Show and Tell

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Jim,

I am sure we all respect your judgement and choice of knives. I know I admire the way you have handled yourself in this thread and attempted to answer the questions being posted. I believe they were valid questions and ones I would like to see answered, but you are not the one to be a in a position to answer them. Thanks for the information you have posted.
 
I just handled a Shiva Ki Spirit Blade from primo knives. It's a hefty Bowie, good balance- doesn't feel heavy at all. 10.5" x 2.25" wide x 3/16" thick. Nice flat grind and acute bevel. Finish is rough, intentionally. The handle, rayskin and silk wrap over wood, is very comfortable and is a take-down. The recurve blade plus the handle angle gives it a good chopping edge, like a mild kukri. It reminds me of the cutting contest recurve that Kevin Cashen made- a design I really admire (I ordered one from Kevin).
I'm going to the NY knife show, I look forward to seeing some cutting. The knives are certainly appealing and well made.
 
This is a piece Shiva made back in 1983. It is called the Pirate Gator and is the only one he made. If you look close you can see the 1 stamped on the guard.He changed the design to the popular Gator Hunter. The steel in this is L-6, 7 1/2" blade and 12 1/2" Overall.. Shiva is a great guy and makes using knives, I live 10 miles from him.

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I have read many good things about Shiva Ki's knives and have really not heard or read much of what I would consider to be hype. He backs up his claims and is not afraid to put his knives up against anyones when it comes to cutting.
 
Hi,

The use of the name "Samurai Steel" is what is raising red flags. It is a bad choice of nomenclature, and is inherently as contentious as the term "mid tech" when used in the wrong context.
"Japanese Sword Steel" is the american name for steel smelted from iron rich ore made in Japan, called tamahagane. This is the only steel that Japanese Sword Makers can use for Samurai Swords, as they can operate only as artisans, and craftspersons. This became law after World War II, basically due to McArthur and Company recognizing the spiritual bond between Japanese Warrior and sword. There are severe limitations on individual output in Japan.
The history of the Japanese Sword, specifically katana, matters little to those who do not covet these items, or train with them. The names, parts and techniques are difficult to understand, and associated with a rather high level of anal retention.
The bottom line is that these may very well be good knives..... but the Samurai Steel thing raises many, many questions in the minds of those interested in these things. Howard Clark produces what many of us interested in the JSA consider to be one of the toughest swords out there, out of bainite L-6. We know this because he has transparency in communications of his process, the only thing he will not reveal is the specific heat treat cycle. Al Pendray communicates very clearly how to make Wootz steel, and what materials to use. All he did was patent the process.
It would be better if Shiva Ki would explain what Samurai Steel is on his site, this would do much to clear up any questions that like minded individuals would have.
Lastly, there are many ways to make a knife sharp, and having cut in 3 OKCA rope cutting contests(and not winning one), I can tell you that most of the rope cutters that I have seen are purpose built tools. I have no doubt that Shiva Ki makes a very sharp knife, but frankly and by definition, that speaks more about his ability to sharpen a knife than it does about making one.

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson
 
"I've been told there are those who claim the 16 rope cut is faked. Dominique is not a sideshow. You must earn the privledge to see him cut. You must come prepared to cut all the rope you can. All will be video-taped. When all the non-believers have cut their max, Dominique will draw his Spirit Blade and stun you one and all. Dominique lives only 15 minutes from the NY Custom Knife show. Sharpen your knives and be ready to cut some rope--on video. Master Shiva Ki." I am just re-typing an e-mail received from Shiva that he asked me to put-up on BF. If anyone wants to see the actual e-mail, please let me know and I will forward a copy to you. I know I said I wouldn't post anymore replies on this thread but the man himself just asked me to put this up. He's trying to get the word out to ALL the big cutters from the ABS show and the like. Jim USMC
 
Nobody said the rope cutting was a fake. This is amateurish bait-and-switch technique.
 
Joss, I'm not sure what you mean by "bait-and-switch" but I ask you--Have you ever cut with one of Shiva's knives?? If not, perhaps you'd best consider yourself ignorant on the subject. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all but don't start throwing accusations around about a man whose knives have been carried by some of the countries MOST elite fighting forces. I KNOW this to be true. When I was in the Corps, we did some "training" with a little group based at Camp Dawson, West Va. This little group is called Delta Force. This was back before I had ever HEARD of Shiva Ki --1986-- and TWO of the members of the A-Team we worked most closely with had Ki knives. These guys (operators they call themselves) can choose whatever they WANT in the form of cutting implements. Hell, most of them didn't even LOOK military to us "ground-pounders." But a Delta "team" consists of 4 men and to have 50% of that group carrying Shiva's knives said something to me. I know you'll probably think all of THIS is bullcrap and that's your right but I was there and I will swear to it on my children's lives that I was. This thread was meant to show two knives that I consider to be the best all-around fighters I have EVER owned. It's now turned into this "war" over who saying what and what's true or not, etc... The NYCK show is coming up. Will see how many Cromwells and Fitchs decide to take the challenge. Shiva never designed his knives to be "rope-cutters." Just so happens they can do that too. Jim USMC I'm done with this thread! :yawn:
 
You probably won't find to many ABS smiths that will take up the challenge. The reason is that they design their knives to cut many different things. They have to not only cut rope, but 2 X 4s and other objects. Their knives are not optimized to cut rope. I suppose they could re-design their blades for just rope cutting, but since this will be of no use to them in their own cutting events, I really doubt that many/any would be interrested in doing this. Does Master Ki plan on having more than just rope cutting?
 
Hey Keith, you're probably right about how many ABS Master Smith's will take-up the challenge--why should they if they're selling good knives and people are buying them and enjoying them? Knowing Shiva, I am CERTAIN he would cut anything they wanted him to. His knives weren't designed to be rope-cutters at all. They were meant to be all-purpose type fighters. The pic on his website shows what a Spirit Blade can do to a 3" green Oak limb, so I imagine a 2x4 chop wouldn't be ANY problem. I can't believe the amount of crap I managed to start just by posting two pics of my favorite knives!! Jeesh!! Jim USMC :confused:
 
Personally, I don't think that you have started a bunch of crap at all. I think it is admirable that Master Ki is willing to put his knives up against all comers. It is just that I am left brained and I tend to analyze everything.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
You probably won't find to many ABS smiths that will take up the challenge. The reason is that they design their knives to cut many different things. They have to not only cut rope, but 2 X 4s and other objects.
Click to expand...

That's why I mentioned earlier that it would be more interesting for Shiva to enter his knives into an ABS-governed cutting competition -with varied cutting challenges, some of which would not be known beforehand. A rope-cutting competition is pretty one-dimensional.

I have to confess that I found Shiva's reply a bit difficult to follow. I could not recall where anyone alleged that the 16-rope cut was faked. Joss described that as "bait and switch" and I get what he is saying. I would describe it as building a "straw man" - putting an easily-defeatable argument in the mouth of your opponent, then tearing it down, while at the same time avoiding the central basis of your opponent's argument. Please note I use the term "opponent" here simply to describe someone expressing a differing point of view - nothing inviting the unique talents of Delta Force. :)

I also found myself wondering who "Domenique" was and how one went about "earning the privelege" of seeing him cut.

Oh well. What I don't know would fill a State library.

Roger
 
Heck, I'm just wondering if I could ever prove myself worthy of earning the priviledge of viewing him cutting the rope! :rolleyes: ;) :D
 
Dominique Beaucant is a French Chef who lives in NYC and writes the occasional magazine article and has even penned at least one book that I know of (The Randall Saga).

He is also the perpetrator of the article that was less than flattering to several top ABS smiths in Knife World last year.

He seems to derive great pleasure in stirring the pot, so to speak.
 
James - reread my post and tell me exactly where I said that the knives were bad cutter or even bad fighter?

Best cutter, best fighter, most amazing level of sharpness, etc, all are opinions, and I don't argue with them. You claim to have seen elite soldiers choosing those knives, and again I don't argue the point.

Whether I am qualified or not doesn't matter. People who deem myself unqualified will discount what I say. People who respect me for what I am and nothing more will take my opinion into account. I don't think that anyone here would buy, or not buy, anything because I tell them to, and it's the way it should be.

What I did say in this thread is:
1) The Spirit Blade looks great;
2) IMHO, the guard is not up to the design quality of the rest of the design;
3) I have always been bothered by the hype that surrounds Shiva Ki (who BTW has been around a long time, although he stopped making knives at some point);
4) His claim of using "anitique Koto technique" is disingenuous at best and most likely utter BS;
5) The term "samurai steel" further reinforce the hype and BS concerns;
6) The fact that Mr. Ki refuse to give indications on how he makes his samurai steel raises even more red flags, as all the makers I know are willing to share some element, or all of, their techniques.

I think that's it. I'll add that other things have further reinforced my bad feelings about the maker since the thread started. For exemple, there's a thread in USN on Mr. Ki right now where Dave Ellis, who is an ABS MS and a well established purveyor, says "never pay this maker upfront money". Since I've never heard him say that about any other maker, and that it's coming from someone whose business is to be well connected with makers, I do take pause.
 
Just a note, Les Robertson and Ed Caffedy mentioned to be careful with Mr. Ki. Run a search in this forum and it should bring up the old thread on him.
 
Hey all, it's me--the guy that seems to have gotten everyone's panties in a bunch by saying what I think about Shiva's knives. Joss, you seemed to be the most upset by all this and I'm not sure why. I read the other threads about Master Ki and all I can say is this man has ALWAYS been honest and up-front with me--even to the point of steering me toward some of his LESS expensive blades. When I send a knife back to him to have it re-sharpened (I can sharpen a knife, but not quite the way HE can) he has that knife sharpened, cleaned-up and back to me within 7-10 days. I HAVE sent him $ "up-front" and have NEVER had any reason to doubt his honesty.
Shiva asks once again for people to "put-up or shut-up" when it comes to his blades. As for Dominique, I don't know him, but everyone sure seems ready to TRASH him for saying something "bad" about one of the "Master Smith's" AND to TRASH him when he says something "good" about someone else's knives! I've owned a Fitch Bowie--GORGEOUS knife, sharp, well-built, no complaints. However, if I KNEW I was heading into a knife FIGHT--Mr. Fitch's 1100.00 dollar knife would be set down in a SECOND so I could grab-up Shiva's 700.00 dollar knife! Shiva says to please feel free to e-mail him if you think you have something INSIGHTFUL or INFORMATIVE to say. His e-mail address is shivakicustomknives@netzero.net. Again, I think it's fairly bold of him to offer to cut with ANYONE on video, and AGAIN his knives are NOT designed rope-cutters!! Never meant for this thread to start a big ole "Internet squabble." :( As Forrest Gump says "and that's all I have to say 'bout that." Jim USMC
 
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