SNG vs. XM-18 opinions wanted

[Kaizen1]

I rotate between an XM-18 and an SnG daily (I know, horrible pic):

The quality control on the XM-18 is noticeably better IMO, but for whatever reason, it doesn't affect how much I like the SnG. At first, I didn't like the ergos of the SnG, but after a week, it began to feel really comfortable in hand. If you have to do extended slicing through cardboard, neither of these 2 knives would really be an ideal choice. Whether you agree or not that their added features to handle more tip and lateral stresses are worth anything is a personal matter. I also carry a thin slip joint for slicing. Overall, I'd really hate to have to pick between the two. I haven't sold them off so I clearly think they're worth what I paid.

Customer service has been kinda spotty with Strider according to forums posts, but my experience thus far has been very positive. And on the flip side, Hinderer Knives has had a relatively consistent CS record and the one time I attempted to contact him, I didn't get a response. With so much positive posts about his CS however, I wouldn't let me one attempt be a deciding factor. I've missed or forgotten to respond to a lot of emails and I can only imagine how many Rick has to deal with.

 

[Kaizen1]

This is all very interesting.

At the recent Chicago Knife Expo, I spoke with Josh, from Strider Knives, and mentioned how tight the blades were, every single one of them. I'm referring to the customs... He told me they would loosen up with use. He probably meant hard use. He said that for a while they sold them a bit looser, but went back to tighter, as they didn't want the knives opening up unexpectedly in someone's pocket. That's what he said. I can understand in a combat situation how that could be a problem.

That said, my SnG is super smooth. It might well be that the prior owner, who is himself a maker of custom knives, took it apart and polished it in all the right places to make it fantastic. Whatever... mine's great.

Folderguy

Though the quality of my XM-18 is better, the detent on my SnG is much more effective. Definitely a plus in my book.

 

[misterjuiceman]

Though the quality of my XM-18 is better, the detent on my SnG is much more effective. Definitely a plus in my book.

Yeah, I have to admit the detent on all of the XM-18s that I've owned has been fairly loose. Not loose enough to cause problems with it accidentally coming open though, but loose enough that you can slam the knife downward in a reverse grip and open it (which is pretty fun, too).

 

[LorenzoL]

I agree that the detent on the Hinderers could be a bit stronger, especially on the flippers.

 

[Vess]

Yeah, I have to admit the detent on all of the XM-18s that I've owned has been fairly loose. Not loose enough to cause problems with it accidentally coming open though, but loose enough that you can slam the knife downward in a reverse grip and open it (which is pretty fun, too).

This brings up an interesting point: what is good for one user may be very, very bad for another user.

Take me, for example, I'm in Canada. Here's a quick primer on Canadian knife laws: any knife that can be flicked open in the manner you describe gets labeled by our beloved Customs as a "gravity knife" because it opens by "centrifugal force" and is therefore illegal. You also theoretically go from "there's a tool in my pocket" to "concealed carry of a prohibited weapon", which under certain condition could cause you untold amount of grief.

Under these conditions, a strong detent is far, far more important than the smooth opening. The Striders I carry, and by now I've carried three sizes ranging from PT (which I absolutely adore, cute tough little bugger) to SMF, I keep fairly tight on purpose. The pivot tension is set to "I can open it but I sure as heck can't flick it open" setting.

So a glassy smooth-opening knife such as the CRK Umnumzaan had better come with a decent detent to keep the knife from swinging open if you as much as flinch, otherwise it really can't be safely/legally carried around here. In this respect, Striders are actually quite perfect because with the massive pivot you can adjust the blade as needed. The only knife so far that I felt works even better is the ZT0300 series - the pivot on that one being a foolproof nut and bolt configuration really rocks and practically impossible to strip and a breeze to adjust.

 

[misterjuiceman]

I agree that the detent on the Hinderers could be a bit stronger, especially on the flippers.

yep, that's actually where I'd think the detent is a problem. I don't really consider the XM-18 as a flipper, more of a knife with an option for a finger guard, which can be used to flip open the knife. I think without a stronger detent, it can't really be considered a decent flipper. I think it's a great knife as a regular folder though, and I wouldn't hesitate to get the flipper version, but flipping it open wouldn't be my primary mode of deployment.

I'd say if you're looking for a knife that will primarily be flipped, in the same price range as the SNG/XM-18, go with Galyean Pro-Series knives or Todd Begg's MIG.

This brings up an interesting point: what is good for one user may be very, very bad for another user.

Take me, for example, I'm in Canada. Here's a quick primer on Canadian knife laws: any knife that can be flicked open in the manner you describe gets labeled by our beloved Customs as a "gravity knife" because it opens by "centrifugal force" and is therefore illegal. You also theoretically go from "there's a tool in my pocket" to "concealed carry of a prohibited weapon", which under certain condition could cause you untold amount of grief.

Under these conditions, a strong detent is far, far more important than the smooth opening. The Striders I carry, and by now I've carried three sizes ranging from PT (which I absolutely adore, cute tough little bugger) to SMF, I keep fairly tight on purpose. The pivot tension is set to "I can open it but I sure as heck can't flick it open" setting.

So a glassy smooth-opening knife such as the CRK Umnumzaan had better come with a decent detent to keep the knife from swinging open if you as much as flinch, otherwise it really can't be safely/legally carried around here. In this respect, Striders are actually quite perfect because with the massive pivot you can adjust the blade as needed. The only knife so far that I felt works even better is the ZT0300 series - the pivot on that one being a foolproof nut and bolt configuration really rocks and practically impossible to strip and a breeze to adjust.

Yeah, for the non-flipper version, that's the only reason I'd have a problem with the detent on the XM-18. It definitely could be considered a gravity knife by some. The Umnum has a very good detent, so don't worry about that. The XM-18 probably has the loosest detent that I've experienced in a liner lock. Like I've said, though, I love the XM-18 and Hinderer and co.

edit: meant to say in a liner/frame lock in the last line.

 

[Kaizen1]

yep, that's actually where I'd think the detent is a problem. I don't really consider the XM-18 as a flipper, more of a knife with an option for a finger guard, which can be used to flip open the knife. I think without a stronger detent, it can't really be considered a decent flipper. I think it's a great knife as a regular folder though, and I wouldn't hesitate to get the flipper version, but flipping it open wouldn't be my primary mode of deployment.

I'd say if you're looking for a knife that will primarily be flipped, in the same price range as the SNG/XM-18, go with Galyean Pro-Series knives or Todd Begg's MIG.



Yeah, for the non-flipper version, that's the only reason I'd have a problem with the detent on the XM-18. It definitely could be considered a gravity knife by some. The Umnum has a very good detent, so don't worry about that. The XM-18 probably has the loosest detent that I've experienced in a liner lock. Like I've said, though, I love the XM-18 and Hinderer and co.

I've owned both the flipper and the non-flipper version and they seem about equal to me. I think the "issue" is with the weight of the blade. People who like the XM-18 tend to want an uber-thick blade and a smooth opening, which I think necessarily makes for a not-so-great detent. The detent however on my XM-18s have never caused an accidental opening, so I really can't complain. I do see it as a negative for places that are overly concerned with the "gravity knife" definitions. Hey, you can't win 'em all. Rick has an insane amount of demand for his knives and a tremendous level of exposure with the knife community in general. Someone's bound to not prefer some or all of the features on it.

 

[5.56]

I still prefer the SnG over the XM in general cutting tasks. I would also feel better beating on an SnG even though the XM can take it too. The XM is better knife in fit and finish and attention to detail. It's also more expensive for me to replace.

 

[gundude73]

man thats a nice shot, congrats on the xm

 

[tundratrader]

The striders do have the best pocket clips. I love how tight they are. I dont know why you wouldnt consider the XM flipper to be a flipper. It does not have IKBS but mine are very fast and smooth. Mine also improved after the first cleaning with CRK grease. I think the teflon washers contribute to how smooth it opens. I though about trying a teflon washer on the G10 side of my last SNG. Has anyone experimented with this. I know bronze washers are thought to be more durable but the paper thin teflon has held up well for me. I would be interested in the results of teflon installed on a Strider knife.

 

[misterjuiceman]

The striders do have the best pocket clips. I love how tight they are. I dont know why you wouldnt consider the XM flipper to be a flipper. It does not have IKBS but mine are very fast and smooth. Mine also improved after the first cleaning with CRK grease. I think the teflon washers contribute to how smooth it opens. I though about trying a teflon washer on the G10 side of my last SNG. Has anyone experimented with this. I know bronze washers are thought to be more durable but the paper thin teflon has held up well for me. I would be interested in the results of teflon installed on a Strider knife.

I believe the XM-18 has teflon which seems to be very smooth. Tom Mayo also uses teflon and his knives seem to be pretty durable. I've handled plenty of PB washer knives that are extremely smooth though. My Umnum proto is extremely smooth, and that has PB washers. The Scott Cook Lochsa feels like it's on glass.

 

[tundratrader]

I forgot that CRK is also using those new PB washers with the spaces for grease.

 

[misterjuiceman]

I forgot that CRK is also using those new PB washers with the spaces for grease.

yep, the production Umnum has always had it, and they've phased it in for the large Sebenza, and I think they've started with the small. I'm not sure if the Umnum proto has it, probably.

 

[atony]

You guys crack me up, Hinderer this Strider that.

 

[5.56]

You guys crack me up, Hinderer this Strider that.

Well Strider vs. Sebenza is played out, we are moving on to Hinderer now.

 

[Folderguy]

The striders do have the best pocket clips. I love how tight they are. I dont know why you wouldnt consider the XM flipper to be a flipper. It does not have IKBS but mine are very fast and smooth. Mine also improved after the first cleaning with CRK grease. I think the teflon washers contribute to how smooth it opens. I though about trying a teflon washer on the G10 side of my last SNG. Has anyone experimented with this. I know bronze washers are thought to be more durable but the paper thin teflon has held up well for me. I would be interested in the results of teflon installed on a Strider knife.

Something you might wish to consider before switching the washers. Try some Slick 50 One Lube. That stuff has teflon in it, and it works great. My favorite lube, bar none.

 

[fernando]

I love the basic design, but with Striders....the big flaw is no Ti liner under the g-10 side. That (and poor over/under tightening of the pivot screw) is the culprit of most instances of blade play/ sticky action. Get the XM or start looking at customs, which IMHO is where you actually REALLY get your money's worth and can finally relax your knife searching muscles.

Although I think my Strider has great ergo's, Mac's point is right on the money. If Strider's have a weakness, it could be the lack of a titanium liner to bolster the non-titanium handle side. When the blade-stops (which people often call thumbstuds for some reason) make contact with the frame, it seems like there is potential for some wear and give on the G-10/CF/etc side. I worry about my Strider being weak in that direction, leading to blade play down the road. I wonder if there is a big difference in the material used in the handle: in other words, would CF scales be more resistant to wear and blade-play over time versus G-10? Or maybe vice versa?

IMO, I rank the Lochsa as the best folding knife out there, followed by the Sebenza for cutting duties, and the SNG/SMF as folding "tactical" knives.

 

[bearcut]

So, has the OP decided on a knife yet?

 

[misterjuiceman]

Although I think my Strider has great ergo's, Mac's point is right on the money. If Strider's have a weakness, it could be the lack of a titanium liner to bolster the non-titanium handle side. When the blade-stops (which people often call thumbstuds for some reason) make contact with the frame, it seems like there is potential for some wear and give on the G-10/CF/etc side. I worry about my Strider being weak in that direction, leading to blade play down the road. I wonder if there is a big difference in the material used in the handle: in other words, would CF scales be more resistant to wear and blade-play over time versus G-10? Or maybe vice versa?

IMO, I rank the Lochsa as the best folding knife out there, followed by the Sebenza for cutting duties, and the SNG/SMF as folding "tactical" knives.

I don't think the blade-stops contact the G10 side. as far as I know it only contacts the titanium side.

 

[MiG Angel]

The thing that bugs me most of the Striders isn't the crap customer service or ass for an owner. It's the damned sharpening choil in front of the finger choil. Take it off and I'll be good. I think it would even be a good compromise between a good slicer like a Spyderco and a overbuilt folder like an XM.

Also any knife with a hole in the blade is inherently weaker than another without it. I've seen so many breaks of Striders partly because people see the thick stock and think they could baton things with their folding knife.