Smoky Mountain Knife Works

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JiantBrane

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Nov 10, 2002
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I'd like to recommend against purchasing from Smoky Mountain Knife Works (eknifeworks.com). I've done a lot of business with them, including as a reseller. No more. I'll be brief:

Some knives have historical value of sorts. They have a legitimate place in people's collections, etc., regardless of whatever political or ethical significance they had at one point. WWII-era knives and reproductions thereof, including those bearing swastikas, are included in this class.

I don't think I need to explain the difference between those knives and knives that simply sport swastikas, thereby endorsing bigotry and applauding one of worst stains upon human history. This might include such knives as this and this. These knives have no historical significance.

I suggested that SMKW stop carrying these two particular knives, giving them a somewhat lengthy explanation of why. They replied, explaining that they have "a customer base for those items." They also explained that they do not necessarily follow their customers' beliefs and cited a "no discrimination policy." Finally, they apologized for any offense it may cause me.

I replied, explaining that it wasn't a matter of offending me. I also explained that we can differentiate between doing business with someone whose beliefs are appalling, on one hand, and selling them goods which endorse, spread, advertise, or bolster their beliefs, on the other. For instance, I wouldn't recommend that against selling a bottle of water to someone wearing a swastika-emblazoned sweatshirt. However, it is very different to sell that person another such sweatshirt.

To sell such items is effectively stating, "We understand the customers' beliefs; we understand that these particular items have no function but to advertise, bolster, or spread those beliefs; we are willing to sell those items and make money off of them."

SMKW has not replied and is still selling those items.

I want to be clear about this: I am not claiming they do not have, or even that they should not have, the legal right to sell them. I am also not claiming that people should not have the legal right to buy them. Rather, I am stating that SMKW should choose not to sell them. I am also saying that, if they insist on continuing to sell such items, we should not do business with them: I refuse to do business with a company that tacitly endorses terrible bigotry, even if it is only for the sake of their "customer base." I recommend that we take our buying power elsewhere.

Regards
 
Why not vent your anger at the company who makes the knives rather the the dealer who sells the knives?

I'm not taking sides on this subject (although the fact is, I do find the knives very distasteful) but I am wondering why you choose to hold the middleman responsible over others.
 
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German designs may be offensive to some customers
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:rolleyes:

I've been a loyal customer of SMKW for years. If they stocked it that's where I got it. Fast shipping and good prices. Plus I love the Rough Rider knives. Sadly it seems I will be taking my business elsewhere unless they can pull their heads out of their butts on this one. I'm sure they do have a customer base for it. I'd have a customer base for crack if I decided to sell it, that doesn't mean I should. :mad::thumbdn:
 
markksr said:
Why not vent your anger at the company who makes the knives rather the the dealer who sells the knives?

I'm not taking sides on this subject (although the fact is, I do find the knives very distasteful) but I am wondering why you choose to hold the middleman responsible over others.
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Well, it's not about venting anger. In fact, I don't think that, at any point, I've even gotten really steamed about it. It's very strange, but I feel it's beyond anger.

You're right about contacting the maker (Sigma Impex), of course, and I did do that. They didn't respond. There's a small difference, though: They - or at least the people designing their products - definitely buy the message, so I wouldn't expect to convince them to stop pushing it. I once saw an interview with someone who produced skinhead heavy metal. I slapped my head when the interviewer said, "Don't you realize you're sending this message to kids and teenagers?" The guy responded flatly; that was the aim.

In case anyone else wants to check the manufacturer's Web site, it's http://sknives.com/; if you'd rather just go straight to contacting them:
Email: dass@sigmaimpex.com
Phone: 732 248 9696
Address:
Sigma Impex Inc
140 Ethel Road West Suite #S
Pistataway, NJ 08854
 
Fair enough. I am curious to see what comes of this.

I feel that emails to both parties are in order. :thumbup:




Edited to add: Emails sent to both parties involved.
 
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I live close to SMKW, and I don't buy hardly anything there...I can get knives so much cheaper else where..
 
JiantBrane said:
I'd like to recommend against purchasing from Smoky Mountain Knife Works (eknifeworks.com). I've done a lot of business with them, including as a reseller. No more. I'll be brief:

Some knives have historical value of sorts. They have a legitimate place in people's collections, etc., regardless of whatever political or ethical significance they had at one point. WWII-era knives and reproductions thereof, including those bearing swastikas, are included in this class.

I don't think I need to explain the difference between those knives and knives that simply sport swastikas, thereby endorsing bigotry and applauding one of worst stains upon human history. This might include such knives as this and this. These knives have no historical significance.

I suggested that SMKW stop carrying these two particular knives, giving them a somewhat lengthy explanation of why. They replied, explaining that they have "a customer base for those items." They also explained that they do not necessarily follow their customers' beliefs and cited a "no discrimination policy." Finally, they apologized for any offense it may cause me.

I replied, explaining that it wasn't a matter of offending me. I also explained that we can differentiate between doing business with someone whose beliefs are appalling, on one hand, and selling them goods which endorse, spread, advertise, or bolster their beliefs, on the other. For instance, I wouldn't recommend that against selling a bottle of water to someone wearing a swastika-emblazoned sweatshirt. However, it is very different to sell that person another such sweatshirt.

To sell such items is effectively stating, "We understand the customers' beliefs; we understand that these particular items have no function but to advertise, bolster, or spread those beliefs; we are willing to sell those items and make money off of them."

SMKW has not replied and is still selling those items.

I want to be clear about this: I am not claiming they do not have, or even that they should not have, the legal right to sell them. I am also not claiming that people should not have the legal right to buy them. Rather, I am stating that SMKW should choose not to sell them. I am also saying that, if they insist on continuing to sell such items, we should not do business with them: I refuse to do business with a company that tacitly endorses terrible bigotry, even if it is only for the sake of their "customer base." I recommend that we take our buying power elsewhere.

Regards
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So... you want us to boycott a knifeseller because you told them you wanted them to stop selling two knives out of, what, hundreds if not thousands of models, and they said no thanks, we'd rather not do that, and now you're convinced they're all a bunch of Nazi enablers who should be shunned?
 
Sharp Phil said:
So... you want us to boycott a knifeseller because you told them you wanted them to stop selling two knives out of, what, hundreds if not thousands of models, and they said no thanks, we'd rather not do that, and now you're convinced they're all a bunch of Nazi enablers who should be shunned?
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He brought something to the attention of the forum in the appropriate section. Some of us are interested in this information. I would personally prefer not to buy from a dealer that will even indirectly associate themselves with the scum that idolize the Nazi party for a few dollars. Others may be fine with it.
 
THE PUNISHER said:
Hmm, if you found a original hitler youth knife/dagger say at a flea market for $25 would you buy it.
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Interesting question, but completely irrelevant. The knives the OP listed are not historic pieces or even copies of them.

To answer your question though. Yes I would buy it. I would then donate it to a museum. There is a difference between recording history and breeding stupidity
 
What about book sellers that sell copies of, let's say, The Turner Diaries among their catalogs? Do you boycott all those as well?
 
Sharp Phil said:
What about book sellers that sell copies of, let's say, The Turner Diaries among their catalogs? Do you boycott all those as well?
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I'm not certain I know what "The Turner Diaries" is. I did a Google search and it appears to be a book about a racist bombing or some such. I vaguely recall that name being discussed here before. Considering it's a book, I will answer with a tentative no for now. A book, good or bad, is something that can spark discussion and lead to insight of the author and people like them. The above posted knives are there solely to sell to bigots. Regardless, this point is also irrelevant as most of my print books are bought from small dealers online. I don't sit down and read books much, I have DSL.

SMKW is free to sell what they want. I am free to shop where I want. I'd rather support AG Russel or 1SKS than a company that would knowingly disenfrachise a portion of it's loyal customers to make a buck.
 
Wow, that is disgusting. They shouldn't be selling those. Thanks for the post.
 
Thanks for the heads up. Im questionable on my local knife/hobby shop selling historical reproduction pieces, because I know without a doubt that only bigots collect the re-pro crap (seen the neos/skins/rebel flags buy the crap).

I've been seeing this garbage at gun shows for years on the same tables that sell 1800s slave shackles.

To sell a non-reproduction knife with Nazi symbolism on it does indeed fuel a sub-culture of bigots. Not worth turning away customers of high moral standing to sell a $7 piece of junk.

I wont be buying from them again.

Ignore Phil, he just surfs looking for the next argument.
 
Thank God nobody here is using a computer that was made in a country under a political system that has racked up a way higher body count than the Nazis did!



:)
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
Thank God nobody here is using a computer that was made in a country under a political system that has racked up a way higher body count than the Nazis did!



:)
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My computer was made in my living room. :) Though I'll admit some of the parts were made in China. (Keyboard and probably some of the internals.)
 
Sharp Phil said:
So... you want us to boycott a knifeseller because you told them you wanted them to stop selling two knives out of, what, hundreds if not thousands of models, and they said no thanks, we'd rather not do that, and now you're convinced they're all a bunch of Nazi enablers who should be shunned?
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I wouldn't put it that way; in fact, I'm inclined to say, "No." Let's suppose their reasoning takes one of two forms (and ignore the fact that "their" decision is made at a corporate level, rather than, say, through a company vote):
1) "'We're' fine with antisemitism and other various flavors of bigotry. We'll sell these goods and make a lame excuse." In this case, I would go so far as to say that it's morally wrong to support such a business. Not going to bother with the full argument.

2) "'We' don't care for these products personally, but make money off of them. That's a good-enough reason to sell them." All right. They still tacitly support a horrific ideology. It's unfortunate that it comes to this, but let's give them a reason not to.

Should they be shunned? I don't think I've been to any dinner parties in Tennessee, anyway. Irrelevant.

Sharp Phil said:
What about book sellers that sell copies of, let's say, The Turner Diaries among their catalogs? Do you boycott all those as well?
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This is entirely different. Such texts have tremendous value from the point of academic literary study, as well as something like historical importance. In that sense, they're a little more like, say, the "Nazi Youth Dagger" that some people sell. Sure, some bungholes buy those for the wrong reason - in fact, that one's worse - but it's at least possible for someone to wish to purchase one for a decent reason. The two I mention in my first post are a different story; they have no use value or historical value, and no one's fascinated with the metallurgical properties of the pot metal they use in that crap.

Thank God nobody here is using a computer that was made in a country under a political system that has racked up a way higher body count than the Nazis did!
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I'm not going to crunch numbers, because the point has some merit. Now, most of us don't do business directly with the Chinese government, so there's a difference, but we would all do well to find out more about the labor practices, etc., behind a good number of the things we buy.
 
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