SoCal Mountain Lion Attack

Codger_64 said:
So... evacuate California and move everyone to Baja Mexico and let the lions re-expand their range? Or control populations to sustainable levels on the range they have remaining? As you can see, their natural inclination is to expand their range and supplement their diets with pets and people.
Click to expand...
I say leave them alone. When the random one strays into civilization around here they are shot dead. But up in the local hills? They belong there.
They very rarely attack people. When I hike up in the hills I am aware that they are up there but the odds of even seeing one (which I wish would happen) are pretty low.
Besides I like an older woman now and then; oh that is the other kind of cougar.:)
If we need to evacuate California for some reason I am certainly not going to Mexico.
Bill
 
Codger_64 said:
So... evacuate California and move everyone to Baja Mexico and let the lions re-expand their range? Or control populations to sustainable levels on the range they have remaining? As you can see, their natural inclination is to expand their range and supplement their diets with pets and people.
Click to expand...

Or simply eliminate all the large predatory game, because it is a pain in the ass to worry about the dangers they might present. As you can see, 'human's' natural inclination is to expand their range and supplement their diets with 3rd world natural resources :)

I'm not an absolute preservationist by the way, but I'm not convinced that a couple of german shepards gone missing is grounds for open season. The self defense clause is still in effect and if people have the luxury of living near a forested area and preserve they should be aware of the risks that entails.

Too bad, game doesn't have the equivalent of catch and release like fishing. A lot of fishermen I know have come around to a more balanced view of their resource impacts once they realized they can have their cake, but don't necessarily have to eat it to. Tranquilizer guns anybody?
 
I enjoy hunting and the population needs to be controlled so what's the problem with it, if you don't enjoy hunting don't.

Mountain lions are year round game in AZ all you have to do is buy an across the counter 11 dollar tag. There is still a huntable population, me and my hunting buddy were able to call in and kill a 100+ pound mature cat on the ground with no dogs. As far as I am concerned good fun and we helped maintain the predatory balance.

Regardless if the lions are dangerous, docile or a figment of the media's imagination, licensed sportsmen that would like to legally hunt them should be allowed too as long as the game population supports it. Chris
 
Runningboar,

I don't have any problem with hunting these guys when there is a history of game management in an area and good information supports the practice. I just get a little nervous when all the gung-ho types start crying for licensing of hunting a species in a new area because of a few nuasance issues. If the population warrents it, and there is sound biological information about the population then I am for it. U.S. Fish and Game though will make political decisions like any other beaurocracy and sometimes this comes before a critical mass of evidence is in place.
 
I don't think a few lion sightings, pet abductions or even attacks on people warrant a knee jerk reaction to hunt lions in that area anymore than I believe a dog bite warrants hunting dogs in the suburbs.

However, banning hunting a species because it is not normally considered edible or you don't approve of shooting treed game, even though that species population is stable, or even expanding and needs controlled, is as I said before, ignorant. Chris

EDIT: I am going coon hunting right now and hopefully shoot a big coon out to bake with sweet potatos for dinner tomorrow. Just like lions the coon has a sporting chance to evade the dogs and escape, if he doesn't, I am helping the gene pool by taking him out of it. ;)
 
runningboar said:
I enjoy hunting and the population needs to be controlled so what's the problem with it, if you don't enjoy hunting don't.

Mountain lions are year round game in AZ all you have to do is buy an across the counter 11 dollar tag. There is still a huntable population, me and my hunting buddy were able to call in and kill a 100+ pound mature cat on the ground with no dogs. As far as I am concerned good fun and we helped maintain the predatory balance.

Regardless if the lions are dangerous, docile or a figment of the media's imagination, licensed sportsmen that would like to legally hunt them should be allowed too as long as the game population supports it. Chris
Click to expand...

We now have a September 1st through May 31st season in most game management units. This was seen as a concession to the antis. The Mt. lion populations are very healthy in AZ. especially in the Tucson area. Good job on calling in a cat. What unit were you in? In SE AZ., 100-125 lbs. is a mature adult. By comparison, bobcats are about 18 lbs. max.

Reconranger- Look for the 3-lobed pad on the lion's foot to distinguish it from a bobcat.

Cougar, puma, catamount, Mt. lion, panther-its all the same cat.

GB
 
kgd said:
Yeah Codger - and dispersal happens. The adults set up their home ranges and they provide a propagule source. Problem is when none of those propagules survive as a result of insufficient habitat - you have a population bottleneck. Not extinct, no not yet, but going that way and losing genetic diversity at breakneck speed.
Click to expand...

Kind of. Male Mt. lions carve out home ranges and exclude all other Mt. lions. They will kill all intruding lions including females. The females have smaller ranges. Insufficient habitat can cause the young lions to move close to developed areas and become a nuisance or to move on.

Lack of genetic diversity hasn't been identified as a problem in most of their range. Population bottlenecks typically occur in species that are extremely low in numbers or species that cannot get up and move.

GB
 
Gerberblades said:
Good job on calling in a cat. What unit were you in? In SE AZ., 100-125 lbs. is a mature adult. By comparison, bobcats are about 18 lbs. max.
Click to expand...


Thanks GB, The cat was actually killed on Ft. Huachuca. We did a lot of predator calling and called in badgers, skunks, coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions the only thing we tried for but didn't see were ring tail cats. The lion was shot with a 256 win mag which is a bit light for lions IMO but the bullet was placed very well and the cat folded on the spot. Chris
 
I just check in since the post on pg1,
Codger,
The Mo. Dept. of Conservation link, when it comes to lions, must be taken with a grain of salt. They denied they were here for a long time, until that one was hit by a car by Fulton about 3 or 4 years ago. It is now stuffed and displayed in the Runge Conservation center in Jefferson City. Before that, when they were filmed they would say it was inconclusive.
I saw one in the winter of 94 by the Osage River,right after dawn, it had to duck to go under a 4 strand barbwire fence. I have seen enough bobcat to know the difference, it had a long tail with a black tip.
I have heard many other 1st hand sightings before that.

Buffuloehump,
I never said anything about hunting them to extinction.
You are obviously ignorant of what led to the ban on lion hunting in Ca. it was by popular vote pushed by anti-hunting groups. There was NO basis on biology whatever.
And predators have a way of losing the fear of humans when they are not hunted for a couple of (their) generations.

I will have to say that here, our Conservation Dept. is great, it is led by a commision that is not political, the decisions are based on biology. They have done good work bringing game populations back. A 1/8th cent sales tax was voted in when I was a kid, sometime in the 70's to fund it, and they do great work.
 
runningboar said:
Thanks GB, The cat was actually killed on Ft. Huachuca. We did a lot of predator calling and called in badgers, skunks, coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions the only thing we tried for but didn't see were ring tail cats. The lion was shot with a 256 win mag which is a bit light for lions IMO but the bullet was placed very well and the cat folded on the spot. Chris
Click to expand...

Chris-The .256 apparently worked fine. This 130 lbs. tom was taken east of Tucson recently without dogs or calling. The hunter was just glassing while whitetail hunting. Several have been taken in this area during this past year.

GB

Mtlion2.jpg
 
When animals are hunted, they respect humans and leave them the hell alone. Which is why black bears aren't That much of a problem in our Nat'l. Forests here in Calif.

When animals cannot be hunted, they rapidly become an arrogant, increasingly bold and an agressive pain in the a$$. Which is why black bears are a massive pain, in our Nat'l Parks here in Calif.

This has been my experience in hunting, backpacking, fishing and camping all around here. As well as the older, on duty Forest Ranger I talked with, near Dinkey Creek, who flatly agreed with me.

I think only the non-hunters will be surprised by this animal behavior. Any hunter who has been around the block knows the above to be absolutely true.

--------------

The people who had fun banning our mountain lion natural resource management (by hunting) were:
-Antigun Soccermoms
-Liberals
-Environmentalists
-Leftist busybodies
-Do Gooders
-Bunny Huggers
-City Folk (who live in a filthy/crowded/depraved environment and despise us well behaved rural folk as "ignorant.")
-Over Scrupulous kill joys who were mightily afraid that some uncouth, ignorant, unwashed bumpkin was having fun, somewhere.


Well, they removed our main tool for scientific management, mountain lion numbers couldn't be controlled, their numbers grew, they became bolder and more agressive, and discovered in their impudence, that they could eat joggers, bicyclists, kids, pets and strolling women, and nobody ever seems to shoot at them.

The anti-fun dogooders are wrecking our situation here. The last time I went to Millerton lake, a frightened family of Mexicans streamed past me, carrying an armload of rocks, as protection from the mountain lion they were fleeing.

I looked around uneasily, looked down at my fishing pole and lunch and said "Oh, greaaaatt.":eek:
 
I'll not try to list and catagorize the proponents of banning hunting on predator species, but the idea of "I say leave them alone" does not make a sound wildlife management plan. Overpopulation of a species (yes, for the carrying capacity of the remaining habitat) leads to inevitable conflicts between people and wildlife. Often, such proponents also suggest others giving up their homes/property to make room for more wildlife. Or lessening the population of humans. But I notice they don't offer up their own property/livlihood/lives upon this sacrificial alter. Or refuse to have children of their own. Meh.

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
I'll not try to list and catagorize the proponents of banning hunting on predator species, but the idea of "I say leave them alone" does not make a sound wildlife management plan. Overpopulation of a species (yes, for the carrying capacity of the remaining habitat) leads to inevitable conflicts between people and wildlife. Often, such proponents also suggest others giving up their homes/property to make room for more wildlife. Or lessening the population of humans. But I notice they don't offer up their own property/livlihood/lives upon this sacrificial alter. Or refuse to have children of their own. Meh.

Codger
Click to expand...
When I said leave them alone I was talking in terms of the lion population here in California; more specifically the Bay area. There are not that many that they need to be shot on sight or hunted down. When they stray into town they either get tranquilized and moved or shot.
I do agree that hunting keeps predators afraid of humans. So if the population is such that hunting will both keep the population at a manageable number and keep the lions weary of humans the that makes sense.
That is not the case her in California the lions are just making a comeback. They deserve to live here too IMO. When there is a healthy population lions then perhaps it will be time to hunt; in the bay area that would probably be Fish & Game hunters.
Decades ago people hunted all predators to near extinction in California as well as many game birds, ducks and game animals.
California used to have large herds of Elk, bighorn sheep, and deer. There used to be grizzlies and black bear in the Bay Area as well. All of this was managed poorly. Now some of these species are rebounding as in the case of the lions.
Yes they will need to be managed but they should also be allowed to return. If you choose to live on the edge of the woods then the deer, lions and bears should be part of what you expect to see.
I don't think that lions living up in the hills need to be hunted at this time.
By the way a lot of pets get taken by coyotes which are much more bold than the lions.
A similar attitude is why most species of sharks are declining; "shark are bad so kiil em all". That has proved to be wrong. Sharks have a place and yes they should be fished but overfishing was a mistake. So should you kill all the great whites of off Stinson and Muir beaches?
Bill
 
I don't want mountain lions and wolves tranquilized and moved out of Frisco.

I want them reintroduced to frisco. And hungry. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
 
BILLYM - "... That is not the case her in California the lions are just making a comeback."

Nonsense. The Mountain lions were NEVER in trouble in California. I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years, had a vacation home in the southern Sierra of Tulare County, with my property bounded on two sides by the Sequoia Nat'l. Forest. I and my wife spent many, many weeks up there. Bought the property in 1969 and sold it in 2000. I have hunted, camped, fished, hiked, etc., all over the State, many times.

There were plenty of deer in the many areas in which I hunted, while there was a season on Mountain lions. After the purely emotional ban on hunting them came about in 1972, the deer literally began to disappear. Places up in the Sierra and in the foothills where I and other hunters always saw deer, quickly had virtually none. Everyone who lived in those rural areas knew the Mountain lions were hammering the game herds.

People began seeing Mountain lions in places where they had NEVER seen them before. (Including just off Laurel Canyon Blvd. between Studio City and Hollywood, outside a school in Laurel Canyon.) I have seen three, up close and personal in the Sierra. I know a woman who lives in the Sierra who had one on her front porch one morning. A friend came out of his house one morning and found a lion lazing under his two ton truck. Another man I know who lived in a tiny crossroads "town" in Kern County was looking out his kitchen window late one afternoon where his two small kids and a friend were playing in the back yard and saw a Mountain lion in the brush, stalking his little kids. (I won't say what happened next, but suffice it to say the children were not attacked.)

Just because you're not seeing Mountain lions in Oakland or San Francisco, don't think they are "just now making a comeback" in the State. That's the leftist propaganda from the lying PETA freaks. There is a very, very large population of Mountain lions in the State and they are in no way, shape or form, afraid of humans anymore. Before the hunting ban, they were. Then, they were managed through hunting.

They should be hunted on a seasonal basis, just as they are here in Idaho, and the other western States. We have a very healthy population of Mountain lions here: they are hunted during a long season. The same should be the case in California... but because of the extreme left liberal makeup of the State, they will not be.

Does that mean there will be myriad Mountain lion attacks against people in Calif.?? No. But you'd better believe there will be SOME, which could have been avoided through logical management based on unbiased biological studies.

L.W.
 
Leanwolf said:
BILLYM - "... That is not the case her in California the lions are just making a comeback."

Nonsense. The Mountain lions were NEVER in trouble in California.
Click to expand...

LW- That is accurate. They are thriving in most western states.

Heres another lion from the same mountain range east of Tucson taken in spring of this year. I guess they aren't so rare after all.

GB

Mtlion3.jpg
 
digital9ja said:
Nice cat Gerberblades, that one looks very filled-out. Any idea what it weighed?
Click to expand...

Thanks. It was feeding on beef to a large extent. Cattle are somewhat slower than whitetail! I would guess it was >100 lbs. and was a mature tom. The southern AZ. lions don't usually have the weight that they have in the northern parts of their range like the north Kaibab Plateau.

GB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top