Slippie vs modern - steel

I've never seen a sub-standard heat treatment but some companies do run their steel very soft. (Case)
Heat Treatment is more important than the actual steel used. I don't believe it.
I will say that heat treat is important in similar steels. Say 420HC and 440A, heat treat can make one better than the other.
Having said that, Case's 420HC won't hold an edge as long as Buck's 420HC.

Buck does a better heat treat than anyone on 420HC but it won't hold an edge to Queen's D2. Queen only runs their D2 to around 58 HRC that is a couple points softer than D2 could be hardened to.

Whether the newer steels are worth it is up to the individual user. I sharpen a lot less than I used to. I've found that with the right equipment M390 is no harder to sharpen than 420HC. I carry and work knives, so to me, it's worth it.

You can use a cheap company issued super safety box knife. Use a Case and carry a coffee cup on your belt. Use a super steel because you enjoy using your knife more than a stupid box cutter.

Newer steels aka super steels will migrate to traditional pocket knives. The debate can't be cleared up, the debate will never end.

Basically I don't care, I'm just enjoying my Roundhead barlow.
 
Personally, I don't get the debate.
My old Schrade (US) 7OT with 440A or Buck 110 with 420HC, or one of my carbon steel knives, like Opinel and Mora, even my Trappers, Stockman, Opinel, or any of my other traditional knives with ho-hum "obsolete" steels will skin and butcher a deer or two without having to resharpen it, clean rabbits and other small game and birds, clean a mess of panfish, whittle a feather stick or a tent peg, what ever I need, cut packaging tape, open envelopes, cut thick foam, open bags of food, and slice veggies.
I don't change my EDC daily. I'll carry the same knives for years on end, in fact.
I usually strop my knife once or twice a week, usually on a dry leather or canvas strop. On the rare occasions I need a polishing compound, I have another leather strop for that.
I rarely, if ever need to use a stone on any of my knives, yet they are all sharp enough to shave arm hair.
I don't do a lot of whittlin' these days, but I did a little back in the early 90's. I did not have to maintain my knives any different then than I do now.
I also place a very high value or priority on being able to maintain my knives in the field. A knife I can sharpen in the field with anything from a piece of river rock or a cheap pocket stone, in a couple minutes, is more valuable to me than a knife I need special diamond or silica stones to sharpen, that I may not have with me, or take hours to resharpen.
Do the newer "super steels" have advantages over the more traditional steels like 440A and 1095? Yes. From what I've heard, they "stay sharper" longer, and may be a bit more rust resistant (at least for the stainless steels) and they can be run at a higher RC number. (but is that last one always an "advantage"? The higher the number the harder it is. Thus regardless of what steel is used, the harder blade, the harder to sharpen, and may be more brittle, to boot. To me, that is 180° from being an "advantage".
Do I personally need a knife with a "super steel"?
No. I do not. As I said, any of my knives are quite capable of skinning and butchering at least two deer, before the edge needs touched up. I don't take more than one deer a year. (no place to keep the second)
My knives do everything I need them to, without a fancy "latest and greatest" steel.
When growing up, I was taught
"If it ain't broke, DON'T "FIX" IT!"
My knives work just fine, for my uses. I don't need to "fix" a problem that does not exist for me.
Maybe others "need" a knife with the latest and greatest steel. But, lets be honest here, "want" is not necessarily the same thing as "need".

O.K. I'll shut up now. :)
Please feel free to hate me, if you like.
You won't be the first nor the last to hate me. :)
 
Last edited:
afishhunter: I'm a big outdoorsman too. I've probably processed or been involved in processing 45 or 50 deer in my life. I experimented some and took note of what others used. I've settled in with a queen red stag trapper in D2 and a Bark River in A2. The latter needs a slightly thinner grind, the queen is magnificent as is.

I take issue with the statement that the newer design are better. Depends on the job. I settled on these because they outperformed the other stuff I used or saw being used. For other purposes? Maybe I'd be saying the modern folders were better.

This topic reminds me of the one about hunting boots. A lot. There is always the line about this or that boot being "more boot". I have a pair of high dollar Lowa's that fit that description. In my eastern mountains they never get used. The old US made Irish Setters from my youth go deer hunting every year.

Are they a more stout? No. Would they stand up to sidehilling in scree fields for days on end like the Lowa's? No. But they beat the stuffing out of the others for lots of up and down hiking, comfort, and ease of traveling fast.

I'll never argue when someone from Montana suggests that a good pair of Schnee's is just what a young hunter should buy. But if never take the suggestion seriously for myself.

Will
 
Seems this subject is just destined to pop up from time to time. Being a knife enthusiast I can appreciate the newer steels that are available these days. But truthfully how many of us really use our knives enough to tell the difference. There is a thread called Traditional folder usage during a day with a poll attached and by far most respondents say they only use their knives 2-4 times a day. With the exception of a few that may use a knife in daily work most of us just don't use our knifes enough for blade steel to matter. I do get it though it's like cars I really enjoyed the raw power of muscle cars with a 396 or a 390 under the hood but it's nice to get the comfort and gas mileage of the new cars. So unless you are one of the exceptions, you use your knives to quarter or half those cars. or you just love to debate the pros and cons of knife steels it just don't matter as long as you like YOUR knives.
 
I am very interested into steel's choices, since i make knives.
The blades i make for my slipjoints are recently made of 1.2519, a tungsten carbon steel which i run at working hardnesses of 64 hrc because it will stand it very very well. I love this "modern" steel because of its incredible edge stability. That's to say it can (and it is engineered to) be shaped with amazing low edge angles and retain the sharpness without chipping or rolling. It is not a stainless steel and even it is modern, it is not an high carbide volume steel.
For my own tastes and experience it is the best steel, outperforming all the high carbide super-steels, but it's just that i love push-cutting edges than sandpaper cutters when it comes to having a knife in my pocket (and/or in the kitchen).
By the way, "older" carbon steels (1095, w2, 52100...) can be run at working hardnesses of 62-63 hrc and be better push cutters than high carbide steels, because of their edge stability. When you have excess of alloy so much it forms huge carbides there is no way it won't compromise grain boundaries and matrix's stability. They are engineered for wear resistance, not for keen edges.
D2 blades are used in industry to cut thousands of feet of abrasive material and excel at this task (as well as this steel's family), but the geometry of those blades are different from what we want to find in a pocket knife.
The fact many people are happy even with blades at 56-58 hrc and basic steels tells much about how we are able to exploit the properties of the material in our every day chores, so i don't see any real advantage running after misplaced top notch steel technology, for applications requiring other properties more than hypes.
In the same time we can feel immediately when a blade stops push cutting and i prefer steels able to prolong this ability than steels that can't keep push cutting but can go on sawing with their IMHO blunt edges indefinitely.

Rust is another can of worms LOL :)
 
I don't know of any sources for steels like 1.2519/O-7 here. I've wanted to find good Carbon Tungsten steel for years but no joy. Something like F3 or F4. I'd even go up to F8 if I could get some. The best I can do is order about 80,000 lbs of it. :)

I agree with you though about higher hardness's. I don't find them more difficult to sharpen and in some cases they are nicer sharpening than at lower hardness's. Queens D2 is nice but I'd enjoy it more at rc 61.

On the other hand I still like my old Schrades and Imperial knives running plain carbon steel in the mid 50's. The only steel I really don't enjoy is 440C. The payoff isn't worth the effort IMO. This from a guy that has fun sharpening 10V or Maxamet ( at rc 64.5 and rc 67-68 respectively)

Joe
 
I've carried modern folders for years with my primary being a Chris Reeve large Insingo. The S35N steel is decent but it too will lose a shaving sharp edge pretty quickly. Compared to 1095 it does keep a working edge quite a bit longer but is also takes a little bit more work. I see it as the 1095 of modern steels out there. Pretty soft and easy to sharpen.

As I move more and more to traditional knives it is more about the grind, the blades available, and the overall usability. The knife that I always have with me is an Alox Vic Pioneer. Soft steel but the functionality is just so good that I have just adapted to doing a quick touch-up when needed. The good thing about the soft steel is I can touch it up on pretty much anything. When cutting cardboard I just strop it a little on a piece I cut and the edge is ready for more. Bottom line is I can pretty much adapt to any steel as long as the grind and functionality of the knife is there.
 
It's good to have the huge variety of materials we have to choose from now. The hardest part is deciding which particular materials and designs would suit our intended purposes best, whether it is chopping up cardboard, gutting game animals, or scraping dirt from under fingernails and opening a blister packed item just bought. I do happen to have several Queens with D2 blades, and they are excellent edgeholders along with only showing corrosion if abused. An ATS34 custom that is my primary hunting knife, and even a Queen with BG42 blades, the Dan Burke Cattle Knife; it should have excellent edgeholding, but I haven't gotten over the cost and succumbed to actually using it.:p
 
One of the things which people who haven't used modern higher hardness steels fail to realize is that they are actually easier to keep sharp than softer steels. Yes, they may take more time and effort to get sharp, but the maker does that. Because they wear so much more slowly, a stropping once in a while keeps them quite sharp, but you only have to do it so less often. Just don't let them get dull, and you're good to go.
 
I've been in the meat cutting industry for decades (far longer than I would like to think). We use plastic handled stainless steel knives that are "sharpened" every two weeks by the supplier(sharpened - ha - ya right).

As far as using my own knife, only for my own benefit (plastic wrapping and straps), any real hard use, I use theirs. Also, the reason why there is "super steel", is so that people buy the same knife that they already have in a "better" steel?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top