Sick of hearing this!

[bladeprince]

I find it to be strange and perhaps even a little "sheeple-ish" that so many here are uncomfortable admitting that their knives are also weapons.

I carry my knives for cutting things AND for self-defense.
My knife is both a tool AND a weapon.
And I'm not ashamed to say so.

Agree!!! I carried a SAK for most of my life that worked great for any and all types of common chores. I took a Buck folder and a fixed blade when hunting and/or camping. It's only been the last 5-6 years that I've started carrying a large folder and more recently, a small (3-3 1/2&#8221 fixed blade. Because the SAK can still handle 99% of what is needed (even the dreaded "seat belt cut" we all hear about), my main reason for carrying the other knife(s) is for self defense. I've studied and continue to practice several forms of edged weapons defense that has evolved into my own style. I have a bad knee (6 operations) and would not be able to run away from any type of situation so I would be forced to stand my ground if threatened or attacked. Also, I'm not a young man any more and my punches and kicks sure don't have the power they used to (I go for eyes, throat, nuts, etc. now). I'm with you, allenC, and am not ashamed of saying that I carry a knife primarily for self defense of myself and my wife. I’m also in the process of applying for a concealed carry firearms permit. I have never hurt anyone that didn’t deserve it but bother, if somebody tries to harm me or my wife, they had better prepare themselves because I’ll guarantee you I am [prepared].

Also, one never knows what else one might run into. I was robbed and mugged at knife point by 3 men years ago and one doesn't forget those experiences easily. And there are plenty of other situations that can require a “point“ or "sharp edge". What would you do if attacked by a couple of bit bulls (not to single them out, I think they are great dogs if treated kindly) or seeing a guy beating the hell out of his girl friend that's twice your size? And that's just a few examples. We all think it happens to someone else but I’ve lived long enough to say that, that someone is you. I know from experience and the experience of my friends. Quick side note: one of my friends had some “crazy” dude break into his house one night and he was very luck to get off a shot at the guys legs with 00 buck just as the f*cker barrelled through the bedroom door. He fell on the bed on top of his wife. Probably saved their lives. Getting my point? It can happen to you!!

The problem is that there are so called "do gooders" (you know the type) that want to take away the right to even carry a lockable folder. We need to fight that fight. I suggest others listen to the radio broadcasts that Doug Ritter so kindly posted at the beginning of this thread. Even those that carry a BM 710 for just opening letters and peeling an apple had better get involved. They will take your knife away just as fast as someone like me. And don’t forget it.

Regards

 

[a223cat]

my small pocket knife is a tool only. Make a pretty sad weapon.

My Strider GB is a fine tool and a darn good defensive weapon! Unless the other guy is sporting a gun, then it is a piss poor anything!

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I'm so sick and tired of people labeling knives as deadly weapons/weapons. Why can't people see that knives are designed as a primary to CUT...whether you make a knife a weapon, is your decision...

Anyone else tired of people hassling you because you carry a fixed blade or something "bigger than your palm"?

Oh, I agree with you of course, but try carrying a gun around and see what kind of explanations you are asked for then.

Andy

 

[allenC]

Agree!!! I carried a SAK for most of my life that worked great for any and all types of common chores. I took a Buck folder and a fixed blade when hunting and/or camping. It's only been the last 5-6 years that I've start carrying a large folder and more recently, a small (3-3 1/2”) fixed blade. Because the SAK can still handle 99% of what is needed (even the dreaded "seat belt cut" we all hear about), my main reason for carrying the other knife(s) is for self defense. I've studied and continue to practice several forms of edged weapons defense that has evolved into my own style. I have a bad knee (6 operations) and would not be able to run away from any type of situation so I would be forced to stand my ground if threatened or attacked. Also, I'm not a young man any more and my punches and kicks sure don't have the power they used to (I go for eyes, throat, nuts, etc. now). I'm with you, allenC, and am not ashamed of saying that I carry a knife primarily for self defense of myself and my wife. I’m also in the process of applying for a conceal carry firearms permit. I have never hurt anyone that didn’t deserve it but bother, if somebody tries to harm me or my wife, they had better prepare themselves because I’ll guarantee you I am [prepared].

Also, one never knows what else one might run into. I was robbed and mugged at knife point by 3 men years ago and one doesn't forget those experiences easily. And there are plenty of other situations that can require a “point“ or "sharp edge". What would you do if attacked by a couple of bit bulls (not to single them out, I think they are great dogs if treated kindly) or seeing a guy betting the hell out of his girl friend that twice your size? And that just a few examples. We all think it happens to someone else but I’ve live long enough to say that, that someone is you. I know from experience and the experience of my friends. Quick side note: one of my friends had some “crazy” dude break into his house one night and he was very luck to get off a shot at the guys legs with 00 buck just as the f*cker barrelled through the bedroom door. He fell on the bed on top of his wife. Probably saved their lives. Getting my point? It can happen to you!!

The problem is that there are so call "do gooders" (you know the type) that want to take the right to even carry a lockable folder. We need to fight that fight. I suggest others listen to the radio broadcast that Doug Ritter so kindly posted at the beginning of this thread. Even those that carry a BM 710 for just opening letters and pealing an apple had better get involved. They will take your knife away just as fast as someone like me. And don’t forget it.

Regards

Well said!:thumbup:

 

[bladeprince]

Well said!:thumbup:

Thanks. I was in a hurry and just now fixed about 10 typos. I need to slow down but sometime the stuff just rolls out. Sure you know what I mean.

Keep the faith,
Gary

 

[DH1]

All this talk about buring upside down in your car got me thinking...I'm going to clip a folder onto my drivers side visor:thumbup:

 

[bladeprince]

All this talk about buring upside down in your car got me thinking...I'm going to clip a folder onto my drivers side visor:thumbup:

Some double-sided sticky Velcro is also great. I keep a knife under the dash, one on the side of the glove box (make it easy to grab), and one Velcro'ed to the inside of a little open dash compartment that's for CD's and cassettes. There a several place to put them on any vehicle. These are all 3", G-10 cheapies that you can pick up at a gun show or online for $5-$10. No reason to do this to a bunch of nice Enduras. The nice knives are on my person.

And for the record, I also have a police night stick and 7" fixed blade under the seat and pepper spray in my "console hump" container. And don't forget at least 2 flashlights, one of them hight intensity.

My next project is a .50 caliber on the roof...

Regards

 

[DH1]

The officer that pulls you over is going to have a feild day with you...

 

[bladeprince]

The officer that pulls you over is going to have a feild day with you...

Nope. Everthing is legal length for concealed carry in my state except the fixed blade. I just grab that and put it on the seat. No problem. Plus, they have to have a search warrant to go through the car. But I could probably take out a couple of them anyway. I went a little overboard when I first got the idea.

 

[Hondo.3]

I may or may not carry a knife as a weapon,, however I'd never admit to it in public..

I consider this forum public.

My knives are tools.

 

[tirod3]

Double check the "search warrant" for the car. I believe the Supreme Court ruled that one out. I was taught your car can be searched in a stop for the officers protection or if contraband is in plain sight. Of course, your jurisdiction may be different.

allenc, no doubt the managers in the puzzle palace have had to rethink some previous decisions about training content, but it doesn't change the history that knife fighting is a rare occasion in combat. As for the street, most local confrontations are heat of the moment flash and slash - Joe Dude goes over to talk about Chad Benders behavior and it goes knifisitic. Kinda like the old west, usually two young drunk punks out in the street.
As for an actual mugging, the description sounds like it was used as a tool of intimidation. I am making the distinction because it takes training to use one as a weapon - just like a handgun, and the hit probability by citizens and police is poor in that regard.

The length of reach in weapons has been the #1 factor in improvement over the centuries. From knives to sword to pikes, then guns, artillery and airstrikes, the standoff distance has increased exponentially. In personal protection, it's the same - as many instructors have printed - get distance. The object is to stay out of range. I'm aware of the 21 foot rule and the speed of an attacker, armed or not. That's where armed carry requires close range defensive tactics on a hand to hand level, not only for weapon retention, but as an effective response.

Cutting someone with a knife cannot guarantee a disabling injury, nor will their response be impeded. It takes a specific and purposeful decision to wade within your opponents reach to deliver an injury capable of stopping an attack. I don't see the knife as the best weapon for this purpose, as it cannot deliver a disabling blow in the hands of the average user. They are not sufficiently trained.

You are the weapon, the knife is a tool.

BTW, 70% of knife violence is a desperate housewife in a domestic dispute, so we really need to emphasize that the people most likely to ask "Why do you have a weapon?" are the ones most likely to use it. In other words, women weaponize knives. Men carry knives as tools, but choose not to use them as such.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Double check the "search warrant" for the car. I believe the Supreme Court ruled that one out. I was taught your car can be searched in a stop for the officers protection or if contraband is in plain sight. Of course, your jurisdiction may be different.

There *shouldn't* be any jurisdictional variations on the rules governing police actions during stops. The rules are implemented nationally based on Supreme Court stare decisis.

In a nutshell -

If a LEO detains an individual for a short period, such as for a moving violation (vehicle stop) but no arrest occurs, the officer may only do what is necessary to ensure the officer's safety during the stop. The LEO may not "go through" an individual's vehicle unless the individual gives consent or has a search warrant in hand based on probable cause.

The LEO may certainly look into the vehicle (any visible contraband is fair game), but may not open glove boxes or make an effort to look under seats, etc. without cause unless making an arrest, and then only in those areas easily accessible to the person arrested.

Hope this helps...

Andy

 

[allenC]

Well, this is really getting in to the territory of the "Practical and tactical" forum but....

I am making the distinction because it takes training to use one as a weapon - just like a handgun, and the hit probability by citizens and police is poor in that regard.

Not true.

Cutting someone with a knife cannot guarantee a disabling injury, nor will their response be impeded.

True. But a knife certainly increases the odds that you will be able to deliver a disabling or impeding blow...much moreso than bare knuckles alone.
Even primitive cavemen learned that a weapon is better than no weapon.

BTW, 70% of knife violence is a desperate housewife in a domestic dispute,

Where did you get this stat from?
I would disagree.
Does it take in account the prison populations around the world?

I don't see the knife as the best weapon for this purpose, as it cannot deliver a disabling blow in the hands of the average user. They are not sufficiently trained.

No, a knife is not the best weapon for personal defense.
BUT...
It is easy to carry.
It is legal to carry in many places where firearms are not legal to carry.
It has other uses besides self-defense.
And it is absolutely deadly when used on another human.

And the average untrained Joe on the street is definitely capable of delivering a disabling blow with a knife.
You do not need "training" to defend yourself with a knife.
I repeat...
You do not need "training" to defend yourself with a knife.

"Knife fighting" and knife "training" for self-defense is one of the biggest scams pushed by the martial arts industry.
Do you need training for DUELING with edged weapons?
Probably.
Does the average person need special training to use a knife for self-defense?
No.
Convicts in nearly every prison around the world use blades to successfully attack others and to successfully defend themselves, and the vast majority of these prisoners have no knife training whatsoever.
Also, I see folks in the hospital where I work everyday who were stabbed and cut by untrained folks...sometimes I see them in the ER and sometimes I see them in the morgue.
For millions of years untrained folks, with knives, have been killing other folks with no problem at all....it aint that hard.
The martial arts industry has been pushing the notion that without special training a person cannot defend themselves with a knife, or even worse, they will have their knife taken from them and used against them.
It's all a load of manure.

 

[tirod3]

Stats are from the DOJ and circulated by the NRA. Hit probabilities are from Police range instructors and incident reports as reported nationally.

A local case in point - local ex con runs from a traffic stop and starts firing from a revolver. Local police chase him on foot, firing over thirty rounds.

The suspect is stopped - permanently - by one round from a rifleman.

My point is to agree with the original post. Knives being considered weapons first is flawed thinking that doesn't address real world effectiveness. I would go further, but I'm not too good at shooting a moving target - you're editing your post faster than I can respond.

"No, a knife is not the best weapon for personal defense."

I agree. And I have carried one for, gosh, almost 40 years, and have learned it's not highly probable I'll ever need it for that.

I'll slip in the tub first. I keep that in perspective.

 

[moonwilson]

All this talk about buring upside down in your car got me thinking...I'm going to clip a folder onto my drivers side visor:thumbup:

That's probably not the best idea. If you are in an accident, there's a good chance that folder is going right into your face with more force than you would like it to. Hopefully it would stay closed when it does this.

 

[Whoever Wherever]

While I agree that knife training is at least partial B.S., to say that training cannot increase the chances of retaining ones weapon or avoiding common and stupid mistakes (e.g. leading with the knife wielding hand) is misleading imo. If you have ever been through a course on weapon retention for knives or guns you would know that taught by proper instructors these techniques have saved at least dozens of LEO lives. A person with training in disarming techniques can in the swift and disorienting first seconds of an encounter can relieve you of your weapon. LEO's are more prone to this as there weapons are visable and they may not know an attack is starting till the perps hand is on the gun. A proper holster will counter this to some extent. Second all training is good for two reasons as long as it is "good training". When an average person is plunged headlong into a life and death situation they revert to impluse. They become sweaty and shaky often. In this situation if you have practiced a draw and deffend movement enough it should be second nature and require little to no thought. That said, you do not need to go to special schools to learn good drills and practice at home. One of the best close encounter techniques is a fall away discharge because it works with your natural body reflexes as you at confronted (obviously not everyone reacts the same, but good training will also show you your weaknesses in your reaction and response). Therefore trainng both familliarizes you with your options in a self deffense situation and makes you more likely to use said responses without hesitation or locking up.

 

[son_of_bluegrass]

Well, maybe someday someone comes up with a new description for the weapon to tool quotient of an item, but until then some things have a higher ratio than others.

For example: I am pretty sure you can use a nuclear warhead to hammer a nail into a wall, but still ...
Same goes for guns, though they have a recreative use of course (do bombs have one too? ).

That being said, I still like my knives.

-Connor

The next time someone claims a knife is a weapon ask him to define what exactly a weapon is. Nearly everyone gives a laundry list of items that are weapons without offering a usefull defination. I am not aware of any legal defination for weapon the does anything other than list examples and end with "and like items". That is completly useless to let people know what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[allenC]

I don't have a legal definition for "weapon", but here's a simple common sense definition:

Any item that is commonly and intentionally used to injure or kill other humans and/or animals.

So, by my personal definition, knives are weapons (and firearms too) as they are commonly and intentionally used to injure or kill other humans and/or animals.
Yes, a chainsaw can be used as a weapon...but it is not commonly used for that purpose.

 

[Unsub]

I had a very misspent youth so I have some knoledge that might not be available to the general public. As far as a search of your car the LEO can basicly do whatever he wants you may with a good lawyer be able to eventually beat it in court but probably not. Convicts have extensive knife training they often study anatomy and get to see real successfull and failed knife attacks in person.
I had also practiced coming out of the standard on your knees interlocking your fingers over your head position by lifting my right leg and doing a shoulder roll.

The best weapons are not viewed as weapons I have used a newspaper(rolled lengthwise and folded in half), a sony sports walkman and a can of chunky soup
to defend myself with.

I have the perfect invisible weapon in my car in case of emergency. Along with my jumpercables,towstrap,parka and other winter essentials I have a Cold Steel special forces shovel. So far the only thing I have used it for is digging my civic out of a snowbank but I feel better knowing it is there and
it looks completly innocent(at least in winter).

 

[allenC]

I think most of us are adults here, and I think we all know what someone means when they say "weapon".

If I'm at a friend's house and we hear some disturbance out in the backyard, I might ask him if he has any weapons handy....

and he would probably bring me a firearm or knife or maybe a baseball-bat.....
but he sure as heck better not hand me a can of chunky soup or a Sony Walkman!!!