Snobbery & does "Handmade" belong

Heeeeyyyyyy, I work for Hyundai as a Quality Control Test Track Driver :( I'd rather drive a Ferrari too :D We get to drive some high end cars that we refer to as "benchmark vehicles" to calibrate our Acceptable Quality Levels. :D

I can't believe you cracked on Hyundai sheesh :( We done worked so hard and our Santa Fes got 2nd in JD powers this year. :cool:

:o Actually, Hyundia's a fine car and offers a LOT for the $$, but still if someone hands you a stack of Hyundia photos and Ferrari photos which ones are you going top look at? ;)
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Custom knives can be handmade, but handmade knives don't have to be custom. It is hard to define what constitutes a custom knife, because there is a lot of disagreement within the knife community. However, what most agree on is that a custom knife can't be made in a factory by a multitude of different people. A handmade knife can be made that way. Take Randall as an example. They are made by what most people consider to handmade production. No, they aren't made without the use of power tools, but then neither are most custom knives. Ruana knives are also made by hand, but are not considered to be customs.

I don't really want to get into trying to define custom, handmade and benchmade. That has been done to death in the past and hasn't lead to definitions that everyone agrees on. What I think everyone here knows is that there are handmade knives that aren't considered to be customs by the majority of people that take part in this forum. Should the discussion of those knives be allowed in the Custom & Handmade Knives forum?
 
Kevin, I know, just pulling your chain. Depends on who's driving the car :D I'd much rather look at a picture of a hot chick in a Hyundai than me in a Ferrari ;)
 
Kevin, I'm not trying to get into the definition of handmade versus custom. What I am saying is that quite often people post threads about handmade knives that aren't considered to be customs, and those threads are moved to other sub-forums. If we are going to allow the discussion of all handmade knives, why bother having handmade as part of the forum title?

I agree that there is discussion of makers of lower priced customs and the knives they produce, but those threads don't often attract much attention. I understand that for many of us it is more interesting to see the top end knives and to discuss the makers of those knives.
 
keith, would you mind posting a link to the thread you are referring to? thanks!

hans
 
I think someone needs to help me with definitions. To me, a custom knife is made to order for a specific customer; and the customer and craftsman work together to make the exact knife the customer desires. I base this on the definition "made specifically for individual customers". By this definition, many of the blades on this forum are not custom-made.

I do admit I visit this forum to see high-end work (not necessarily custom work). It is inspiring, and something I don't get to see often.

Should we just call the forum "High-End Knives"? Probably not.

Phillip
 
I think you are putting way too much into the title of the subforum Keith :

What I am saying is that quite often people post threads about handmade knives that aren't considered to be customs

Does the forum title mean knives have to be both " Handmade & Custom " or does it mean " Handmade Knives and Custom Knives " ~ meaning they could be either ?
I don't read the title as meaning knives must meet both criteria to be posted here.

Another subforum is called " Traditional Folders & Fixed Blades " to me that means Traditional Folders and Traditional Fixed Blades are both welcome . , it certainly doesn't mean it is a forum for knives that are folders and a fixed blade at the same time , as there would be no posts :)
 
I am not a snob, and this is the only forum that I participate in actively, because I enjoy interacting with the other people that participate in this forum.
That's all there is to it for me. If all the current guys and girl were to step away right now, then I probably would too. Not that I tend to follow the flock, but I value positive interaction with acquaintances, whom I've taken time to get to know, over trying to be everyone's best friend in the internets.
Whatever, someone wants into the club- come on in. It takes time, but I've found it to be worthwhile. It can be a little cold in here, without any kool aid slurping love fests ,(usually;)) but I like that about it. It's maybe a little more academic and artsy fartsy than most knife forums, but we need a place too!
 
Snobbery? No. Sounds more like someone with a big chip on their shoulder.

"Handmade" is an utterly meaningless term to me - unless the knife is made from putty it was not made "by hand" - tools of some kind were used. And as Kevin pointed out, the definition thing has been beaten to death.

Roger

PS - The Genesis is an AWESOME automobile.
 
I think as a whole, the knife community has been jaded by what they see in the magazines and on the net. By that I mean that the knives that receive the exposure are generally only the "cream of the crop" from the top makers. After being in this vocation for as long as I have, I can say without any doubt that even the top makers in the world do not make their living(s) off the "high end" pieces. We each have our "bread-n-butter" type knives, and without those we would likely not be full time makers for long.

As far as "snobbery" in the knife world, I don't really think that saying some are that way is a fair statement. Its all a matter of personal tastes in knives.

This reminds me of a situation that occurred years ago with me..... I had just procured my first Little Giant Power hammer, and was told by an individual, who was one of the top forged blade makers, that I wasn't staying true to Bladesmithing if I was using a power hammer. My reply was that if the individual had a power hammer, he would be using it too. Not long after the individual did acquire a power hammer, and now will be the first to tell you that he would not be without it.

Same thing with knives......Those who can afford to, and do own the higher end customs will often not give a low to mid priced knife a second glance. Its not being a "snob", its simply a human condition for an individual's tastes to become more sophisticated as they are exposed and/or become experienced with higher levels of quality, fit, and finish.

I don't mean this rudely, but the term "snob" in the knife world is often uttered in reference to a knifemaker by someone who is either unwilling, or unable to achieve a higher level of quality. If spoken in reference to a Knife Buyer, its generally from an individual who wants those higher end knives, but cannot afford them, or is unwilling to make any sacrifices necessary to acquire those types of pieces.
Not long ago, I was labeled as a "snob" on another forum where I had worked with the site owner to establish a Bladesmithing forum on the site, as well as a weekly knife chat session. Those who applied that label to me created very basic knives, with serious fit and finish issues... when asked, I offered advice and input as to how those makers could improve their work, without being rude or condescending. They were happy in their ignorance, and had no desire for constructive input....all they wanted was someone to stroke their egos, and when I did not do that, I became a "snob". I no longer visit or participate on that site...I have better things to do that try to help those who don't want it.

People are going to be people....all different levels, both of Makers and Buyers....and there is room for all of them.
 
"Custom VS handmade"

how can a custom NOT be handmade???????

all customs are handmade, otherwise they would be production blades.

yes tools are used to make knives. You hold the tools in your hand, therefore HANDMADE.
 
Kevin, I know, just pulling your chain. Depends on who's driving the car :D I'd much rather look at a picture of a hot chick in a Hyundai than me in a Ferrari ;)

I agree. :eek:
Test Car Driver; Now that's a job.
:thumbup:

Kevin, I'm not trying to get into the definition of handmade versus custom. What I am saying is that quite often people post threads about handmade knives that aren't considered to be customs, and those threads are moved to other sub-forums. If we are going to allow the discussion of all handmade knives, why bother having handmade as part of the forum title?
You make a good point, however neither "custom" or "handmade" seems to be an absolute definition for the particular type knives we address here on this forum.

I agree that there is discussion of makers of lower priced customs and the knives they produce, but those threads don't often attract much attention. I understand that for many of us it is more interesting to see the top end knives and to discuss the makers of those knives.

It's just human nature/behavior. The grandest of anything is most always going to demand the most attention.
 
Going back to what others have said... the snobbery is felt by people that got their feelings hurt and are unable or unwilling to change or prove that they're right.

I'm going back to the umpiring example. Umpires at the lower levels always complain about the "big dawgs" and "politics" of umpiring. Very few of them are willing to accept that they're at fault in some way. In the last rec ball association I worked with we were conducing our "work days" for new umpires. They call games while being evaluated by the crew chiefs. I was working with a young umpire just promoted to big boy ball (90' diamond) I was explaining how he needed to improve his mechanics and his signals. He asked me if he was ready for college baseball. I told him he needed to work on his safe call before he worried about college ball. Heard through the grapevine that "I big dawged him and wouldn't help him."

Something similar probably happened here. Someone posted their work or their pappy's ancient Buck 110 and now this is a snob's forum.

Kevin, it's a neat job for about 2 weeks. I guess it's like racing cars or something. It's neat for a couple of weeks and then it's a job. Granted it's a pretty cool job (especially in the rain or other bad weather) but it's not like I can just do what I want, we have a process and I have to follow it. Rarely do I get to do donuts and it's usually because of the weather ;)
 
I think the problem is that most of us here dont subscribe to the whole "love fest" that goes on in every other knife forum on the net. If you post a knife here you are going to get honest opinions, not just 1000 posts kissing the makers/owners ass. I for one think this is a wonderful thing.

Honesty does not equal snobbery.
 
I think the problem is that most of us here dont subscribe to the whole "love fest" that goes on in every other knife forum on the net. If you post a knife here you are going to get honest opinions, not just 1000 posts kissing the makers/owners ass. I for one think this is a wonderful thing.

Honesty does not equal snobbery.

I don't know how we compare to other forums as I rarely visit other than this and the CKCA, however I believe we have our share of the "love fest" thing going on at times.
 
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I like firebert's comment "custom" meaning taylor-made in some aspect, to a customer, or to a purpose.

My interpretation: Modern custom, meaning "stylized", a look of individuality.
Handmade, meaning "made (crafted) by the skill of the hand" not machine guided, as in case of CNC parts.

On Snobbery:

I was listening to local radio last night and there was a local "world famous" opera singer being interviewed. As i listened, he went through his entire resume', carefully weaving how important he was, by naming nearly everyone he has ever been associated with, and places he had performed. Even managed to point out he had 2 celebrity friends. The most obvious self promotion i had ever heard. A Snob sort of attitude. a "diva".

I think Jerry Fisk is dangerously close to being this, (in case) he is listening. He didn't show up for his own birthday party!!! here.

Lorien is a Snob too. And, i am. We are ALL snobs, probably. But, we can't sing opera, most of us. Which is good, this would be a lovefest of a different kind. And Coop would have the pictures of this too. Or DDD, the new book!
David

PS: Will Leavitt, great umpire story!
 
..And Roger, ,..how could i forget Roger. He's a Snob. (But a handsome one). We must admit these things. ;) :)
David
 
Kevin, I'm not trying to get into the definition of handmade versus custom. What I am saying is that quite often people post threads about handmade knives that aren't considered to be customs, and those threads are moved to other sub-forums. If we are going to allow the discussion of all handmade knives, why bother having handmade as part of the forum title?

I agree that there is discussion of makers of lower priced customs and the knives they produce, but those threads don't often attract much attention. I understand that for many of us it is more interesting to see the top end knives and to discuss the makers of those knives.
I was just going to say that NOT all handmade knives are custom knives. I think that anything that isn't custom should go to what ever appropriate section.

I think we discuss all kinds of custom knives here, with a variety of price ranges.
 
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