Snobbery & does "Handmade" belong

2knife said:
..And Roger, ,..how could i forget Roger. He's a Snob. (But a handsome one). We must admit these things. ;) :)
David
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I take great offence to your posts, sir. How dare you say that Roger is handsome and I am not? We are both Canadians, did you not know that? We as a people take great pride in our handsomeness. I challenge you to a duel!
 
ok, this is going to sound really snobby, but there is a fairly high baseline intelligence on this forum.
So many other places I've visited on the internet have a preponderance of ignorant blowhards spouting off about this of that.
This forum is different, in that there is a preponderance of intelligent blowhards spouting off about this or that.
:)
Birds of a feather.
 
Lorien said:
I challenge you to a duel!
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Lorien said:
ok, this is going to sound really snobby, but there is a fairly high baseline intelligence on this forum.
So many other places I've visited on the internet have a preponderance of ignorant blowhards spouting off about this of that.
This forum is different, in that there is a preponderance of intelligent blowhards spouting off about this or that.
:)
Birds of a feather.
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How dare you compare this place to other forums!!! THIS IS BLADEFORUMS!! :):thumbup:

I challenge you to a duel.... :D:D

Just rib'n ya! this place ROCKS !!

TA




.
 
i think if a knife is handmade or a custom really don't matter if the guy buying ,likes it and in his eyes it is worth the money.
 
With all due respect to people who care about such things, for me it doesn't matter.

Call it custom, call it handmade, call it folksy art, call it craft, but if I like it I buy it!

There are only two kinds of knives: "knives I like" and "knives I don't like".

Kind regards,

Jos
 
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Jos said:
With all due respect to people who care about such things, for me it doesn't matter.

Call it custom, call it handmade, call it folksy art, call it craft, but if I like it I buy it!

There are only two kinds of knives: "knives I like" and "knives I don't like".

Kind regards,

Jos
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dido




.
 
Hi Keith,

The custom and handmade question has been debated to death I think. Maybe instead of handmade we should consider knives sole authorship or not. Something like a Randall is more a semi-production piece. You may be able to ask for certain specs but it's more of an assembly line product than what you get from most of the knives we see in this forum.

Ruana, AFAIK, made all his knives himself so I'm a bit perplexed as to why his work would not be welcomed here. At any rate, we need to rely on our moderators to determine what's appropriate so I don't see a need to change the forum title.
 
Ed Caffrey said:
I think as a whole, the knife community has been jaded by what they see in the magazines and on the net. By that I mean that the knives that receive the exposure are generally only the "cream of the crop" from the top makers. After being in this vocation for as long as I have, I can say without any doubt that even the top makers in the world do not make their living(s) off the "high end" pieces. We each have our "bread-n-butter" type knives, and without those we would likely not be full time makers for long.

As far as "snobbery" in the knife world, I don't really think that saying some are that way is a fair statement. Its all a matter of personal tastes in knives.

This reminds me of a situation that occurred years ago with me..... I had just procured my first Little Giant Power hammer, and was told by an individual, who was one of the top forged blade makers, that I wasn't staying true to Bladesmithing if I was using a power hammer. My reply was that if the individual had a power hammer, he would be using it too. Not long after the individual did acquire a power hammer, and now will be the first to tell you that he would not be without it.

Same thing with knives......Those who can afford to, and do own the higher end customs will often not give a low to mid priced knife a second glance. Its not being a "snob", its simply a human condition for an individual's tastes to become more sophisticated as they are exposed and/or become experienced with higher levels of quality, fit, and finish.

I don't mean this rudely, but the term "snob" in the knife world is often uttered in reference to a knifemaker by someone who is either unwilling, or unable to achieve a higher level of quality. If spoken in reference to a Knife Buyer, its generally from an individual who wants those higher end knives, but cannot afford them, or is unwilling to make any sacrifices necessary to acquire those types of pieces.
Not long ago, I was labeled as a "snob" on another forum where I had worked with the site owner to establish a Bladesmithing forum on the site, as well as a weekly knife chat session. Those who applied that label to me created very basic knives, with serious fit and finish issues... when asked, I offered advice and input as to how those makers could improve their work, without being rude or condescending. They were happy in their ignorance, and had no desire for constructive input....all they wanted was someone to stroke their egos, and when I did not do that, I became a "snob". I no longer visit or participate on that site...I have better things to do that try to help those who don't want it.

People are going to be people....all different levels, both of Makers and Buyers....and there is room for all of them.
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That is ironic, Ed, because your subforum on that site and your DVD's were my starting point in developing this massive case of anxiety about the fit and finish of my knives...lol.:D I skipped over the entire part where you are supposed to sell your early, ugly stuff for real cheap because most of those knives went into the local landfill. I don't blame you totally, though. These lunatics in here made it worse.;) But seriously. I don't think that I would call the folks in here "snobs" but you do come to this forum understanding that the expectations in here are a bit higher than in say the "teaching" forums like Shop Talk. This is a different crowd, but they are not mean..........well, maybe everyone except STeven.:D
 
Jose Reyes said:
Hi Keith,

Ruana, AFAIK, made all his knives himself so I'm a bit perplexed as to why his work would not be welcomed here. At any rate, we need to rely on our moderators to determine what's appropriate so I don't see a need to change the forum title.
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Up until a point, Rudy did, but now it is the Hangas family working out there, and there are at least 3 of them working on them. Current Ruana knives would be more akin to Randalls, CRK, or, to some degree William-Henry, in that they ARE hand made, but we might not be sure by which hands.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Up until a point, Rudy did, but now it is the Hangas family working out there, and there are at least 3 of them working on them. Current Ruana knives would be more akin to Randalls, CRK, or, to some degree William-Henry, in that they ARE hand made, but we might not be sure by which hands.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Maybe more like the Martin boys from Texas or the Loveless shop than Randall. Ruana is still a couple of guys banging out knives. To me, the difference with Randall is not so much how they produce their knives which has not really changed much over the years, but the way that their following has developed. They are fairly unique in the knife game. I saw this at the Gator Cutlery Club show last year,. Randall guys would check out my stuff and say "nice knives" but many of them would not even think about buying anything other than a particular Randall that was missing from their collection. Even the most hardcore Busse or Strider fans may not be that focused.
 
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Kohai999 said:
Up until a point, Rudy did, but now it is the Hangas family working out there, and there are at least 3 of them working on them. Current Ruana knives would be more akin to Randalls, CRK, or, to some degree William-Henry, in that they ARE hand made, but we might not be sure by which hands.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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There you go ................. discusion......... :thumbup::thumbup:

by who, what???? how much, how??????????? ... :confused:

You all KNOW.... :D





.
 
jdm61 said:
Maybe more like the Martin boys from Texas or the Loveless shop than Randall. Ruana is still a couple of guys banging out knives. To me, the difference with Randall is not so much how they produce their knives which has not really changed much over the years, but the way that their following has developed. They are fairly unique in the knife game. I saw this at the Gator Cutlery Club show last year,. Randall guys would check out my stuff and say "nice knives" but many of them would not even think about buying anything other than a particular Randall that was missing from their collection. Even the most hardcore Busse or Strider fans may not be that focused.
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You make a good point Joe in that a collector sticking to a certain collecting philosophy doesn't make him/her a snob.

I for example, appreciate/enjoy a wide range of custom knives from entry level to the top however I have a collection plan (not unlike a business has a business plan) which works for me. Snobbery has absolutely nothing to do with which knives/makers I buy or don't buy.
 
Joe,

It wasn't KN (Knife Network).....it was another site that was Blacksmith based. The owner of the site contacted me first about hosting a weekly Bladesmithing chat on the site, which I agreed to do. Right from the start it was obvious that a certain group of members felt threatened by the presence of Bladesmiths. They would deliberately give out bad information and say they got it from the "Bladesmiths", disrupt the chat sessions, and just generally do all they could to pains. I also helped the owner establish a sub-forum on the site for knives and bladesmithing....which these same individuals also kept attacking. After a several conversations with the site owner about the troublemakers, and asking to be given admin control for the hour I hosted chat there, he refused. I finally just decided that it wasn't worth my time and suffering. What it really boiled down to was the site owner was using me to try to draw more people to his site....for him it was all about the numbers. Anyway, I wanted to clear that up. It wasn't KN. KN has always been my first home o the net, and it always will be.
 
I don't know about snobbery....knife collectors to begin with are a small group and customs collectors an even smaller group. It has oft been said that you can "buy what you like", but run the risk of losing a substantial portion of what you paid, if you want to sell it down the line, and it is the "wrong" knife.

Obviously, if you purchased it use it, and do so, that is a different story.

As far as money...well, there were some superb knives back in the day for lower(read average production knife cost) cost, and still are. Wonderful knives by makers like Pat Crawford, Geno Denning, Ron Gaston, Corbett Sigman....and the list goes on...not just slab scales either many had/have the little extras like tapered tangs and guards as well...for $250 or less....I purchased a slab scaled, orange G-10 Bark River Recon-1 last year for retail price of around $150.00, and if it had been made in stainless it would be around $250.00....this fairly simple knife style could be had by any of the makers that I listed for the same monies or less, this is just an example.

If it comes off like snobbery, I think the biggest part is the amount of research and time we devote to our hobby....it can make you a little cranky. I have been snipped at by some great makers over the years for asking "dumb" questions....maybe they were exhibiting dick-like qualities, or maybe I should have put in some more study time....regardless it helps to develop a thick skin when you are dealing with a hand-made product, regardless of the area...try Japanese swords, now THOSE ARE some snobby SOB's, and why? It's not like they made them....No, it is the years and years of dedicated research discovering, and often sharing. small, seemingly unimportant details with no fanfare, or profit...just the satisfaction of learning something new.

Just my .02.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I don't know about snobbery....knife collectors to begin with are a small group and customs collectors an even smaller group. It has oft been said that you can "buy what you like", but run the risk of losing a substantial portion of what you paid, if you want to sell it down the line, and it is the "wrong" knife.

Obviously, if you purchased it use it, and do so, that is a different story.

As far as money...well, there were some superb knives back in the day for lower(read average production knife cost) cost, and still are. Wonderful knives by makers like Pat Crawford, Geno Denning, Ron Gaston, Corbett Sigman....and the list goes on...not just slab scales either many had/have the little extras like tapered tangs and guards as well...for $250 or less....I purchased a slab scaled, orange G-10 Bark River Recon-1 last year for retail price of around $150.00, and if it had been made in stainless it would be around $250.00....this fairly simple knife style could be had by any of the makers that I listed for the same monies or less, this is just an example.

If it comes off like snobbery, I think the biggest part is the amount of research and time we devote to our hobby....it can make you a little cranky. I have been snipped at by some great makers over the years for asking "dumb" questions....maybe they were exhibiting dick-like qualities, or maybe I should have put in some more study time....regardless it helps to develop a thick skin when you are dealing with a hand-made product, regardless of the area...try Japanese swords, now THOSE ARE some snobby SOB's, and why? It's not like they made them....No, it is the years and years of dedicated research discovering, and often sharing. small, seemingly unimportant details with no fanfare, or profit...just the satisfaction of learning something new.

Just my .02.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Good point about the swords, STeven. One thing that you can say about custom knives is that there are still a LOT of people both on the maker and collector side who are more than willing to educate a new person on pretty much anything that they want to learn about the knife game. I received two particular pieces of rather simple advice on this forum that I believe significantly helped me. Use 416 and try using sculpted "fighter" style guards instead of plate guards. Very simple suggestions, but they made a difference.
 
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