.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point, not what I was thinking of but important none the less. By hype I meant statements that are false meant to promote the knife. However as you pointed out Les you can tell the truth and be very misleading as well. I don't agree with your specific lock example, however the point remains - should a maker be obligated to point out that a specific test which shows his blade performing very strongly actually has little or no relevance to actual use but just showcases an aspect that his blades happen to be very strong in?


George :

If I hear that a customer is claiming extraordinary results for my product I won't call him a liar but I will simply state what my own experience is with the product or recount others experiences that I consider more credible.
Click to expand...

George, this is exactly what I would want as a customer. Have you every recieved a negative responce from the person who made the original claim after they heard your reply?

Jerry :

I have yet to see a reviewer say something like "the knife wouldn't cut cheese, but that might be because I don't know how to use it properly". Or, "the knife failed to penetrate the frontal armor on an M1A1 Abrams, but I'm not sure it was ever intended to do that".
Click to expand...

I do that all the time and know of several others who do the same thing. The review by James Healy of the Busse Mean Street does exactly this :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001832.html


I did some light chopping of sticks and boards. The knife didn't perform as well as i had expected here. It chopped well, but somehow i expected more. I think this was simply due to my expectations being too high. Don't get me wrong, it does chop, but that's not what it was designed for.
Click to expand...

I go outside the intended uses of a knife all the time. There are many reasons for doing so, the main one probably being that it increases my ability to understand what actually controlls the performance in a given area. Sometimes this work can damage the blades, and most cases the performance is not high relative to the blades designed to do that - which you would kind of expect.


How the heck am I supposed to know what is possible with a knife I make?
Click to expand...

There are many aspects of blade performance that are very user dependent, however this is not an unbounded effect. The question presupposed either you could do this exactly (tell it was hype) or were in the situation that George described (it seemed so). Of course how you go about coming to this determination is another important matter and not a trivial process, but not the one I was interested in.

-Cliff
 
Cliff if you phrase the correction properly no one will take offense and to date none has.

One rule that I go by is that when you are dealing in public everything that you say is noted and can come back to haunt you if you attempt to mislead the public. The only way to avoid someone remembering something embarassing in the future is never to say it in the first place.

------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
Jerry, if you can't make such a decision then obviously the question is not relevant to you, it was for those who can. I would be curious however to see if you would take the same stance if someone posted a negative review of one of your blades that you thought was misleading, biased or false.

-Cliff
 
Ive been lucky enough to have customers that are completely honest with me, as well in any reviews they post.

I have made changes in my design and making process due to customer feed back and use. To a maker, especially a new one like me, the customers end use is an extremely important tool in what i do and how i do it.

And Yes, if some one were obviosly trying to mislead in a review of my knives, one way or the other, i would jump in and give my opinion.

------------------
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"
Thomas Jefferson

www.lameyknives.com

[This message has been edited by RMLamey (edited 06-25-2000).]
 
Jerry if you can't judge when someone is hyping your product, how can you judge if they are underpromting it? Both actions require you to have some predetermined performance baseline for your to compare against. You either have the ability to do both or neither.

-Cliff
 
Just as there are physical laws that govern the universe...there are also spiritual laws the control things which we cannot see... because I am sure of something does not necessarily make it true...only that I believe it is true...and by believing, I cannot change any of the spiritual or physical laws, only follow them or find myself being deceived..and that by my own mind.....so..who is right....the man who thinks he is right...or the one who thinks he is wrong??? If you stand too close to the edge..you will fall off the cliff.

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Cliff,

I was a little confused by your comment that you didnt agree with my example of the lock.
You think locks should be expected to maintain the blade stability even when the knife is being used in a way it was not designed for?

------------------
Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

"Nobody throws me my own guns and tells me to run, nobody!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top