Snake identification?

The only real misinformation I see in this thread is that Cottonmouths have neurotoxin (crickets chirping on that one now, huh?) and that if you can get a little bit of venom out, or perhaps more than a little bit, with a Sawyer Extractor that this is somehow a BAD thing. Hahaha! Amazing! And, no one can just come back and say, "Someone else told me it isn't any good." I addressed, specifically, what amounts to an abscess and leakage of same.

I don't really advocate killing poisonous snakes when you are out hiking, camping, fishing, etc., unless it becomes necessary to do so - big difference.

But living in and around them, man, I don't think you can condemn anyone for not wanting them around the house. I understand what you are saying about rodents and that is true, but, still, if your neighbor killed one in his yard, would you call the authorities on him, assuming of course this would be an illegal act? Or would you "dislike" him for doing so?

Because, if so, I have to say, that's a degree of nonsense that I cannot fathom.

They are incredibly dangerous and a survivable bite will leave you without a house unless you have absolutely excellent insurance in some cases - everything else defending them carries the weight of yelling "Tu Madre!" At one another like kids. :)
 
From your previous post:


Anyway, they are not Coral Snakes which have neurotoxin, they are Pit Vipers like Rattlesnakes and they have hemotoxin like Rattlesnakes and Copperheads although the Copperhead has the mildest of them all.

Also, just FYI, if you are in a hospital that regularly deals with a nasty creature like a Cottonmouth, they might not choose to use Anti-Venin but they would probably be hitting you with some serious antibiotics because the mouth of these snakes are absolutely filthy and the infection you can receive from one might give the venom a run for its money.

Venomous snakes like rattlesnakes have mixtures of different toxins in their venom. They are not entirely either "neurotoxic" or "hemotoxic", they have venoms that are blends of toxins. The Mojave rattlesnake has venom that is highly neuorotoxic and is arguably the most toxic rattlesnake in the U.S. However, even the Mojave venom varies throughout its range.

A non-dry bite by a Cottonmouth would almost certainly be treated by using antivenom. The bacteria present in a snake's mouth would be of much less concern than the venom.

Beware of even the medical community when they give you pie-in-the-sky alternatives to using something like the Sawyer. The Sawyer is not "Cut and Suck" like the old Cutter kits, it doesn't have little crappy rubber cups and you don't have to use your mouth. It is a reverse syringe and it is powerful. The only thing you are trying to do is take advantage of that "weeping" I mentioned earlier and you have to do this before the injection site swells shut, you have to do this within a few minutes.

The medical community will not give you any "pie in the sky" alternatives to using the Sawyer Extractor. They will use antivenom to treat a wet bite and will not typically recommend field techniques like the Sawyer Extractor. They will recommend immediate transport to a medical facility.

Arizona Poison Control Center: http://www.pharmacy.arizona.edu/outreach/poison/rattlesnake.php

GB
 
Gerberblades said:
From your previous post:

The medical community will not give you any "pie in the sky" alternatives to using the Sawyer Extractor. They will use antivenom to treat a wet bite and will not typically recommend field techniques like the Sawyer Extractor. They will recommend immediate transport to a medical facility.

GB
Click to expand...

Listen, you're chasing your tail here, understand? When they tell me I have to get to a facility and I'm in the middle of the sticks, they're giving me a "pie in the sky" goddamned alternative.

If I can get to the damned facility, I will, I'd be a fool not to.

Unfortuantely, they don't want anyone using a Sawyer for whatever reason but it sure as hell isn't because they won't do ANY good.

Seriously, I have to ask, are you being stupid or deliberately obtuse? What if you CAN'T get to the damned high and mighty medical facility for hours?

Damn.
 
Don Rearic said:
Listen, you're chasing your tail here, understand? When they tell me I have to get to a facility and I'm in the middle of the sticks, they're giving me a "pie in the sky" goddamned alternative.

If I can get to the damned facility, I will, I'd be a fool not to.

Unfortuantely, they don't want anyone using a Sawyer for whatever reason but it sure as hell isn't because they won't do ANY good.

Seriously, I have to ask, are you being stupid or deliberately obtuse? What if you CAN'T get to the damned high and mighty medical facility for hours?


Damn.
Click to expand...

Don- I'm not doing any of those. I'm trying to inform you that the Sawyer Extractor doesn't work. Heres a good start on understanding why:

Suction for venomous snakebite A study of “mock venom” extraction in a human model.

Annals of Emergency Medicine, Volume 43, Issue 2, Pages 181-186
M. Alberts

You need to stop believing that a $15.00 hand pump will save your life or limb in the event of a serious snake bite.

Seriously, I have to ask, are you being stupid or deliberately obtuse?

No. Just basing my comments on 40 years of herpetological experience.

GB
 
Did you read anything I wrote prior about the creation of an abscess that is envenomation? You see, when you ignore something that is reality, I have to question what you suggest that I read. What I wrote makes sense and simply giving me a link without discussing it is just meaningless to me.

What you and the medical experts are saying is "just die" if you are too far from help or something else happens and you cannot get help in time.

That's not good enough.

Coming from a community that charges 700 grand for snakebite treatment when the fasciotomy was part of what caused most of the damage is just who I want to believe lock, stock and barrel, friend. :)
 
Don Rearic said:
THE SAWYER EXTRACTOR - This continues to be a no-brainer controversy. If you can get MedEvac'd out, do so.

When the snake bites, what it physically makes is an abscessed area, the area of envenomation is a pocket. If you have ever had sutures and had an ER Doc that didn't care how bad he hurt you, you have experienced something similar - the local anesthetic creating a very painful abscessed area until the surrounding tissue absorbs the medication or in the case of a snakebite, the venom.

When you go to the Dentist and you taste the novacaine before you go numb, that is because the Dentist has basically created an abscessed area and the novacaine is leaking back out into your mouth. This "weeping" from an abscessed area created by hypodermic injection can be taken advantage of with the Sawyer. You have to remember, if you get a teaspoon of rattlesnake venom in you and you can get 25% of it back out with a Sawyer, that might be the 25% that KILLED YOU or made the wound much, much worse in any event.

In snake country, carry the Sawyer Extractor where it is immediately accessible and USE IT as soon as you secure your own personal area - kill the snake and/or get away from it.

I'm NOT telling you that you should NOT receive medical treatment, I'm not saying this is so critical if you are on a golf course in Jackson Hole, Wyoming where you can get medical treatment in minutes.

I'm talking about being miles from help.

If you have a reaction like that boy Justin did on that website, he had to take an extraordinary amount of Anti-Venin and had he been a few miles further away from a place where the Helo could pick him up - he might not have made it.

Beware of even the medical community when they give you pie-in-the-sky alternatives to using something like the Sawyer. The Sawyer is not "Cut and Suck" like the old Cutter kits, it doesn't have little crappy rubber cups and you don't have to use your mouth. It is a reverse syringe and it is powerful. The only thing you are trying to do is take advantage of that "weeping" I mentioned earlier and you have to do this before the injection site swells shut, you have to do this within a few minutes.

It could save your life. In some cases, it might just get enough venom out to make the difference, I would not discount it.

I don't believe for a SECOND that you can't get SOME of the venom out with a Sawyer and that little amount could mean the difference between living and dying.
Click to expand...

In case you are having a problem locating it because you can't get your education through the door along with your head. :D
 
I was probably the one that mentioned the wrong information on the Cotton Mouth. But I did point out that this is what was told to me along with the fact that they do not want anyone to try and suck the poison out. I did ask that question and my answer was given by an ER doctor. Now, I was under severe pain killers and it still felt like if an elephant had stepped on my hand. They had to shoot me up with a bit more pain killer again to help with the pain and that is when I went to sleep. The key thing is to stay calm and seek help. Staying calm will help maintain your adrenaline steady. You will need it when trying to get out of your situation.
My opinion is that if you feel that you must get some of the poison out and that will help you cope with the situation. Than go ahead and do so. Just remember that the time that you are spending trying to get the poison out could be used to seek help. The doctors told me that it does not work so I could not answer anything else about this. I am just passing down the information that I was told when I was bitten by a poisonous snake / Water Moccasin.
 
I can tell you right now that in the woods I leave all snakes alone. By the house I will kill all poisonous snakes. I have pets and don't want them around. As for rodents. We'll my dog takes care of that issue. Kills as much as he can catch and leaves them there so I can tell him what a good job he does in the morning. He does like to eat the possums. Sometimes he just leaves the head. Might be a bit to crunchy for his like.
 
Peppe said:
I was probably the one that mentioned the wrong information on the Cotton Mouth. But I did point out that this is what was told to me along with the fact that they do not want anyone to try and suck the poison out.
Click to expand...

In general, they don't want people doing much of anything except direct pressure in the case of arterial hemorrhage. Unfortunately, we need to sometimes delve a little bit deeper if we are in dire circumstances.

Add to that, a lot of doctors, I am sure, still confuse the Sawyer with "Cut and Suck" methods using RUBBER SUCTION CUPS and cutting the ABSCESSED area with the venom in it which can expose healthy tissue to venom.

I'm not talking about that.

I did ask that question and my answer was given by an ER doctor.
Click to expand...

This just doesn't matter to me. Especially in an ER where you most certainly will not receive a valid second opinion on anything.

My opinion is that if you feel that you must get some of the poison out and that will help you cope with the situation. Than go ahead and do so.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question. Species of rattlesnake being the same, would you rather be bitten by a 2 feet long or 5 feet long rattlesnake? I mean, obviously, neither, right? :D But if you had to choose, I'm sure I can answer for you that you would choose the smaller rattlesnake. Why? Well, it's fangs would probably be at least a bit shorter and not being as large of a snake, the venom glands would, again, probably be smaller.

You would receive less venom, again, all other things being equal, right?

Well, what if you get bit by that five footer and you can get a bit of that venom out and it's then like you were bitten by a smaller rattlesnake? Wouldn't that be something you would ... think is a good thing?

That's all I am saying.

"GerberBlades" is trying to figure out a way to build a Strawman Argument against what I am saying and swerving in the direction of saying that I am claiming you should just use a Sawyer and forget about medical treatment.

I have NOT and would NOT say that.

I do know what I posted about abscesses to be a FACT and if you can get some of that venom out, it's just stupid to argue that this is not something that might save you or your limb, etc.

Now, the flip side to this is, let's say you're a bonehead, and I know his name and I am not posting it, but this guy that half cut and half pulled apart his hand at the wrist to get it from under this rock to escape...

If you are in the sticks alone and you are miles from help and you get bitten, this is what the medical community is officially leaving you with as an option - halfassed amputation, assuming you can amputate it - meaning fingers or perhaps a hand like the aforementioned bonehead.

I have to tell you, if I was bitten on the finger, that finger is PROBABLY COMING RIGHT OFF if I am miles away from help. Good enough for Yakuza, good enough for ME. I ain't kidding either. :D

Hell, Clyde Barrow chopped his toe off to get released early. I'd take a toe off to save my life.

I live in the 'burbs and I am 10 miles from the first Shock Trauma Unit in the country, I'm not going to be screwing around, I'm going to ride in a Dauphin Chopper and get treated.

But if I were not in this area...you better believe I'm not going to take some wanker's advice and just walk out slow and possibly die when I could get some of that stuff out.
 
I only know what I have been taught, most recently last October. Without any drama, here is the FDA says, which is what I was taught:

HOW TO TREAT A SNAKE BITE

- Wash the bite with soap and water.
- Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart.
- Get medical help.

"The main thing is to get to a hospital and don't delay," says Hardy. "Most bites don't occur in real isolated situations, so it is feasible to get prompt [medical care]." He describes cases in Arizona where people have caught rattlesnakes for sport and gotten bitten. "They waited until they couldn't stand the pain anymore and finally went to the hospital after the venom had been in there a few hours. But by then, they'd lost an opportunity for [effective treatment]," which increased the odds of long-term complications. Some medical professionals, along with the American Red Cross, cautiously recommend two other measures:

If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. The bandage should not cut off blood flow from a vein or artery. A good rule of thumb is to make the band loose enough that a finger can slip under it.
A suction device may be placed over the bite to help draw venom out of the wound without making cuts. Suction instruments often are included in commercial snakebite kits.

Certain venomous snakebites may be treated without using antivenin. This is usually a judgment call the doctor makes based on the snake's size and other factors, which normally involves close monitoring of patients in a medical facility.

"In some areas, such as desert areas, most rattlesnakes are small and don't have as potent a venom," says Hall. "You might get by with those patients in not using antivenin." But with other snakes, Hall says, antivenin can be a lifesaver. For example, the Eastern diamondback rattlesnake--found in large numbers in the region of Georgia where Hall practices medicine and in other Southern states from the Carolinas to Louisiana--can reach six feet in length and deliver a potent payload of venom. "It's an enormously dangerous bite that requires very aggressive treatment [with antivenin] or the patient will die," Hall says.

TREATMENT DILEMMAS

Because not all snakebites, including those from the same species, are equally dangerous, doctors sometimes face a dilemma over whether or not to administer antivenin. Venomous snakes, even dangerous ones like the Eastern diamondback, don't always release venom when they bite. Other snakes may release too small an amount to pose a hazard.

Another complicating factor is the diverse potency of venom. "Venom can vary within species and even within litter mates--brothers and sisters," says Arizona physician Hardy. For example, he says, a common pit viper in the Southwest, the Mojave rattlesnake, may carry a powerful neurotoxic venom in some areas and a less toxic one in others.

Hall's work in Georgia and Florida shows that factors such as genetic differences among snakes, their age, nutritional status, and the time of year also can affect venom potency. All these variables make it nearly impossible for doctors to characterize a "typical" venomous snakebite. That's why there exists what Hall calls "so much controversy" about snakebite treatment.

The solution, Hall says, lies with the patient. "Truly the only way to look at snakebites is on an individual basis and on the patient's actual reaction to the venom." Basic signs like pain, swelling and bleeding, along with more complicated reactions such as ecchymosis (purple discoloration), necrosis (tissue dies and turns black), low blood pressure, and tingling of lips and tongue give medical professionals clues to the seriousness of bites and what treatment route they should take.

Some experts emphasize that, although antivenin can effectively reverse the effects of venom and save life and limb, there is no guarantee that it can reverse damage already done, such as tissue necrosis. Some patients may later require skin grafts or other treatment. Arizona physician Hardy says the potential for limiting complications is one compelling reason to seek medical treatment as soon as possible after a snakebite.

HOW NOT TO TREAT A SNAKE BITE

Though US medical professionals may not agree on every aspect of what to do for snakebite first aid, they are nearly unanimous in their views of what not to do. Among their recommendations:

- No ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.
- No tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.
- No electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim.
- No incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury.
 
From the New England Journal of Medicine, this suggestive tidbit:

To the Editor: Dr. Gellert makes several errors of fact and gives a controversial opinion in his letter, "Snake-Venom and Insect-Venom Extractors: An Unproved Therapy" (Oct. 29 issue)1. He is correct in stating that the application of suction to snakebites and hymenoptera stings by most devices is worthless, but he is wrong in his blanket condemnation of all such devices. Bornstein et al.2 have demonstrated that a patented device, the Sawyer extractor, which is capable of producing nearly 1 atmosphere of vacuum, is efficacious in removing up to 37 percent of radiolabeled venom in rabbits when applied three minutes . . . [Full Text of this Article]

References
 
Thomas,

Your first post was awesome, this is basically what I have been saying. If you are near help or you can get in a position to be MedEvac'd DO SO! Damn!

But if you CAN'T. You have to do something.

I know I have said in this thread, you have to have the Sawyer Extractor readily accessible, pocket, etc., if you are in snake country. If you get hit, you have to use it RIGHT NOW, as soon as you kill the snake, assuming you can do that safely without getting hit again, etc.

The reason for this is, the tissue will swell shut and make extraction of the venom harder if not totally impossible.

The other stuff I am trying to get across to folks because it might save their lives one day is this, an abscess that has a weak point will weep, just like being injected with a large dose of novacaine - as I stated before. This is fact and not fiction. Likewise, you get one or two fangholes, if you can get that Extractor on there and get pressure on it, you can get some of the matter out.

Your second post seems to agree with this.
 
Gentlebeings, let's all try to remember we're supposed to be talking about snakes here, not about each other.
attachment.php
 
From Don Rearic- Let me ask you a question. Species of rattlesnake being the same, would you rather be bitten by a 2 feet long or 5 feet long rattlesnake? I mean, obviously, neither, right? :D But if you had to choose, I'm sure I can answer for you that you would choose the smaller rattlesnake. Why? Well, it's fangs would probably be at least a bit shorter and not being as large of a snake, the venom glands would, again, probably be smaller.

You would receive less venom, again, all other things being equal, right?

Answer- This will be the only part that I disagree on and it is probably a subject of dispute that will never have the right answer. Many, and I repeat Many doctors and Park Rangers that have been in the field for a long time have told me that you could get more venom from a juvenile snake than a larger one. The reason being is that an adult snake knows that you will not be food and will try to preserve it's venom for prey. They also explain that is why sometimes you can have a dry bite. They stated that a juvenile snake will not hesitate to put out its full venom potential on its strike.
Now I won't say that you are possibly wrong on this one but you could be absulutely right. It will make sense that the adult will recognize that you are not prey and might try to save it's venom for a more useful need. If someone has heard of the same thing please confirm. I got bit by a juvinile snake and one fang was all it took.
 
That's not answering the question I posed, you quoted it and then wrote about yet another facet of this problem.

Now, let me put it one more way and after that, I think I can safely assume this is totally pointless to you: would you rather have a teaspoon of venom in your or a half teaspoon? OR, in the case of a large snake, substitute "teaspoon" with "tablespoon."
 
Ok, if the doctor tells you that it does not work. What is the point about removing half or none. I will not try it. I work in a dangerous environment and everyone has been trained to do what works but if a doctor tells us that something does not work. We will not try it and our job is to safe life’s. So we will use things that work. So removing half a teaspoon instead of a whole teaspoon results in the same thing. Will not work.
Now if the doctor states that it does work than I say go ahead and try to remove what ever you can. That way there is less to worry about. I say this without disrespecting your opinion. I have been taught that failure is failure regardless of how it's measured. Now is there any concrete evidence to show that sucking out poison with what ever methods you utilize work?
 
I will give you a perfect example of old methods to new methods. If you had a gut shot wound years ago and your intestines where hanging out. We were always taught to put them back in. Years later it was changed to not put them back in and just cover them with a sterile wrap. Now half your intestines our out and putting them back in will not work so should there be a point in me focusing on how to get them back in? That will relate to years ago when we were told to suck the poison out. I would have sucked all the poison out. Now being told differently I would not. So I could not really answer your question because I would not try to suck the poison out. You will see the glass half empty and I will see the glass half full.
Do you have a valid point? In your opinion yes and I also believe that I have a valid point so I guess that until there is something proven we will both try our different approaches.
 
I bought my first Extractor about 20 years ago before it was under Sawyer. The initial model was much more expensive than it is today, about $15 in 1985dollars. Development was by herptologists at the University of Arizona. During that time, I've not heard that it is detrimental. Immediate medical attention in the places I go sometimes means a few hours walking, a couple hours driving, and no cell signal. I don't get all the fuss over using something that doesn't hurt, might help, and doesn't impede getting help unless you just sit there and watch it.:confused:ss.
 
More information from a Google search ("snake bite" "sawyer extractor" utility OR effectiveness OR benefit):

There's a lot of confusion about first aid for snakebite. Before you rely on anyone's advice, though, you may find it helpful to read for yourself the results of original research on the subject, and not just a medical journal review article.

Keep in mind, though, that I believe that it was not until 2004 that the first experiments on humans were conducted with snakebite Sawyer's suction cups applied after volunteers were injected with mock venom.

The study confirmed earlier porcine model experiments which showed that the amount of venom removed was negligible. Moreover, there are articles published in medical journals which show that the suction devices exacerbate the wound in actual snakebite victims.

Needless to say, Sawyer Products' consultant, Dr. William W. Forgey, said, "You're not testing it accurately if you're not using the real venom." What Forgery failed to mention was that in 2001 Alberts, et al. did conduct an experiment with real rattlesnake venom on pigs and found that suction was ineffective.

Forgey contends, however, that if the Sawyer's product is used promptly, it will suck out 30% of the venom. However, he is relying on a study which has never been published, let alone in a peer reviewed medical journal. Forgery says that Sawyer Products cannot afford to do its own research. Source: http://tinyurl.com/2yxvrj

Moreover, Bush et al, wrote in the Annals of Emergency Medicine ( 2004;43:187-188) that "in another study, Extractors were applied to 2 human patients immediately after rattlesnake envenomations, and the device was left in place until its cup filled with serosanguinous fluid 5 times, although the authors do not specify the volume(s) of fluid obtained. The concentration of venom was measured in the fluid removed using an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay.[Bronstein AC, Russell FE, Sullivan JB. Negative pressure suction in the field treatment of rattlesnake bite victims [abstract]. Vet Hum Toxicol. 1986;28:485}].

There were no control subjects, and this study has only been published in abstract form. Ironically, this abstract is cited amongst the main supporting evidence for the Extractor.[Gold BS. Snake venom extractors: a valuable first aid tool [letter]. Vet Hum Toxicol. 1993;35:255; Norris RL. A call for snakebite research. Wilderness Environ Med. 2000;11:149-151].

However, a closer review of the results reveals that the concentration of venom in the serosanguinous fluid removed was only about 1/10,000th the concentration of rattlesnake venom.

Based on the best medical evidence, here's what the Red Cross recommends:

From the 2005 First Aid Science Advisory Board Evidence Evaluation Conference, hosted by the American Heart Association and the American Red Cross in Dallas, Texas, January 23–24, 2005.

"Consensus on Science

Although some first aid texts recommend that rescuers must remove venom from a snakebite, a controlled animal study (LOE 6)107 showed no clinical benefit and earlier death in animals with snakebites that were treated with suction compared with animals with snakebites treated without suction. Two subsequent studies (LOE 5108; LOE 6109) showed that the application of suction resulted in the removal of some injected venom, but these reports did not examine clinical outcome. The use of a suction device on rattlesnake envenomation in a porcine model (LOE 6)110 showed no benefit and suggested injury may occur with suction. A simulated snakebite study in human volunteers (LOE 5)111 determined that a suction device recovered virtually no mock venom.

If a snakebite is from an elapid (eg, coral) snake, first aid treatment includes application of pressure immobilization. The landmark article by Sutherland (LOE 6)112 showed that pressure immobilization after elapid snakebites retarded venom uptake in monkeys. In a human study Howarth (LOE 3)113 showed that lymphatic flow and mock venom uptake can be safely reduced by proper application of pressure (40 to 70 mm Hg for upper limbs, 55 to 70 mm Hg for lower limbs) and immobilization and that either alone is insufficient. Pressure bandages should not be applied too tightly because they will restrict blood flow. A recent study in pigs (LOE 6)114 documented improved survival rates with application of moderate pressure and immobilization.

Treatment Recommendation

First aid providers should not apply suction to snakebite envenomation sites.

Properly performed pressure immobilization is recommended for first aid treatment of elapid snakebites. The first aid provider creates this pressure by applying a snug bandage that allows a finger to slip under the bandage.

References

Leopold RS, Huber GS. Ineffectiveness of suction in removing snake venom from open wounds. U S Armed Forces Med J. 1960; 11: 682–685.

Bronstein AC, Russell FE, Sullivan JB. Negative pressure suction in the field treatment of rattlesnake bite victims. Vet Hum Toxicol. 1986; 28: 485

Bronstein A, Russell F, Sullivan J, Egen N, Rumack B. Negative pressure suction in field treatment of rattlesnake bite. Vet Hum Toxicol. 1985; 28: 297.

Bush SP, Hegewald KG, Green SM, Cardwell MD, Hayes WK. Effects of a negative pressure venom extraction device (Extractor) on local tissue injury after artificial rattlesnake envenomation in a porcine model. Wilderness Environ Med. 2000; 11: 180–188.

Alberts MB, Shalit M, LoGalbo F. Suction for venomous snakebite: a study of "mock venom" extraction in a human model. Ann Emerg Med. 2004; 43: 181–186.

Sutherland SK, Coulter AR, Harris RD. Rationalisation of first-aid measures for elapid snakebite. Lancet. 1979; 1: 183–185.

Howarth DM, Southee AE, Whyte IM. Lymphatic flow rates and first-aid in simulated peripheral snake or spider envenomation. Med J Aust. 1994; 161: 695–700.

German BT, Hack JB, Brewer K, Meggs WJ. Pressure-immobilization bandages delay toxicity in a porcine model of eastern coral snake (Micrurus fulvius fulvius) envenomation. Ann Emerg Med. 2005; 45: 603–608.
Source: http://jfas.umin.ac.jp/G2005/Part%2010.doc"
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top