SNG vs. XM-18 opinions wanted

[RevDevil]

This, except I think the scales need to be more grippy, the knife can fall out of the sweaty hands quite easily.

I have a Strider SMF, it isn't the best slicer...but it will take an epic beating. That's really all I want....never to have to replace or buy another knife for my daily carry.

I would love to get an XM-18 some day but again ..I won't pay the $500+ price tag....for $395 I'd buy it anymore and no thanks. It's just not worth the insane mark up. Dealers mark it up $150-$200. If rick and rob sell it for $395....I imagine it cost MUCH less to make, I think we're getting robbed blind on dealer pricing.

The prices are like anything else in life. You are paying for materials, labor, crafstmanship, etc. Of course the knife costs much less to make that the price tag, painfully obvious really. You would not have have something against the maker and manager getting paid for their work would you? Dealers are also in it to make money, as much as possible. Whats new?

No one is getting robbed. Generally speaking, being robbed is when something is taken from you without your authorization, with or without the use of force. People with disposable income will buy what they want. Are people that choose to buy a Jaguar being robbed because that vehicle costs much more than a Honda?

 

[bearcut]

Ok,

So I am recently diagnosed with a blade addiction. I have several "nicer" folders (benchmade barrage, ZT 0350 etc.) but am looking for one a little nicer. I have used the search function a read up on the strider SNG and Hinderer XM-18. Basically, I can justify only one of the two financially, so my question is whether or not the Hinderer is worth the extra cake. Both seem like very well made and well respected offerings, but since the Hinderer is in more limited production, I'd have to pay a little more through the nose for it.

Opinions appreciated.

What do you plan on using it for?
If you do any hard cutting, bushcraft or lots of rope for example, the wider handle of the XM is preferable. The Sng is much thinner and lighter, better to carry, but harder on your hand in use.

Neither blade is a great slicer.

So, what will you be using it for primarily?

And yes, anything over $500 for an XM is WAY too much. They are not worth the $500-600 people are asking for them.
The manufacturer, Rick, sells them for $400. If they were worth $500 that's what he would price them at. Anything higher price is markup, plain and simple.
It may be worth it to you to pay the extra $100-200 for the opportunity to own one, but it won't make the knife any better than what it already is- a $400 knife.

 

[Folderguy]

I wouldn't complain having either in my pocket, but the XM has better F&F(eventhough all the Striders I've owned were pretty much perfect) and has a higher "coolness" factor for sure.

Can't say as I agree with you on the coolness factor. I think Strider has it all over the Hinderers...

Here's my recently acquired, user SnG:

 

[softrockrenegade]

 

[peter r]

i dont get it, flat grind on striders does not make a better slicer. strider blades are too thick for slicing. the hinderer hollow grind is absolutely awesome for slicing.

 

[Tony8179]

XM-18 everyday and twice on Sunday. I've had multiple Striders and they all went bye-bye. To me, the blade to handle ratio is a bit out of whack and I am not a fan of the flamed Ti and the Tiger Striped blades. Yes, they do sell the Stonewashed versions, but as expensive as Striders are, it's insane to me to pay even more for a Stonewashed finish (on the secondary market). I think Striders are overpriced and I've never owned one that has been good to go out of the bag. Something always has to be fixed on them. I've needed to adjust pivots that took entirely too long to find a sweet spot on, I've had to reprofile the blade of almost every one I've had, the lockup on two of them was a bit wonky with play, blade centering is usually an issue, the fit and finish is not where it should be on a $400 knife, and almost all of them needed a break in period. I'll also just mention that I despise the clips on Stiders. It's not the clip itself, but the placement of the clip. Way too much of that huge end of the handle sticks out of your pocket. Also, because of the linerless G-10 side, the blade stop "thumbstuds" only make contact on the Ti side and don't make contact on the other side at all.

I owned a Gen. 3 3.5" XM-18 flipper for about a year and then I traded it for another knife. Once it was traded I realized that I needed another one. I ended up getting a great deal on an upgraded Gen. 1, but couldn't bring myself to use it so I picked up another Gen. 3 3.5" flipper. Out of the box the blade was sharp and ground evenly on both sides, the pivot was already at the sweet spot where there was no play, but opening was smooth and easy, the blade was centered, the lockup was perfect, the fit and finish is absolutely top notch, the clip placement is fantastic, and because the XM-18 has a full Ti liner under the G-10 slab the thumbstuds that also act as a blade stop contact both sides of the handle.

Now I happened to get pretty good deals on all three XM-18's and I don't think I would pay more than $500 for a Gen. 3 give or take $20. Do I think that they are worth the extra money? Absolutely they are. For the relatively small price difference, I believe that you are getting a higher quality knife that is just about perfect right out of the box (I would suggest a light stropping).

While I have heard that a few guys have had issues contacting Strider and then actually getting some work done to they're knives through their "iron clad warranty", I have also heard from other guys stating that they've sent their knife in with ease and got everything they needed done taken care of. I don't think Strider's warranty is as good as they or some Strider fans say. On the other hand, I've rarely even heard of an issue with an XM-18. The few problems that I have heard of have been handled and taken care of by either Rick himself or Rob without the owners having to jump through hoops to get their knives fixed.

Hinderer XM-18 for the crushing win over Strider.

EDIT: I didn't mention that I've never handled TAD/Strider Dauntless, but I would like to check one out. The Dauntless is not a Strider design though as it is an exclusive TAD design that has been done by many other makers.

 

[5.56]

But is the XM $200 better than the SnG? 50% more cost.

I think that is the OP's question.

Because unless you're LEO/EMT/FD, that's what you're gonna pay.

 

[softrockrenegade]

The xm18 is the same price as the SNG !!!

 

[atony]

XM-18 everyday and twice on Sunday. I've had multiple Striders and they all went bye-bye. To me, the blade to handle ratio is a bit out of whack and I am not a fan of the flamed Ti and the Tiger Striped blades. Yes, they do sell the Stonewashed versions, but as expensive as Striders are, it's insane to me to pay even more for a Stonewashed finish (on the secondary market). I think Striders are overpriced and I've never owned one that has been good to go out of the bag. Something always has to be fixed on them. I've needed to adjust pivots that took entirely too long to find a sweet spot on, I've had to reprofile the blade of almost every one I've had, the lockup on two of them was a bit wonky with play, blade centering is usually an issue, the fit and finish is not where it should be on a $400 knife, and almost all of them needed a break in period. I'll also just mention that I despise the clips on Stiders. It's not the clip itself, but the placement of the clip. Way too much of that huge end of the handle sticks out of your pocket. Also, because of the linerless G-10 side, the blade stop "thumbstuds" only make contact on the Ti side and don't make contact on the other side at all.

I owned a Gen. 3 3.5" XM-18 flipper for about a year and then I traded it for another knife. Once it was traded I realized that I needed another one. I ended up getting a great deal on an upgraded Gen. 1, but couldn't bring myself to use it so I picked up another Gen. 3 3.5" flipper. Out of the box the blade was sharp and ground evenly on both sides, the pivot was already at the sweet spot where there was no play, but opening was smooth and easy, the blade was centered, the lockup was perfect, the fit and finish is absolutely top notch, the clip placement is fantastic, and because the XM-18 has a full Ti liner under the G-10 slab the thumbstuds that also act as a blade stop contact both sides of the handle.

Now I happened to get pretty good deals on all three XM-18's and I don't think I would pay more than $500 for a Gen. 3 give or take $20. Do I think that they are worth the extra money? Absolutely they are. For the relatively small price difference, I believe that you are getting a higher quality knife that is just about perfect right out of the box (I would suggest a light stropping).

While I have heard that a few guys have had issues contacting Strider and then actually getting some work done to they're knives through their "iron clad warranty", I have also heard from other guys stating that they've sent their knife in with ease and got everything they needed done taken care of. I don't think Strider's warranty is as good as they or some Strider fans say. On the other hand, I've rarely even heard of an issue with an XM-18. The few problems that I have heard of have been handled and taken care of by either Rick himself or Rob without the owners having to jump through hoops to get their knives fixed.

Hinderer XM-18 for the crushing win over Strider.

EDIT: I didn't mention that I've never handled TAD/Strider Dauntless, but I would like to check one out. The Dauntless is not a Strider design though as it is an exclusive TAD design that has been done by many other makers.

I completely agree.

I've owned a few XM's, as well as SNG's. I like both knives but their is really no comparison. XM is as good as it gets for a hard use knife.

 

[5.56]

The xm18 is the same price as the SNG !!!

Really guy??

Find me a new one on the exchange for $395.00

I won't hold my breath

 

[Tony8179]

But is the XM $200 better than the SnG? 50% more cost.

I think that is the OP's question.

Because unless you're LEO/EMT/FD, that's what you're gonna pay.

Like I said, I wouldn't pay more than around $500 for a Gen. 3 XM-18. Do I think that the XM-18 is worth $100 more than an SnG? Abso-friggin-lutely I do. I'd pay the extra $100 just to avoid all the headaches I know I'm going to have with the SnG.

 

[LorenzoL]

They are not even in the same league, both as knives and as businesses.
Get a Hinderer and you will be dealing with two great folks, Rick Hinderer and Rob Orlando.
F&F, customer service, blade to handle ratio, steel (CTS-XHP vs. S30V), warranty (you are not allowed to disassemble a Strider, you can do what you want with a Hinderer), resale value... The Hinderer leads in every single aspect.

 

[softrockrenegade]

I Can't speak for what other people are selling or buying them for but both of mine were bought at cost with a little patience and good timing !!!

 

[Bill86]

The prices are like anything else in life. You are paying for materials, labor, crafstmanship, etc. Of course the knife costs much less to make that the price tag, painfully obvious really. You would not have have something against the maker and manager getting paid for their work would you? Dealers are also in it to make money, as much as possible. Whats new?

No one is getting robbed. Generally speaking, being robbed is when something is taken from you without your authorization, with or without the use of force. People with disposable income will buy what they want. Are people that choose to buy a Jaguar being robbed because that vehicle costs much more than a Honda?

Eh...as much as I like the XM-18 I cannot see myself dropping $500-$550 on a pocket knife. My point was if you say "Of course the knife costs much less to make than the price tag"...yep but lets just say dealers get the XM-18 at $275-300 per....do they really need to double that? NO they don't, but they do. Also it's EASY to find Striders on the exchange for $325-375, try finding an XM-18 for that price it'd be snapped up in like 20 seconds. That and I HATE the people on the forums that buy from rob with the $395 price and IMMEDIATELY sell them on the exchange for $550. The whole "getting an XM-18" puts a bad taste in my mouth. Acquiring one of those for a decent price....it shouldn't be that hard.

You're telling me people flipping the generous deals rob gives to unknowing buyers ISN'T robbery....I'm thinking it is. As to your little car analogy, no they aren't but.....Say I buy a jag for $45K or whatever they cost. Say I sell it to a rich guy who doesn't speak English or understand our currency for $60K. Am I robbing him blind....absolutely. Morally what I would be doing is very wrong...does he have it coming YES but it's still robbery.

Maybe robbery is not the absolute correct word, and ripping someone off BIG TIME is. But hey that's too many words to use. I just find it sad people here do that to each other....meh.

What can I say the XM-18 is a great knife, possibly the best I've every handled but the whole experience of getting one.....the worst out there.

 

[Vess]

I Can't speak for what other people are selling or buying them for but both of mine were bought at cost with a little patience and good timing !!!

Lucky you! After looking for nearly 2 months, the best I've seen is $500 shipped CONUS, and since I'm in Canada that becomes $525 minimum, plus brokerage, plus taxes. Bottom line, $600+. Still looking.

Seriously though, for me this is the deciding factor between the SNG and XM18: availability. Given a choice of $450 for the XM-18 or $350 for SNG, I would go for XM-18, no question in my mind. But given a choice of $350 for SNG or $600+ for XM-18, I have to say the SNG is the more reasonable choice. Either knife is more than tough enough for the average user to warrant the "indestructible" label, either one can cut, and while the fit and finish on XM18 is better, is it "double the price" better, especially for someone who intends to use the knife?

Anyway, that's my opinion on it. I only got to handle the XM18 once, and I've been looking for one on and off ever since, but I just can't pay over $500 for one (including shipping, etc.) At $600+ you're in a custom knife territory, you could get a custom for that, with an even superior fit and finish/materials.

EDIT:

And yes, there's many reasons why the XMs are hard to find and why the secondary market prices are the way they are. And I totally understand why people are upset by this. If I was standing in line for 2 years and someone skips ahead by being a firefighter/LEO/military (which is fine and fair and speaks highly of Rick's character), and then immediately turns around and sells it for a neat 40-60% profit, it would tick me off too. That's not the point. The point is we all have to deal with realities of life.

The reality right now is that SNGs are plentiful and readily available for $350-400. XM-18s are rarer and take time to find even at $600, depending on where you are. And while it is indeed impossible to measure a knife's worth relative to another knife, there are limits. You will not find a knife with 420J2 blade and FRN handles selling for $600. It just doesn't happen. In my opinion, $600 for the XM-18 crosses that imaginary line, at least it does for me. I find it hard to justify $600+ for XM-18 when I can get a custom for that much, with even superior materials and at least comparable workmanship. Beyond a certain point, it's just not worth it.

And while the thread asks on the opinion between the SNG and XM-18, I would like to suggest people consider the new Ti Spyderco Military. Look at it. Full Ti handles, RIL mechanism, S30V blade, full flat grind. What's not to like? Is it a tank like the XM-18? No. But will it fall apart if you sneeze at it? Not at all, I've beat the heck out of my old 440V Military with linerless G-10 handle and I still have it today, for my needs it's more than tough enough. Is the fit and finish on it as good? Debatable, but let's say no. Will it matter after you put the knife through the meatgrinder of daily carry for a year or two? Again, no. What does it cost? $200. That's HALF of the SNG, or 1/3 of a second-market rate of the XM-18.

 

[Tony8179]

There's a lot of commentary on different forums about folks buying XM-18's at cost and then turning around and selling them for more. All I can really say is that supply and demand is a concept that has been around for a looooooooooooong time and that it isn't going to change any time soon. I don't agree with it, but I will say that as long as guys are willing to pay $600 for them, then the prices aren't going to go down in the secondary market. Obviously most knife knuts think the price is justifiable because they keep selling at around the $600 mark. I will also say that it is the seller's right to sell his wares at whatever price he wants. While you may not agree with the price and while you may think that they are ripping someone off, someone else is thinking that they can finally get the XM-18 that they've wanted.

The whole idea of whether one knife is worth twice as much as another is all in our heads. There is no way to measure one knife's worth compared to another. It's all in our own personal preferences and it comes down to what someone is willing to pay for what they want. While one person may think that the XM-18 isn't worth the $385 price tag that Rick puts on them, another may think that the XM-18 is worth the $600 that they go for on the secondary market.

I will say that the constant bellyaching and complaining about the prices of the XM-18 isn't going to change anything. To me, it's actually rather annoying. We all know what the prices are and we all know that some guys buy them for $385 and then turn around and sell them for $600. It's just the way it is. If anyone wants that to change, you have to convince EVERYONE to top purchasing them for $600 on the secondary market. Until that happens (and it never will) you can expect to pay the asking prices. You're really just wasting your breath by whining and moaning about the prices. If it's too much, don't buy one and wait for the ZT0550 or the other collaborations that are upcoming between Rick Hinderer and Zero Tolerance.

Here's something you guys can really complain about. Why does the production XM-24 sell for $550 from Rick and you can not find one on the secondary market for less than $950!?

 

[LorenzoL]

There's a lot of commentary on different forums about folks buying XM-18's at cost and then turning around and selling them for more. All I can really say is that supply and demand is a concept that has been around for a looooooooooooong time and that it isn't going to change any time soon. I don't agree with it, but I will say that as long as guys are willing to pay $600 for them, then the prices aren't going to go down in the secondary market. Obviously most knife knuts think the price is justifiable because they keep selling at around the $600 mark. I will also say that it is the seller's right to sell his wares at whatever price he wants. While you may not agree with the price and while you may think that they are ripping someone off, someone else is thinking that they can finally get the XM-18 that they've wanted.

The whole idea of whether one knife is worth twice as much as another is all in our heads. There is no way to measure one knife's worth compared to another. It's all in our own personal preferences and it comes down to what someone is willing to pay for what they want. While one person may think that the XM-18 isn't worth the $385 price tag that Rick puts on them, another may think that the XM-18 is worth the $600 that they go for on the secondary market.

I will say that the constant bellyaching and complaining about the prices of the XM-18 isn't going to change anything. To me, it's actually rather annoying. We all know what the prices are and we all know that some guys buy them for $385 and then turn around and sell them for $600. It's just the way it is. If anyone wants that to change, you have to convince EVERYONE to top purchasing them for $600 on the secondary market. Until that happens (and it never will) you can expect to pay the asking prices. You're really just wasting your breath by whining and moaning about the prices. If it's too much, don't buy one and wait for the ZT0550 or the other collaborations that are upcoming between Rick Hinderer and Zero Tolerance.

Here's something you guys can really complain about. Why does the production XM-24 sell for $550 from Rick and you can not find one on the secondary market for less than $950!?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Josh K]

The XM18 might possibly be the most ergonomic knife ever !!

I completely disagree. Ergos on the SMF / SnG are far better.

i dont get it, flat grind on striders does not make a better slicer. strider blades are too thick for slicing. the hinderer hollow grind is absolutely awesome for slicing.

Again, this is BS. The spanto grind is much worse then the Strider.

I give Strider the edge because of a few things. Simplicity is right up there. The XM-18 is a nice knife, however it's is far over complicated in my opinion. Better summed up in my review of the passaround.

 

[Tony8179]

I completely disagree. Ergos on the SMF / SnG are far better.

Again, this is BS. The spanto grind is much worse then the Strider.

I give Strider the edge because of a few things. Simplicity is right up there. The XM-18 is a nice knife, however it's is far over complicated in my opinion. Better summed up in my review of the passaround.

These are personal preference so calling BS on one's personal preference makes no sense. I happen to think that the XM-18 feels better in the hand than either the SnG or the SMF. As far as the grind goes, well I had a flat ground tanto SnG that couldn't cut anything because the edge was so obtuse. The flat ground drop point SnG's and SMF's probably do make better slicers than the XM-18's Spanto grind... Once you reprofile the edge of the Striders so that they are actually even and cut properly.

 

[cziv]

I think one thing we probably all can agree on is that Strider & Hinderer folders BOTH kick major a*s! I'll give major "props" to a Strider knife and the owner for a great score. I believe they are excellent hard use folders. :thumbup:

I'm of the Hinderer camp 100% and if I could afford to buy a Strider I would still use the money to find another XM-18!

I've bought an XM-18 and gave it to my son and an XM-24 for me - they feel, look, cut and function overall flawlessly. The stand-offs in my XM-24 look like you could use them to support a house's foundation.

To repeat: Would I like a new SMF with all the bells & whistles? Hell yeah, but I can't because that money is earmarked for Rick Hinderer!