Snark till the cows come home

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agreed about the PMR-30 being silly.
IF the .22mag produced full velocity from a short barrel it would be rather awesome. But it does NOT because with a possible single exception, those cartridges are loaded with slow-burning rifle powder AND there's a limit to their peak pressure because of the rimfire case. A PMR-30 in 5.7x28 would be a TOTALLY different story because they are loaded with fast-burning powder at higher pressures, but then those cartridges are thicker so you wouldn't get 30 rounds. And FN already makes their own version. And the ammo will be spendy too.

Also, .22WMR is nasty loud for its punch from a pistol, so it's not very utilitarian. Fun? Sure, but expensive to run compared to a .22LR pistol, and all you get is the extra noise with a smidge more velocity. Would I like a .22WMR pistol? Sure, as an interchangeable cylinder with .22LR in a single-action. Or in the Ruger single-six hunter ;)
But realistically? I'd only shoot .22LR in it 'cause I don't shoot anything but paper with handguns.

Just to be clear, I love the .22WMR in a LONG gun. Loved it even more before the price of ammo doubled. Now I don't bother shooting it recreationally (which means at all) because handloading centerfire costs about the same.
 
Chameleonbear said:
It IS snowing here, My mom seems to think that shoveling every 15 minutes is the best thing for it... I don't really agree.


Mom was complaining she was cold. I told her she needs to dress better cause wearing that get up, I was sweating my furry biscuits off!
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Well then... You should walk right up to her, stand tall, look her right in the eye and tell her what any grown ass man would tell his mother!!!!!, "..................Yes Ma'am."



:D
 
zzyzzogeton said:
Right now there are only 4 knives that I'm stalking, all Westerns. Not saying that I wouldn't jump on others if they pop up, but....
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You collect Westerns? I've got one of the W49 Bowies that I've thought about modding a dozen times. But I haven't done anything with it.
 
iwouldhurtafly said:
Well then... You should walk right up to her, stand tall, look her right in the eye and tell her what any grown ass man would tell his mother!!!!!, "..................Yes Ma'am."



:D
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Note the picture! My grown ass out in the snow, shoveling. Mind you, dressed appropriately!
 
iwouldhurtafly said:
Well then... You should walk right up to her, stand tall, look her right in the eye and tell her what any grown ass man would tell his mother!!!!!, "..................Yes Ma'am."
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yeah, that would not be me.
 
Went out to shovel the walks. Still coming down good. About 4-5 inches so far.
 
bigghoss said:
I haven't heard anything bad yet about Walthers but like I said above, most people buy a gun, shoot 100 rounds and it sits and collects dust for six months. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not going to take gun advice from those people. Hickok45 and Nutnfancy shoot a good amount but as far as I know they're not professionals in the industry beyond youtube reviewers. I watch their videos but I take them with a grain of salt.

I don't really get the PMR-30 beyond a range toy. What do I need 30 rounds of .22WMR for other than the joy of shooting 30 rounds really fast? (which is a totally legit reason to buy a gun, don't get me wrong) It's not good for defense because the .22 mag just doesn't have the punch. Sure 30 rounds will stop most threats but no one is going to have time to fire 30 rounds. You're probably only going to get off 3 or 4 shots so might as well go with something a lot more effective. Might be good for population control of nuisance or invasive species of smaller animals I suppose. Or it could just be fun. Perfectly good reason to own anything.
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With regards to the PMR-30, he DID say he was looking for a plinker. I take that to mean something that would be fun to shoot, and let's face it. When someone is shooting off rounds with a PMR-30 at a range, by around round 20, everyone is gonna be watching. For a carry gun, I'd have a very different recommendation.

As far as shooting off lots of rounds, well, I've put about 5000 through my PPQ 40 so far, which is my carry gun. Nary a single malfunction. I've done holster drills, malfunction drills (by loading a snap cap at random points in the middle of my mags), mag swap drills, and run it through 2 tactical courses (1000 rounds per each). Mine was the ONLY gun with no malfunctions in both courses.

As far as .22 ANYTHING not having the punch, well, that's not really accurate. An actual look at the data indicates that for handgun calibers, it takes on average 2 rounds to stop an attacker (around 2.2-2.5 for 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, and 2.6-2.8 for .22LR) based on around 20 years of data from police departments across the country. That's a negligible difference. At the end of the day, the size of the hole is irrelevant. The main issue is shot placement. You shoot someone in the head or heart or other vital organ, it doesn't matter what caliber the bullet happens to be.

And there have been people who have taken 20+ shots with 9mm ammo (the most popular handgun caliber in the US) and kept coming. For that matter, the AR-15/M4/M16 use .22 caliber ammunition. Sure, a .22LR or its more powerful cousin, the .22 WMR don't have the velocity to reach out to hundreds of yards. But then, your average shooter can't even shoot accurately at a hundred yards with a pistol. At the 7-21 feet ranges more common in self-defense situations, the power behind the cartridge doesn't really matter. I think that video that Bladite put up a while ago about that new "exciting" 9mm hollow point ammo is quite telling, considering the damage could be simulated with 2 shots with .22 LR. The guy in the video seemed to think that indicative of non-exciting damage for the 9mm (still plenty powerful, but not revolutionary), but it's also evidence that a .22 LR is plenty good enough for defensive purposes (which is possibly why Mossad seems to think .22LR is plenty good enough for their fieldwork). In fact, the main issue with rimfire ammo for defending oneself isn't the "stopping power" of the round. It's the inherent lower reliability of the ammo relative to centerfire ammo.

IMO, the caliber debate is utterly stupid. Did you know, for instance, that .40 S&W, the most hated of the popular calibers, has a higher one-shot-stop percentage in the real world than the similar 10mm ammo that people seem to think is so much better (and marginally better than 9mm as well). Or that .45 ACP doesn't actually stop people with one shot? There are hundreds of documented cases in which an assailant has survived multiple shots with .45 ACP hollowpoint ammunition (and good stuff, like Speer Gold Dots). The truth is, even in the industry, people have utterly wrong ideas about calibers that are simply not borne out by the data. Shot placement, not size, is the be-all and the end-all.
 
Caliber is irrelevent, speed and accuracy is paramount.

First person to put holes in the other guy(s) wins.

Be it 22lr or 50DE, doesn't matter.

I carry a 45ACP, thats my choice. I have more rounds behind me in that caliber, and the guns I shoot, I shoot them a lot. I can put out fast, accurate fire with them, so, go with what you know.

My back hurts like blazes......

Getting old sucks.......having to work for a living sucks more. I should have been born rich instead of handsome.......

Moose
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
but it's also evidence that a .22 LR is plenty good enough for defensive purposes (which is possibly why Mossad seems to think .22LR is plenty good enough for their fieldwork).
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'neutralizing' unsuspecting 'targets' is a whole different set of requirements from stopping an enraged attacker intent on doing you (or someone nearby) harm. Only the second scenario justifies the civilian use of deadly force.

Agreed, .40SW is a great round by the numbers, but it's miserable to shoot. People who don't shoot regularly would be better off with a caliber that encouraged practice and marksmanship (see aforementioned 'placement'). The same applies to medium-sized .357's, snubbies, and 9mm pocket-pistols.
 
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Jerry D. said:
This almost calls for a thread, "Beckerheads, How do you use your pass?"
This would allow everyone can tell stories about how they use their free BH passes. Be it yelling out their BH number in order to get into a movie for free, getting out of a ticket with a BH patch or cutting in line at Disney World while waving a BK9.
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Now that is a great idea and you could do it with your 1000th post!
 
I use my pass at work all the time. It entitles me to unlimited quizzical looks.
 
daizee said:
'neutralizing' unsuspecting 'targets' is a whole different set of requirements from stopping an enraged attacker intent on doing you (or someone nearby) harm. Only the second scenario justifies the civilian use of deadly force.

Agreed, .40SW is a great round by the numbers, but it's miserable to shoot. People who don't shoot regularly would be better off with a caliber that encouraged practice and marksmanship (see aforementioned 'placement'). The same applies to medium-sized .357's, snubbies, and 9mm pocket-pistols.
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40 cal and Sig .357 and +p rounds wear guns out faster too. They POP quite a bit harder, which puts a lot of pressure wear on the gun and the shooter. I like 9 and 45 personally. Been looking at .380 though for CCW
 
Silverthorn said:
40 cal and Sig .357 and +p rounds wear guns out faster too. They POP quite a bit harder, which puts a lot of pressure wear on the gun and the shooter. I like 9 and 45 personally. Been looking at .380 though for CCW
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Look no further than Walther PK380. The ones I've shot and handles are awesome. Accurate, reliable ( 380 is a coin toss imho), affordable and COMFORTABLE!!!!!

Also, Speer makes a Gold Dot that is pretty damn lethal.....

Moose
 
My Dad torments me with pictures such as this..... Damn, I miss the country.

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The old '53 CJ3B is being put to work as a wood truck. That tiny Jeep with tire-chains is virtually unstoppable back in the woods.
 
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