So if Busse is gonna use SR101 and the Yard is gonna use 5160...

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PatrickKnight said:
I dont know about outperform but I can tell you that SR101 will hold its own against 3V (take this with a grain of salt as I don't really care for 3V all that much). 3V does hold its edge longer but its such a pain to sharpen compared to SR101 the trade off isn't worth it for me.
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I carry diamond cards in my wallet, so blade shape is a much more limiting factor for sharpening than steel for me. I'm mostly curious about the toughness claims, as 3V is several times tougher than 52100 and offers much better impact resistance as well. I have serious doubts that the addition of chromium would change that.
 
Insipid, though I agree that 3v should be tougher than 52100, differentially ht'd 52100 could certainly make up enough of the difference that toughness would be much closer. Also, if Jerry did say it, it may have been in the early days of 3v where ht wasn't done as well as it may be today. I remember the days when cliff tested a 3v fehrman and the edge failed in short order. He did much worse with a custom 52100 and got better results. So early spotty ht in 3v could have an issue. Only a guess on my part.
 
Cobalt said:
Insipid, though I agree that 3v should be tougher than 52100, differentially ht'd 52100 could certainly make up enough of the difference that toughness would be much closer. Also, if Jerry did say it, it may have been in the early days of 3v where ht wasn't done as well as it may be today. I remember the days when cliff tested a 3v fehrman and the edge failed in short order. He did much worse with a custom 52100 and got better results. So early spotty ht in 3v could have an issue. Only a guess on my part.
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I was kind of thinking that. Basically, he could have said it, been entirely correct in the specific testing they performed and still had bad information overall.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I was kind of thinking that. Basically, he could have said it, been entirely correct in the specific testing they performed and still had bad information overall.
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not bad information as the fehrman failing part was certainly true, and I had a couple of custom 3V blades during that time that had serious edge chipping. This was in the early 2000's. I am sure the HT protocols have improved greatly. Busse HT is second to none and a lesser steel with better HT can outperform the better steel with inferior HT.
 
Cobalt said:
Busse HT is second to none and a lesser steel with better HT can outperform the better steel with inferior HT.
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True that. Then again, how much better does a "lesser steel" with a second-to-none heat treat need to perform than SR101 performs? I mean, if it performs well enough to stake your life on, isn't that good enough?

Insipid Moniker said:
The Swamp gets you great performance for your money, but if SR-101 can really outperform 3V in almost every aspect then they're almost criminally underpriced!
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Shhhhh. Let's not give the boss any ideas. ;)
 
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bld522 said:
True that. Then again, how much better does a "lesser steel" with a second-to-none heat treat need to perform than SR101 performs? I mean, if it performs well enough to stake your life on, isn't that good enough?
;)
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Well lesser is a matter of opinion. I certainly don't believe it is, but those that have not used either might. My experience with hard use 3V has not been so good. I do have a GSO 3V that I plan on using and I have heard it is an incredible performer.
 
Cobalt said:
not bad information as the fehrman failing part was certainly true, and I had a couple of custom 3V blades during that time that had serious edge chipping. This was in the early 2000's. I am sure the HT protocols have improved greatly. Busse HT is second to none and a lesser steel with better HT can outperform the better steel with inferior HT.
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I'd say 3V has came a LONG way from those days….. ;) :)

[video=youtube;jAFQAp3Fo9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAFQAp3Fo9I[/video]
 
Impressive. Still, the question remains. How tough is tough enough? And no, I'm not going to replace all my SR101 knives with 3V knives. For me, at least, SR101 is MORE than tough enough.
 
bld522 said:
Impressive. Still, the question remains. How tough is tough enough? And no, I'm not going to replace all my SR101 knives with 3V knives. For me, at least, SR101 is MORE than tough enough.
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I tend to agree, heck, 1075 and 420HC are plenty good enough for most of my outdoor fixed blade use so SR-101 is pretty much overkill. However, when claims like that are made I'm always going to be curious where actual empirical evidence would lead.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I tend to agree, heck, 1075 and 420HC are plenty good enough for most of my outdoor fixed blade use so SR-101 is pretty much overkill. However, when claims like that are made I'm always going to be curious where actual empirical evidence would lead.
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Simple…...get knives of the same blade length & specs in both steels, grind the edge to the same geometry and put them through the same testing.

Yet I'm sure this won't be easy finding knives that compare well in those steels….. :foot:
 
Red Angel Dragnet said:
Simple…...get knives of the same blade length & specs in both steels, grind the edge to the same geometry and put them through the same testing.

Yet I'm sure this won't be easy finding knives that compare well in those steels….. :foot:
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Actually, for the toughness question you would just need samples at the same Hrc to do some Charpy testing on. Edge retention would require multiple identical knives in the two steels and having CATRA testing done on them, so that's a whole different story.

Of course the first would require the samples or bits cut out of knives and the second would run multiple thousands of dollars to do, so those complicate things a bit.
 
Exactly. SR101 has been around long enough and proven itself well enough to give me the confidence I need to depend on it if the SHTF. That's good enough for me. :thumbup:
 
dingy said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSVs2LCZ-TQ

this guy is going to tells things straight and feedback good things about 3V.

i really want to know how about jerry would comments on this.
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This is an excellent comparison video of A2 and 3V. In fact that knifemaker stated he would be using A2 in all his knives after this test.

Lets look at A2
C = 1
Mn = 1
Cr = 5
Ni = .3
Mo = 1
V = 0.3

Lets look at SR101(with 5% Cr)
C = 1
Mn = 0.45
Cr = 5
Si = 0.35

There is a 2% difference in alloys in these steels. The main alloys are very close. Maybe by adding chrome to 52100, makes SR101 as tough or tougher than A2. Is it far fetched to believe that with a great differential HT it could be better? No, not in my opinion.
 
Cobalt said:
This is an excellent comparison video of A2 and 3V. In fact that knifemaker stated he would be using A2 in all his knives after this test.

Lets look at A2
C = 1
Mn = 1
Cr = 5
Ni = .3
Mo = 1
V = 0.3

Lets look at SR101(with 5% Cr)
C = 1
Mn = 0.45
Cr = 5
Si = 0.35

There is a 2% difference in alloys in these steels. The main alloys are very close. Maybe by adding chrome to 52100, makes SR101 as tough or tougher than A2. Is it far fetched to believe that with a great differential HT it could be better? No, not in my opinion.
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Also lets not forget Jerry started with A2 and has stated if he hadn't come up with INFI he would still be using A2 today. So I think its safe to say SR101 and A2 are probably very comparable.
 
PatrickKnight said:
Also lets not forget Jerry started with A2 and has stated if he hadn't come up with INFI he would still be using A2 today. So I think its safe to say SR101 and A2 are probably very comparable.
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considering the differential HT of SR101, I would bet SR101 is a shade tougher.
 
Cobalt said:
considering the differential HT of SR101, I would bet SR101 is a shade tougher.
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It would need to be more than a shade. A2 at an Hrc of 60 tests out at 53 joules in c-notch Charpy testing. At the same hardness 3V tests out at 95 joules.
 
The only part of a knife that will be increased by the DHT would be its ability to flex before breaking.

Also another thing to consider is that the Swamp has gone away from DHT. I believe Josh has even stated they saw no advantage to DHT over through hardening.
 
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