Snark all day

[oXide]

i gotta ask: why 5.7?

a 5.7 pistol run $1000-1200 around here. you could buy nearly any useful pistol for carry for that and even have money left over for ammo

as well, "smart rounds"? what's that? there's darn few options for 5.7 ammo. two civilian factory types (sporting and frangible). if you're mil/leo and can get and afford it, there's an option or two. as well, there's "elite ammo" which does some interesting reloads, and including a controversial brass round (hard to find now). most of those are going to OVER penetrate all kinds of stuff. frangibles in theory won't.

oh, ammo: typically $25 for box of 50. pricey. sometimes $20. if you're lucky, you score half a case for $15/box at a show *cough*

i hear a couple companies should be making sporting rounds soon for $10-15/box, but i haven't seen any yet, and obviously would buy and try if i could nope, don't own a 5.7 pistol. something else 50 rounds. not the PS90.

so, imho, 5.7 is cool and all, but not practical for fun shooting due to cost - but if you can afford it, go for it... for carry? in theory, you're never going to shoot it, so cost isn't a factor... weight?

"stopping power": well, for less cost, and almost as many rounds per mag, a XD[m] pistol in 9mm is going to have some nice punch. very accurate too. wider range of ammo options, including some nasty stuff.

for those where caliber is king (vs rounds) you can also choose less rounds for bigger bullets. 40s. 45s. even so, 12ish at .45 is pretty decent. a 1911 is typically no more than 8 though.

A "smart round" is a new type of round (haven't seen it in less common calibers yet) that is essentially a lead round hollowed out and filled with different sizes of shot, based on which one you buy, and held in by a plastic tip, on impact the plastic tip is broken and the shot is released. The point of it is to prevent over penetration and seriously mess up the insides of whatever you hit. The reason I said that's what I wanted for a 5.7 is I was hoping (praying) that by the time I can get one they would have come out with a smart round in 5.7x28mm. Which is why I wasn't looking at a PS90 for a first rifle (that and it's way up there as well).

The 5.7 is a round I'd never use for CCW. Know your target and beyond...I'd be more concerned about a pass through with that round than 9mm. I agree with the XDm recommendation. Awesome gun, and you'll have another $500-700 to put into ammo.

Take Vickers and Ayoob's classes. Massad Ayoob will give you awesome pistol training on the range and then in the classroom you'll learn how to be able to not use it and walk away alive. Take Appleseed to get you rifle fundamentals nailed down.

I guess I'll go look at the XD[m], and will definitely find those classes.


Hmmmm... May be rethinking the 5.7, but I still REALLY like it.... Back to day dreaming...

 

[1066vik]

there are alternatives to your "smart rounds" -- 30 years ago it was called the Glaser Safety Slug, 15 years ago, "sintered ammo" was the rage, 5 years ago it was the "frangible round" -- all of them do the same thing, and a good modern JHP will do it as well or better in most circumstances for less $$ per round and less wear & tear on the carry piece.

 

[oXide]

Hmm... I knew about hollow points, but the rest I'm looking up as I type...

I think I figured out why the 5.7 appeals to me (aside from looking as sexy as the BK7), it's got the air of controversy and a very (relatively) limited number of people own them.

And how did you get your hands on a P90, Bladite? And which variant?

 

[Lonewolf01]

Hmm... I knew about hollow points, but the rest I'm looking up as I type...

I think I figured out why the 5.7 appeals to me (aside from looking as sexy as the BK7), it's got the air of controversy and a very (relatively) limited number of people own them.

And how did you get your hands on a P90, Bladite? And which variant?

He said PS90. The PS90 is semi-auto with a 16in barrel.

If he had a real P90 I'd want to shoot it

 

[K9-Handler]

if it's going to be below 40, I wear wool socks and a long sleeved shirt over my t-shirt and canvas pants. Below 30 I switch to a heavier bag and a fleece anorak and add a wicking base layer under the pants.

If it's below 40, I'm calling Motel 6 (they leave the light on for me).

there are alternatives to your "smart rounds" -- 30 years ago it was called the Glaser Safety Slug, 15 years ago, "sintered ammo" was the rage, 5 years ago it was the "frangible round" -- all of them do the same thing, and a good modern JHP will do it as well or better in most circumstances for less $$ per round and less wear & tear on the carry piece.

+1 :thumbup: And back in the day the argument was brought up: [prosecuter] "And tell the jury, sir, why is it you felt the need to use a bullet that POISONs the person you decide to shoot?" It was hard enough cramming #9 shot + epoxy into the hollow cavity of a .44 or .45, bit how many shot pellets do you think would fit into a .223 bullet, which is all a 5.7 really is?

it's got the air of controversy and a very (relatively) limited number of people own them.

Now THERE's a reason to pick a weapons system -- it's unpopular!

 

[Chameleonbear]

Ok, you were barely touching yourself with the arc, get them probes in there for a second or two.

Second, I've been tazed twice, both in training, and if anyone pulls a modern probed tazer out on me, I'm gonna shoot your ass with a whole magazine of 45acp. Basically, I'm gonna kill you where you stand, and claim self defense on the grounds that while drooling and laying incapacitated on the floor, you could easily hit me with the coup de grace with any weapon of your choosing.

I do not like being tazed. At all. Be warned.

Moose

THIS!

Don't worry, we would know it worked...

I do NOT want to ever be tased again. When I just hear that sound my booty hole puckers a bit.

 

[Murphnuge]

Oh, I'm an electrician. Getting shocked is part of the territory. Being tazed is something completely different. There is no ampacity, only voltage, and new tazers don't even say how many volts they generate. They say "neuro/muscular incapacitation", which means, you're ass is going to the ground.

That one in the video above, of the cop beating it, is total BS. I've seen guys twice that size, hit the ground, drooling and twitching. That one must have been old, or losing its charge, because I'm telling you, the ones like the X26, sends you to a place no one wants to go.

We talked about this at the last fall Gathering, there were a few of us that "had" to take a shot, and not one of us said they wanted to do it again, quite the contrary, we were all in agreement, pull a taser out, and I'm sheddin' some lead in your direction.

I hate tasers.

Moose

We can't have a taser conversation without Sam.

 

[trailbum]

Buy a Glock
Any caliber would be better. IMO.

 

[worldwood]

Buy a SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD/XDM or S&W M&P or RUGER P345D OVER A GLOCK
Any caliber would be better. IMO.

Fixed that for ya!

 

[K9-Handler]

Glocks = F250

XD/XDM = Saturn

I own both. Just sayin'...

 

[daizee]

If you like shooting a plastic brick then a glock is the perfect choice. No love there. 5.7 is a stupid round in a pistol and a novelty in a subgun. Get something that gives you the option of subsonics at least.

 

[The Warrior]

If you like shooting a plastic brick then a glock is the perfect choice. No love there. 5.7 is a stupid round in a pistol and a novelty in a subgun. Get something that gives you the option of subsonics at least.

But how do you really feel about it though?

 

[K9-Handler]

But how do you really feel about it though?

I think he said he likes shooting bricks...

 

[worldwood]

only glock i ever had was the 27 so i cant speak for the whole line but i have owned all the others i listed and wouldnt even put the glock in the same catagory.

If a glock = f250

Then a S&W, Ruger, or Springfield is a Hummer h1

the glock debate has been here for ages and aint leaving anytime soon. The world is torn, people either love them or hate them. kinda like the clip point vs drop point debate

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I've been really happy with my XD. Feeds whatever type of ammo, no issues whatsoever. Glock and M&P are both great pistols too.

 

[TMHunt]

I don't understand how the whole gun debate gets rekindled here. I always kinda thought most of the poeple here had some intellect to them. Maybe I'm wrong. My point you ask. O.K. I carry a Glock 19. Now let's ask. Is it lightwieght, simple to use under stress, acurrate, high cappacity, snag free for carry, thought of and invented by one smart badass SOB. (Gaston Glock. Goggle him) yes! It is. Can you buy one that matches your fanny pack? NO! I have owned 5 and shot over 10,000 rounds through them. Does it suit me? Yes. Are there other guns that are just as good that suite other poeple for there different shooting styles? Yes. Guns are like cars. It is all personal preferrence. They all get you to work. Witch one is the best will never be proven as long as there is more than one gun manufacturer in the world. You wanna know witch one is the best. Get your ass to the range and decide for yourself! That is all, I'm O.k. now! Had to vent, going to fridge for beer!

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Fully agree with Todd. There are so many guns out there. The best gun is the one that shoots straight and reliably for YOU. Although, it probably can't hurt to go with a popular model (1911, Glock, XD, M&P, Beretta, Sig, etc). Renting guns at the local range is a great way to find out what you like and don't like in a gun.

 

[daizee]

Fully agree with Todd. There are so many guns out there. The best gun is the one that shoots straight and reliably for YOU. Although, it probably can't hurt to go with a popular model (1911, Glock, XD, M&P, Beretta, Sig, etc). Renting guns at the local range is a great way to find out what you like and don't like in a gun.

I agree completely.
Note I was very careful not to malign the glock's functional qualities.
I believe its ergonmics approximate a plastic brick. Was that unclear?

 

[TMHunt]

Fully agree with Todd. Th
ere are so many guns out there. The best gun is the one that shoots straight and reliably for YOU. Although, it probably can't hurt to go with a popular model (1911, Glock, XD, M&P, Beretta, Sig, etc). Renting guns at the local range is a great way to find out what you like and don't like in a gun.

Amen brother! I love and own most of the guns you mention. But if I'm gonna reach for a gun in the middle of the night to protect my family, half asleep, under stress, easy of function, I'm going for my Glock. I'll be pumping lead while some poeple will be fooling with safteys and decocking levers, not something I wanna deal with in a life or death situation. Is it a pretty gun? No. Is it the one I feel is the best option to keep me and my family safe under those conditions? Yes. Do you feel there's something out there better for you to protect your family? Than by all means I wish I could afford to buy it for you. Cause that's what its all about. Keeping our loved ones safe. I love all guns, but some have there place. For me to tell anyone which one is best wouldn't be right. To many factors involved. My beer is empty from the last post. Going for another!

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

No disagreement from me, but many people actually like the Glock's ergos. I can't figure out why though, but to each their own, right?