SOG's Official Response

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You don't really give all the facts, but started yet another anti sog flame thread...

I gave my reason for starting another SOG thread in an earlier post. Feel free to find it if you're really interested in my reason. I believe I gave all of the pertinent facts regarding the issues in question, namely that SOG has unethically copied a number of makers and manufacturers in one great swoop. I specifically left out my opinion in the first post and title. Would you care to point out any facts germane to the points of concern that I left out? I'd be glad to modify the 1st post to make sure that it's objective.
 
To me, only the Endura/Byrd look-a-likes are disgraceful to SOG. The Lum and the tanto don't bear enough resemblance to be considered a blind eye to previous designs by other manufacturers/designers. That is not to say that the SOGZilla and the 950 Rift copy aren't absolute abominations and shouldn't be taken off of SOG's 2010 catalog asap. They aren't even particularly pleasing designs. More like distasteful attempts to mimic the Endura blade with FRN Byrd handles. Same goes for the 950 copy.
 
To me, only the Endura/Byrd look-a-likes are disgraceful to SOG. The Lum and the tanto don't bear enough resemblance to be considered a blind eye to previous designs by other manufacturers/designers. That is not to say that the SOGZilla and the 950 Rift copy aren't absolute abominations and shouldn't be taken off of SOG's 2010 catalog asap. They aren't even particularly pleasing designs. More like distasteful attempts to mimic the Endura blade with FRN Byrd handles. Same goes for the 950 copy.

What about the Lum to the Boker and the Boker to the SOG?

Someone copied extensively from someone or we have a gargantuan coincidence which coincidentally happened in this decade :)
 
to be fair, creativity in design for knives can go only so far.
(everything is bound into the direction of a complete circle).
mass production of product's are firstly limited to the set budget of production cost and materials.
blade geometry is probably limited to fall within the scope of design purpose.
then when anyone actually start to design something like a knife it becomes obvious that there are only "X-numbers" of ways for anyone to hold/grip a knife.
the correct mix and match for any one specific marriage of purposeful blade patterns with optimum handle ergos will probably determine the soundness of a design.
and hopefully find instant favour for constant usage.
it's goes without saying that selling is a tough business especially when there are competitors vying for the same market (growing or shrinking, you decide).
cost factors and marketing philosophy will dictate how the end product will be sold or positioned. (make that low-end or high-end, if you will)
the easiest way to anything is to go with the flow.
when trend setters start the pace, others try to cash in on the rage.
it makes perfect business sense to tap the market with varients to choose from.
and the key factor is to make them even more appealing with a lower price bracket.
(so such practices do not affect the preception of entry level or novice budget concious buyers as only hard core collectors are quick in identifying "the original" from the fake).
blatant duplicates down to the brandnames and logos is the lowest point for any manufacturer, period.
it's different if the blade pattern or handles are generic in the traditional sense of the word. (like coocreese or currambits, machetes and bowies even).
the problem here i think is that, these blade designs haven't been around long enough to be considered a generic pattern.
hence the slightest likeness is probably going to be seen as a rip-off.
 
to be fair, creativity in design for knives can go only so far.
(everything is bound into the direction of a complete circle).
mass production of product's are firstly limited to the set budget of production cost and materials.
blade geometry is probably limited to fall within the scope of design purpose.
then when anyone actually start to design something like a knife it becomes obvious that there are only "X-numbers" of ways for anyone to hold/grip a knife.
the correct mix and match for any one specific marriage of purposeful blade patterns with optimum handle ergos will probably determine the soundness of a design.
and hopefully find instant favour for constant usage.
it's goes without saying that selling is a tough business especially when there are competitors vying for the same market (growing or shrinking, you decide).
cost factors and marketing philosophy will dictate how the end product will be sold or positioned. (make that low-end or high-end, if you will)
the easiest way to anything is to go with the flow.
when trend setters start the pace, others try to cash in on the rage.
it makes perfect business sense to tap the market with varients to choose from.
and the key factor is to make them even more appealing with a lower price bracket.
(so such practices do not affect the preception of entry level or novice budget concious buyers as only hard core collectors are quick in identifying "the original" from the fake).
blatant duplicates down to the brandnames and logos is the lowest point for any manufacturer, period.
it's different if the blade pattern or handles are generic in the traditional sense of the word. (like coocreese or currambits, machetes and bowies even).
the problem here i think is that, these blade designs haven't been around long enough to be considered a generic pattern.
hence the slightest likeness is probably going to be seen as a rip-off.

it's still possible to design a knife that isn't a total and obvious ripoff of someone elses design.

i was actually tempted by some of SOGs knives. until I realised that i was looking at other companies designs.
 
I think Kaizen1 explained enough and showed enough why it is a blatant copy.

As I said, one coincidence is probably accidental. But what if the

1) blade outline/shape (that's 1),
2) handle outline (that's 2),
3) handle texture (that's 3),
4) opening hole position and shape (I'll consider that as 4 instead of 4 and 5 to be nice :)),
5) description for the unique handle texture (that's 5), and
6) blade grind (that's 6)

That's for the Endura wannabe. Other rip-offs like the Warren Thomas tanto blade with laminate (chisel grind) and the Lum folder (with 1.the blade distinctive outline, 2.the swell of the handle forming a guard, 3.the slight curve of the handle that is almost delicate and even 4.the freaking notch in the handle for the framelock thumb access! :()

Enuff for now. I'm fine with defending some coincidences (like arc-lock with axis-lock for example) but sickening copies like this is obvious to the eye.
 
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Wow, thats lame. I guess there are only so many blade types/shapes out there before you start to copy somone elses design..be it deliberately or accidently.

But SOG has done it BLATENTLY.
 
I was going to suggest that the issue was blown out of proportion, until I saw 3Guardsmen's examples. That is the most blatant copy I have seen, short of the Chinese clones. :thumbdn::barf:
 
What about the Lum to the Boker and the Boker to the SOG?

Someone copied extensively from someone or we have a gargantuan coincidence which coincidentally happened in this decade :)

I didn't see the Boker before that post. The new SOG and that Boker are an even closer match than the SOGZilla to the Endura :barf:

However I still maintain that aside from the blade shape, neither Boker or SOG looks too much like the Lum design. Passable in my book. Boker -> SOG is definitely too close though. Honestly, both knives being not that popular, I don't think I would be able to tell them apart at a glance.
 
However I still maintain that aside from the blade shape, neither Boker or SOG looks too much like the Lum design.

The Lum design is unique. The harpoon like blade shape (In my opinion) is a unique design which gives the pointy half of the blade much strength as well as being aesthetically pleasing.

The handle swell which forms a guard is to prevent the sliding of hand into blade and sorta forms a guard (perhaps preventing blade sliding to hand like sword?). Lastly the subtle curve of the handle is to improve ergonomics from the usual straight handle.

I know what you're saying when you say the Boker and Sog don't look much like the Lum but just draw out the outline and you'll have a hard time distinguishing them apart (unless you have extensively studied the three folders but that's nit picking :)). As I said... Too many coincidences that it ain't funny.

It's kinda like I made a Sebbie with saber grind halfway up, used two spacers (instead of the Sebbie single spacer) and used a disc instead of thumb stud. I'd make a decent buck outta that and I'll just continue with other popular or unique designs. Lockback ZT200 anyone? :)

You can put horns on an orange but you can't call it a cow*.

* Horns on an orange doesn't change that it's an orange (I'm crap with making sayings...)
 
"You can put horns on an orange but you can't call it a cow*.

* Horns on an orange doesn't change that it's an orange (I'm crap with making sayings...) "

Thanks for injecting some much needed humor. :)
 
"You can put horns on an orange but you can't call it a cow*.

* Horns on an orange doesn't change that it's an orange (I'm crap with making sayings...) "

Thanks for injecting some much needed humor. :)

Thanks for appreciating :)

Though in threads like this I'm kinda negative, I always try to balance off with humor (or my desperate attempts of humor :)).
 
Just curious...how many people posting on these threads have actually owned a SOG knife? I own several: Spec Elite, Vulcan, Tomcat, and Visionary. These I would rate as some of the best folders available for the price. In the months preceding all of this I have noticed quite a bias against SOG. Always comments like "you can do better for the money" or "Maybe their almost as good as Benchmade's red class". These past comments are untrue and have shown a real bias. I agree that their new line sucks. I am not into blatant copying either (especially since I am a graphic artist). But all of your comments would carry more weight if you all were not already so negative about SOG from before.
 
Just curious...how many people posting on these threads have actually owned a SOG knife? I own several: Spec Elite, Vulcan, Tomcat, and Visionary. These I would rate as some of the best folders available for the price. In the months preceding all of this I have noticed quite a bias against SOG. Always comments like "you can do better for the money" or "Maybe their almost as good as Benchmade's red class". These past comments are untrue and have shown a real bias. I agree that their new line sucks. I am not into blatant copying either (especially since I am a graphic artist). But all of your comments would carry more weight if you all were not already so negative about SOG from before.

You're talking about two separate topics. If you're influenced by people's opinions on a totally separate matter, I think that has more to do with you than anyone else. That goes for anyone else mixing up the two topics. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
Just curious...how many people posting on these threads have actually owned a SOG knife?
As far as I can tell, in this particular thread(and in another too), the main point or goal is to state your position and publicly and loudly condemn SOG.
Preferably with bunch of red face and thumbs down icons to make the statement stronger...

P.S. Although, to be fair, not crediting the designer and using his ideas does suck.
 
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Hi folks -

I like my SOG, and the fact that they are using other designs as a starting point is not that big an issue to me.

I'll not boycott the company just because of this.

best regards -

mqqn
 
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